Clicking Extruder

I have got another problem with my printer. I have bought E3D-v6 all metal hot end. I managed it to kinda work properly i think but when i'm trying to print the extruder is clicking and the PLA is going very slow that it is not able to make a single layer. Changing temperature make no difference. It's the same at 185 and 230. I have installed a fan to cool down cold end and my PLA is Cold there. I have 0.3 nozzle , 0,46Nm stepper motor and MK8 drive gear. I'm using bowden extruder and using 1.75mm PLA. Any ideas what to do with it?

Does the extruder work with a different hot end? Is the hot end getting hot? Did you change the thermistor setting in your firmware?

Also what extruder are you using?

I can't check if the extruder is working with different hot end because i have only one hot end but PLA is pushed and it is not going backward.
The hot end is getting hot and melting PLA.
I'm using repetier and i picked 100k thermistor settings there(number 1 on the list).
And i'm using direct drive bowden extruder like this one [www.thingiverse.com].

You need to select option 5 for the thermistor if not mistaken. Some people have problems with PLA some not, i was never capable of printing PLA with my v5, but it is my standard one for ABS. Like any reprap thing, it need some tweaking to get it to work right.

I have changed my settings to ATC Semitec 104GT-2 thermistor ( it's nr 8 in repetier) and i see a big difference. I can semi print now but the clicking sound is not gone. While doing infil it clicks a lot and it clicks from time to time. And i cant print on temperatures lower than 220.
How about steps per mm in direct drive extruder?
i'm using 1.8 degrees 200steps per revolution stepper motor while using 1/16 microstepping with MK8 drive gear and i have 140 steps per mm Is this alright?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2014 12:28PM by AFK-er.

is the clicking the gears slipping or the motor skipping. perhaps power is turned down a little too low? another reason is feed stock may be having a hard time going thru the nozzle. up your temp by 10 deg c. does it help?

be sure that the temp is correct for thermisters. check thermister settings in firmware. if device has completely cooled it should show room temp about 20deg c when heater is off.

then also is there active cooling on the cold part of the hot end. this is extremely critical for stainless steel.

The motor is skipping but i think the power is high because it get a little warm now. when i print at 225 it click sometimes and while doing infil. When i print on 230 the PLA is to hot and starts to smell awful and slowly being black. It is showing room temperature when cooled (22 deg) and i have active cooling on cold end.

Turn the power up a bit, the worst you can do is overheat the stepper driver, in which case it'll shut down to protect itself.

I have changed stepper motor driver (Pololu - A4988) to a new one and it started working. The clicking sound is gone but i think that the extruder is not giving enough PLA or it's just not pushing PLA. Need to work on tightening the bolt because i think that might be the problem. I will report the results when i'll be back from school.
Including pictures of fail print
[imgur.com]


Stepper motor started clicking a lot when i'm trying to print at 0.3 layer heigh (same as my nozzle). And still something is wrong because every print is like on the photos.
So i tried loosing the bolt a bit but when it's loosen to much it doesn't push filament but when i tighten it to level in witch the filament is pushed it just grind holes in it and stops pushing it. What should i do?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2014 03:42AM by AFK-er.

you could also be over-tightening. if bolt is over-tight then the round feed stock becomes square, and is very hard to push thru round stainless steal.

How fast are you trying to print? Stick to 20 - 40mm\s to start and see how you go. I assume you have tried to calibrate your extruder? i.e tell your printer to extrude 100mm at a normal federate (40mm\s) and then calculate what the difference is, put this into your firmware. eg Extruding 100mm actually extrudes 75 - take your original steps per mm x 100 / 75 and enter this value into steps per mm. This will only work if you are not skipping steps. Try extruding slower until it stops skipping then cap your speed to that until you can find a higher torque stepper.


Many factors will limit your speed (how much molten plastic you can squeeze out). temperatures layer heights and nozzle diameter are all limiting factors
Hope this helps

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2014 02:22AM by Mickoz.

Thank you very much. I found that out around 2 days ago. I found my poroblem. It is the bowden extruder. I cant manage to push the PLA through the cable which connect the extruder with the hot end. I need to work on it because i found that when i keep the extruder close to the hot end without a cable it extrudes just perfectly. Have you got any ideas why it's so hard for the stepper motor to push PLA through the cable? I have got 1.75mm PLA and my cable(tube) have 2mm. And the stepper motor is very strong without this tube.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2014 10:38AM by AFK-er.

friction. if any angle is greater than 90deg it will be hard to push through. i would keep cable as short as possible, also very important that the first half of cable being fed into has a notch in it as a guide, and 3 inch tape around it to keep that part stiff and strait. look at images of bowden cables produced by ultimaker. then also consider switching to a knarled bolt as it provides more surface area and reduces dent force on feed stock. best method is a very strong spring to provide pinch grip force . you need one that you cant press together by your hand. this should increase your bowden efficiency.

