Ultimate All in 1. Looking for Input.
Posted by TechMuse
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Ultimate All in 1. Looking for Input. September 08, 2014 09:44PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2 |
So.. I'm brand new here. Long time lurker, first time poster. Thanks for reading, and even more thanks for your replies and thoughts. What I'm looking for as I'm sure some others may be interested in or perhaps already made strides in this direction, is an effective all in one printer (Think hello printer, but mastered). The wealth of information out there is extremely vast, and all very targeted for certain purposes. So I felt it would be more productive to make this a discussion rather than a solo brainstorm of which I'm likely not fully qualified. (MODS: feel free to relocate if better suited in another spot in the forum as I just took my best educated guess)
The goal of this idea, or rather; a cobbled together version of everyone elses better ideas.. is to have a single device that could be CNC style milling, laser engraving, laser cutting, and vast 3d printing options; Optionally a Filament extruder and even a scanner built all into one. I realize this is a daunting concept to dream up, but I cant be the first to have thought about it more seriously than the hello printer does, which would be too flimsy, has no base grips/vacuum to do actual cnc milling of wood or metals. No way to dispose of the milled waste ect. I also realize that if it can even be done, it would be difficult, and relatively pricey. I think it would be worth it if it could function as envisioned.
The features I'd hope to be able to see included are:
- Made of wood / metal brackets, box style (assuming this is the most sturdy option, without needing custom metal). Thinking Lexan or maybe plexi-glass as a see-through plywood of sorts for added stability
- It would Ideally have 4 or more extruders (Possible? I saw the rotary printer model (forgot the name) had 4. Handling as many plastic types / wood filaments as possible.
- The extruders would each have Laser cutting / etching in each extruder, as well as a quick swap (like 4 screws) cnc mill to replace / cover plastic extrusion when needed (Even just one CNC capeable bit In an elaborate extruder assembly would be great.)
- Would want a very large build space. Like 18"x18"x18" up to 2ft x 2ft x 2ft (is this a ridiculous pipe dream, or can it be done?)
- Heated Bed that could fit together to form one large bed or split apart to have 2 smaller beds (think hello super) So you could do one large project, or double up 2 projects simultaneously(this would require 2 of the heads be independent of the other 2, or all independent of one another, this is where I know far too little of the firmware side..) Hopefully this isn't an outrageous Idea, I'd assume it be plausible when starting with such a large 1.5' - 2ft in xyz build zone.
- Obviously adding a filament extruder and scanning features to this would be amazing.
- *Please Insert awesomeness here that I've yet to consider*
If I'm dreaming of completely unrealistic Ideas here. Feel free to 'give it to me strait doc'. Tho I hope among all of the reprap community of amazing innovators; this can be achieved!. Knowing that the alternative for simply having a huge build area can cost 10s of thousands of dollars to buy a ready to go printer. This should be reachable, as should it be open source. If accomplished we'd have beaten the professionals. Even they have not put out something this good yet, regardless of the price tag.
The goal of this idea, or rather; a cobbled together version of everyone elses better ideas.. is to have a single device that could be CNC style milling, laser engraving, laser cutting, and vast 3d printing options; Optionally a Filament extruder and even a scanner built all into one. I realize this is a daunting concept to dream up, but I cant be the first to have thought about it more seriously than the hello printer does, which would be too flimsy, has no base grips/vacuum to do actual cnc milling of wood or metals. No way to dispose of the milled waste ect. I also realize that if it can even be done, it would be difficult, and relatively pricey. I think it would be worth it if it could function as envisioned.
The features I'd hope to be able to see included are:
- Made of wood / metal brackets, box style (assuming this is the most sturdy option, without needing custom metal). Thinking Lexan or maybe plexi-glass as a see-through plywood of sorts for added stability
- It would Ideally have 4 or more extruders (Possible? I saw the rotary printer model (forgot the name) had 4. Handling as many plastic types / wood filaments as possible.
- The extruders would each have Laser cutting / etching in each extruder, as well as a quick swap (like 4 screws) cnc mill to replace / cover plastic extrusion when needed (Even just one CNC capeable bit In an elaborate extruder assembly would be great.)
- Would want a very large build space. Like 18"x18"x18" up to 2ft x 2ft x 2ft (is this a ridiculous pipe dream, or can it be done?)
- Heated Bed that could fit together to form one large bed or split apart to have 2 smaller beds (think hello super) So you could do one large project, or double up 2 projects simultaneously(this would require 2 of the heads be independent of the other 2, or all independent of one another, this is where I know far too little of the firmware side..) Hopefully this isn't an outrageous Idea, I'd assume it be plausible when starting with such a large 1.5' - 2ft in xyz build zone.
- Obviously adding a filament extruder and scanning features to this would be amazing.
- *Please Insert awesomeness here that I've yet to consider*
If I'm dreaming of completely unrealistic Ideas here. Feel free to 'give it to me strait doc'. Tho I hope among all of the reprap community of amazing innovators; this can be achieved!. Knowing that the alternative for simply having a huge build area can cost 10s of thousands of dollars to buy a ready to go printer. This should be reachable, as should it be open source. If accomplished we'd have beaten the professionals. Even they have not put out something this good yet, regardless of the price tag.
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Re: Ultimate All in 1. Looking for Input. September 08, 2014 11:15PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 790 |
It's entirely possible, but the amount of effort and diminishing returns of the results prevent any real common uses. Parts and structures that make things especially good for certain processes may decrease the effectiveness of other processes. For printing you want fast and lightweight, but for milling you want slow and sturdy.
