Please help a newbie in the US

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A few questions - ABS vs PLA. I know ABS makes sturdier prints, but the fumes are toxic while PLA makes "softer" prints but is biodegradable (supposedly). What determines what I can print? Is it the hotend? In other words, if I want to try my hand at building an i3 Rework, will I be limited to one type or the other, or will I be able to print using both materials?

Tool wise, I think the main difference between ABS and PLA is the heatbed. Both filaments would benefit from a heat bed, but you can get away without one if you are strictly printing PLA. I believe you will want to be careful switching back and forth between types, but as far as the hotend is concerned, the only difference is in the extrusion temperature. ABS is up to 230 C and PLA is around 200 C. You will want to make sure your thermistor is correctly measuring the temperature however, as the PTFE (?) that some hotends are made of has around a 230-240 C melting point.

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Also, would I be better off buying a kit like Dave's or a Printrbot for the support, or is it perfectly feasible to just wing it, source out parts, and build my own i3? Which is the more "economical" option?

Again, I would go with the Printrbot for the price (and a mentioned the potential resale value), though it might not hurt to ask the vendor a few questions before hand to develop a working relationship. Someone like Dave might be able to go the extra mile thanks to their lower sales volumes, though established brands like PrintrBot can also supplement tech support with established forums for answers to common questions.

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Last question (for now haha) - LCD screens and SD card readers - do any of the above models support that? These printers aren't small and I want to be able to print things bigger than 4-4.5" (I know the Simple only does that size, but at least has an upgrade option for later). Anyway, I'd like to build this in a room other than my tiny office. I can hook a laptop up to it if necessary, but having the ability to take files from my desktop, throw them on an SD card, and pop that into the printer in the other room would be handy. Actually wireless would be the coolest thing ever, but so far I think the only one I've seen with that option is a Makerbot model and that was "in the works."

LCD screens and SD card readers depend on the firmware and printer control board. As long as you stick with a Ramps 1.4 board, I don't believe you will have any issues. PrintrBot does have their own control board, and while I believe it uses the same firmware, it might require propietery connections for an LCD screen, though it might come with an integrated SD card reader. Definitely something to consider before going with PrintrBot as you might not be able to buy a cheap LCD screen knock-off.

As for a wireless connection, I believe OctoPrint running on a Raspberry Pi is an option, but I haven't done a lot of research on that yet. Forunately I have an old ASUS Netbook I have been using to run the printer as I am getting it setup and working.

The choice between a Printrbot and an i3 kit depends largely on what you want out of the machine. If you are doing small figurines in PLA a Printrbot could be the best choice. Regardless of the kit vendor an i3 will have good community support. The choice to build hinges as much on the ability of the builder as much as the support of the vendor in many cases. That said, plenty of us started from scratch and build using parts from where ever we could source them. Even a few years ago getting a complete kit was hit and miss. These days it's pretty easy.

For ease of using a screen and SD card a RAMPS solution has the most options though it's because of all the clones and availability of the specs and design. The Printrboard and RAMPS are different approaches to machine electronics. The Printrboard is meant to be lean and mean and low cost. The RAMPS is meant to be able to scale some features, use an off the shelf Arduino but that comes at a cost. Both are great places to start but in the long run I think a RAMPS will offer more in terms of expanding your printing horizons. For now you'll have your hands full learning the basics on either one.

For "headless" printing (without a computer) the most cost effective, reliable method is to save Gcode files on an SD card. You'll need a board with the SD and the display. You can do wireless printing with a RasPi or Beagle Bone in addition to the printer control board but I'd suggest one step at a time. Start with the computer hooked to the printer and once you get comfortable with that go to printing from an SD. You'd slice the 3D models (prepare them for the printer) on your computer, store them to the SD card using an SD card reader then transfer the card to the card slot on the machine and use the display to control the machine and load the file.

The quickest way to get up and going will be with the Printrbot. However, should you wish to grow the machine in terms of features and capability the best bet is an i3 variant.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2014 10:22PM by vegasloki.

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vegasloki
The choice between a Printrbot and an i3 kit depends largely on what you want out of the machine. If you are doing small figurines in PLA a Printrbot could be the best choice. Regardless of the kit vendor an i3 will have good community support. The choice to build hinges as much on the ability of the builder as much as the support of the vendor in many cases. That said, plenty of us started from scratch and build using parts from where ever we could source them. Even a few years ago getting a complete kit was hit and miss. These days it's pretty easy.

For ease of using a screen and SD card a RAMPS solution has the most options though it's because of all the clones and availability of the specs and design. The Printrboard and RAMPS are different approaches to machine electronics. The Printrboard is meant to be lean and mean and low cost. The RAMPS is meant to be able to scale some features, use an off the shelf Arduino but that comes at a cost. Both are great places to start but in the long run I think a RAMPS will offer more in terms of expanding your printing horizons. For now you'll have your hands full learning the basics on either one.

For "headless" printing (without a computer) the most cost effective, reliable method is to save Gcode files on an SD card. You'll need a board with the SD and the display. You can do wireless printing with a RasPi or Beagle Bone in addition to the printer control board but I'd suggest one step at a time. Start with the computer hooked to the printer and once you get comfortable with that go to printing from an SD. You'd slice the 3D models (prepare them for the printer) on your computer, store them to the SD card using an SD card reader then transfer the card to the card slot on the machine and use the display to control the machine and load the file.