I managed to change my tube to PTFE Tube 2mm inner. It seems to work kind of better but my extruder is still clicking. my steps/mm are correct temperature is right. It all looks like on the picture but the extruder is still clicking. My voltage is almost at max and i have cooling on my extruder motor too. And this clicking is still a stepper motor going back like it have not enough torque. What should i do now?

my stepper motor is SHINANO KENSHI STP-42D3003 with 0,46Nm

Pictures here [imgur.com]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2014 07:15AM by AFK-er.

Still found nothing. Anyone have any idea?

Would you have any audio recording of the sound your extruder makes?

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http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/

Here is the video. Sorry about the quality but the only camera that i have is my phone camera.


[www.youtube.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2014 12:37PM by AFK-er.

Quote
AFK-er
Here is the video. Sorry about the quality but the only camera that i have is my phone camera.


[www.youtube.com]

Hey, it's good enough, I recognize this problem from my own Direct Drive extruder!

What solved it for me:
- Cooling my J-head at the PEEK insulator
- Calibrating the power for stepper motor higher on the stepper driver
- Shortening the Bowden tube a little bit
- Giving the bowden tube a nice smooth and round bend

In the end I changed to another hotend, and still haven't had this again.

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http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/

Check for a clogged nozzle. Do a warm pull to try to pull out the gunk. For PLA you heat to extrusion temp and extrude a bit then cool to 80 degrees or so then shut off heat and pull the PLA out slowly. It will stretch but eventually the very end should come out as a plug including the little pit in the nozzle. Then take the nozzle off and check it visually. The hole should be totally clear. If it's not repeat the warm pull. Sometimes the grit is lodged tightly and you need to persuade it gently with a needle or something ,pushing it back into the heat chamber, to get it to come out.

A partially clogged nozzle will mimic all the other friction induced problems so it's best to rule that out before troubleshooting the rest of the PLA extrusion mechanics.

For the E3D V6 especially you also need a good fan and airflow. The heatsink should be cold all the way to the heat break. Also with PLA a little (very little) vegetable oil rubbed on the filament can help in the transition zone from heat break to melt zone. This is where a lot of PLA issues come from because PLA is rubbery and very sticky when transitioning from solid to liquid.

Also you might find that warm pull is very difficult with E3D V6 due to the way it's manufactured. I suggest pulling the hot end and taking off the fan and heatsink before doing the warm pull. Otherwise the PLA plug from the end of the nozzle can get very stuck as it pulls up the heatbreak and especially the heatsink.

My kossel mini made the same sounds when I tried to use a non-geared extruder motor.

My problem was solved by replacing the motor with an expensive geared extruder motor,
if you want a cheaper solution you can probably also use a 3D printed gearbox design!

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RS-Online Ormerod #263, Kossel mini with Minitronics, Prusa i3 MK2

Thank you for your reply. I managed to solve the problem by increasing extruder voltage a lot and installing fan on extruder motor.

Good to know that this direct drive design works for you!

My bowden tube is probably a bit too long and bended,
or I just wasn't brave enough to pump up the voltage

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RS-Online Ormerod #263, Kossel mini with Minitronics, Prusa i3 MK2

Still found nothing





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I have had this issue a lot using my QU-BD v9 extruder. From the get go it just didn't work without physically pushing the filament through it. I swapped out the drive gear, DIY-ed a PTFE lined barrel and managed to "force feed" print a filament tensioner found on thingiverse. I had not tried adjusting the voltages and such as suggested above, but I did attempt various print temps and the old stand by of frustrated yelling all to no avail.

My heated bed plays havoc on my Y axis slide bearings so I have not printed enough ABS to make this same discovery; however with PLA the clicking becomes a problem when the hot end is good and warm usually mid way through a print job. I found it to be due to the sugar base makeup of the PLA sticks to the hot metal nozzle and causes a damming effect in the tip. This in turn stops the flow of filament or decreases it enough to screw up the print and lets the extruder drive gear sit and chunk up the filament (or tie knots in the space between it and the barrel).

Lubricating the filament as it heads through the hot end worked wonders for me. I modified the printed filament tensioner to hold half a Q-tip that is saturated with canola oil. The Q-tip comes in light contact to the filament just above the drive gear and will wet out a portion of the plastic as it goes by. I'll add a drop or two to the barrel opening occasionally on a cold start but for the most part this works great.