FABtotum seems to have a good thing going on, closest to your idea that I've seen.
I plan on adapting my current build to be interchangeable to milling based on the same principles as FABtotum's but with more effort put into making it work rather than fitting it in a budget. Noting more, I'm no rich man.
Many people can give you plenty of advice on each individual function, but very few can give you advice on the harmony of all of them. If you go for this all in, you're going to have to do a large amount of the effort yourself. Research research research. Go into the very depths of why certain parts are made the way they are, the scientific basis for choosing the right ones; even if you don't remember it all it will give you the basic pattern for good engineering and why good things work well. I read a few scientific based papers on stepper motor selection with more math than my left brain, math and science niche self could handle or care to handle. I didn't do too much math, but I understood so much more how to select good stepper motors. Always research further than you need.
Good luck. That's the best I have to offer.
Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus
FABtotum seems to have a good thing going on, closest to your idea that I've seen.
I plan on adapting my current build to be interchangeable to milling based on the same principles as FABtotum's but with more effort put into making it work rather than fitting it in a budget. Noting more, I'm no rich man.
Many people can give you plenty of advice on each individual function, but very few can give you advice on the harmony of all of them. If you go for this all in, you're going to have to do a large amount of the effort yourself. Research research research. Go into the very depths of why certain parts are made the way they are, the scientific basis for choosing the right ones; even if you don't remember it all it will give you the basic pattern for good engineering and why good things work well. I read a few scientific based papers on stepper motor selection with more math than my left brain, math and science niche self could handle or care to handle. I didn't do too much math, but I understood so much more how to select good stepper motors. Always research further than you need.
Good luck. That's the best I have to offer.
Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus
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Re: Ultimate All in 1. Looking for Input. September 09, 2014 01:58AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2 |
Thanks for the response! Helped a lot actually. Basically what I just gathered from that is. If i wanted to combine milling and printing it would be best to have an entirely different system and support for for the milling aspect to have both work well. If thats the case one might as well just keep the CNC part separate. That being said. Is laser cutting / engraving not worth getting into either? Either way to make this work that would be the next thing I'd be willing to nix off the list. First and foremost its about the printing, the very large print space. Two print beds and 4-6 print heads, or maybe swapable print heads for say.. putting on an extruder that has been used for nothing except food safe plastic for instance. Its intriguing to think of other materials as well like clay, glues, ect.
I'd be interested to hear with what your ideas with interchangeable milling.. cus if it gets nixed from the Idea it would just be a future DIY project. If you're onto something good it could be better to go with your solution. Thanks again for the reply. I know most people saw 1 post and outrageous ambition and just laughed and kept scrolling. I'm just exploring my options on as much that can practically go into one device without getting to ridiculous with it. After nixing laser I'd want to drop the extruder next. Tho the idea of extruding your own spools for cheap , with a quick swap from one part of the printer to the other for printing would be quite interesting. Still not needed. The ones id have a real hard time parting with are the things mentioned above, and including the scanner would be a huge plus.
I'd be interested to hear with what your ideas with interchangeable milling.. cus if it gets nixed from the Idea it would just be a future DIY project. If you're onto something good it could be better to go with your solution. Thanks again for the reply. I know most people saw 1 post and outrageous ambition and just laughed and kept scrolling. I'm just exploring my options on as much that can practically go into one device without getting to ridiculous with it. After nixing laser I'd want to drop the extruder next. Tho the idea of extruding your own spools for cheap , with a quick swap from one part of the printer to the other for printing would be quite interesting. Still not needed. The ones id have a real hard time parting with are the things mentioned above, and including the scanner would be a huge plus.
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Re: Ultimate All in 1. Looking for Input. September 10, 2014 10:24AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 1 |
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Re: Ultimate All in 1. Looking for Input. September 10, 2014 11:49AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 790 |
I didn't find anything real there, it's still just a concept. I've seen many, many concepts of what this guy is looking for, I have yet to see a final build, fully functional with more than just print/mill and I've only seen a rare few of those and they all require more than just a quick swap to change function.
As I don't have experience with a reliable printer, I fully concentrated on that part of my build. I don't have a real plan on how I'm going to multi-tool my printer. So far it's not even as good as concept, just something I want to do in the future. OpenBuild's parts [I'm using to build my printer] are quite versatile and relatively simple and configurable, so it won't be as hard as some others as far as changing things to be interchangeable. I could see adding laser cutting a whole lot more easier than milling. The above build would find adding scanning easier than mine, with a round build plate they could simply make the plate rotatable and put a scanner to the side. I don't expect the milling to work like they want, though, deltas require a lot more adaptation to make strong enough to handle those forces without bouncing all over. Deltas are all about speed, not solid strength. They'll be trading off things to get it to work effectively, and speed may be what they trade.
Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus
As I don't have experience with a reliable printer, I fully concentrated on that part of my build. I don't have a real plan on how I'm going to multi-tool my printer. So far it's not even as good as concept, just something I want to do in the future. OpenBuild's parts [I'm using to build my printer] are quite versatile and relatively simple and configurable, so it won't be as hard as some others as far as changing things to be interchangeable. I could see adding laser cutting a whole lot more easier than milling. The above build would find adding scanning easier than mine, with a round build plate they could simply make the plate rotatable and put a scanner to the side. I don't expect the milling to work like they want, though, deltas require a lot more adaptation to make strong enough to handle those forces without bouncing all over. Deltas are all about speed, not solid strength. They'll be trading off things to get it to work effectively, and speed may be what they trade.
Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus
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