The quickest way to get up and going will be with the Printrbot. However, should you wish to grow the machine in terms of features and capability the best bet is an i3 variant.

I think an i3 variant might be better for me, then. Considering the fact that I want to eventually add on an LCD, SD card reader, wifi controller possibly... point is, I want room for expansion. Can I also expand the size at which it could print? Actually, even if I had to build an entirely new model, I could reuse parts from an i3 that I may not be able to do with a printrbot, so that's another point in favor of an i3.

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Kurzaa

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A few questions - ABS vs PLA. I know ABS makes sturdier prints, but the fumes are toxic while PLA makes "softer" prints but is biodegradable (supposedly). What determines what I can print? Is it the hotend? In other words, if I want to try my hand at building an i3 Rework, will I be limited to one type or the other, or will I be able to print using both materials?

Tool wise, I think the main difference between ABS and PLA is the heatbed. Both filaments would benefit from a heat bed, but you can get away without one if you are strictly printing PLA. I believe you will want to be careful switching back and forth between types, but as far as the hotend is concerned, the only difference is in the extrusion temperature. ABS is up to 230 C and PLA is around 200 C. You will want to make sure your thermistor is correctly measuring the temperature however, as the PTFE (?) that some hotends are made of has around a 230-240 C melting point.

Quote

Also, would I be better off buying a kit like Dave's or a Printrbot for the support, or is it perfectly feasible to just wing it, source out parts, and build my own i3? Which is the more "economical" option?

Again, I would go with the Printrbot for the price (and a mentioned the potential resale value), though it might not hurt to ask the vendor a few questions before hand to develop a working relationship. Someone like Dave might be able to go the extra mile thanks to their lower sales volumes, though established brands like PrintrBot can also supplement tech support with established forums for answers to common questions.

Quote

Last question (for now haha) - LCD screens and SD card readers - do any of the above models support that? These printers aren't small and I want to be able to print things bigger than 4-4.5" (I know the Simple only does that size, but at least has an upgrade option for later). Anyway, I'd like to build this in a room other than my tiny office. I can hook a laptop up to it if necessary, but having the ability to take files from my desktop, throw them on an SD card, and pop that into the printer in the other room would be handy. Actually wireless would be the coolest thing ever, but so far I think the only one I've seen with that option is a Makerbot model and that was "in the works."

LCD screens and SD card readers depend on the firmware and printer control board. As long as you stick with a Ramps 1.4 board, I don't believe you will have any issues. PrintrBot does have their own control board, and while I believe it uses the same firmware, it might require propietery connections for an LCD screen, though it might come with an integrated SD card reader. Definitely something to consider before going with PrintrBot as you might not be able to buy a cheap LCD screen knock-off.

As for a wireless connection, I believe OctoPrint running on a Raspberry Pi is an option, but I haven't done a lot of research on that yet. Forunately I have an old ASUS Netbook I have been using to run the printer as I am getting it setup and working.

My head is spinning from all I've been reading. Haha. I thought ABS went up to 260C? Also, how does the printrbot handle being able to do both materials? Their user guide says it can do it and says all you have to do is set the temperature on the extruder to the proper one.

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LittleMike
My head is spinning from all I've been reading. Haha. I thought ABS went up to 260C? Also, how does the printrbot handle being able to do both materials? Their user guide says it can do it and says all you have to do is set the temperature on the extruder to the proper one.

I am still to new to know specifics, you are probably right about ABS. But I think the main difference between the two materials is the melting points, so it should be relatively simple to switch between the two materials while keeping the equipment the same. I believe that having a heatbed is extremely useful to keep ABS from warping or coming lose during the print, though recent reading over the weekend suggests that it might not be 100% necessary depending on the print and enviromental conditions.

But it sounds like you are leaning towards an i3 at this point, and I think you will be very happy with the decision. Good luck and let us know how everything turns out.

ABS can take higher temps [I've gone 50C or so above printability point], but PLA has a shorter span before it starts to crystalize and degrade.

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Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus

@Kurzaa - Thank you. Still trying to save up for parts. I did find an Arduino Mega 2560 R3 clone for $17 shipped. Is that a good deal? I am definitely leaning towards the i3

@MrDoctorDIV - Oh good to know ABS has higher tolerances. So PLA will naturally degrade or do you mean at too high a temperature? I think I would build a printer with a heat bed regardless, because if I'm not mistaken, it can benefit both materials.

Heated bed all the way, I've got one and I print almost exclusively PLA, it helps much.
PLA doesn't naturally degrade. It's biodegradable, but only in specific circumstances. Only degrades in this way if you reach too high of a temp. I believe it will become brittle, but I don't know for sure. Never had to go high enough to reach that point.

---

Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus

$17 sounds like a decent price for the arduino mega. When pairing it with the ramps board, I did have to trim a few solder joints on mine to get the board to fit over the mega's barrel connector, but I don't think it was a big deal.

And I am heavily debating myself on whether to pick up a heated bed for my Rostock or to wait and build a cartisian printer (i3) at a later date.