State of PET filament printing
Posted by RRuser
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State of PET filament printing November 07, 2014 08:14AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 444 |
With the rapid adoption of newbie printers being used for the first time at home, dorms, schools, etc, it looks like PET filament is going to be the next logical step. However the hot end requirements seem to be all over the map.
Almost no odor, and almost no warp, and food-contact safe, are big draws for the newbie crowd printing in non-enclosed bots, maybe with non-heated beds. But are the new PET filaments really usable in these printers?
Some people say PET hot end temps need to be up there with nylon; others say they are down there with PLA. Some say a heated bed is needed; others say it's not. Some say the hot end needs to be all metal, because ptfe linings can't get hot enough.
What is being done nowadays, with what filament?
Almost no odor, and almost no warp, and food-contact safe, are big draws for the newbie crowd printing in non-enclosed bots, maybe with non-heated beds. But are the new PET filaments really usable in these printers?
Some people say PET hot end temps need to be up there with nylon; others say they are down there with PLA. Some say a heated bed is needed; others say it's not. Some say the hot end needs to be all metal, because ptfe linings can't get hot enough.
What is being done nowadays, with what filament?
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 07, 2014 08:16AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 2,470 |
I am printing PET @ 220 C° and i think it is a very versatile and promising material. The downsides are that it is not very stable at higher environment temperatures and it seems to become a bit brittle over time.
[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]
[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 07, 2014 08:34AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 439 |
There exists a certain amount of confusion between PET and copolymers of PET such as PETG and T-glase. Different copolymers have widely different requirements.
PET has similar requirements to PLA. For PETG I use a 100°C bed and 245°C hotend.
I have seen both PET and PETG advertised for sale as T-glase whereas T-glase is poly(ethylene-co-trimethylene terephthalate) (PETT) which seems generally more expensive.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 08:48AM by Ralph.Hilton.
PET has similar requirements to PLA. For PETG I use a 100°C bed and 245°C hotend.
I have seen both PET and PETG advertised for sale as T-glase whereas T-glase is poly(ethylene-co-trimethylene terephthalate) (PETT) which seems generally more expensive.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 08:48AM by Ralph.Hilton.
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 07, 2014 12:18PM |
Admin Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,096 |
Quote
Srek
I am printing PET @ 220 C° and i think it is a very versatile and promising material. The downsides are that it is not very stable at higher environment temperatures and it seems to become a bit brittle over time.
Is this with the Merlin hotend, and could you show us some pictures of it? As I hear it has the same requirements as PLA almost, does this mean PET prints on Kapton?
I would like to try PET, as I think it is stronger than PLA.
One more thing, I realize that PET is probably cheaper than PLA, yet, the Dutch resellers here all sell it for twice the price of PLA/ABS. They call it 'specialty filaments'. I call it bull. (Actually after writing this I found a reseller that sold it for FOUR times the PLA/ABS price.. what the hell!?).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 12:37PM by Ohmarinus.
http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 12:26AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 444 |
In the US, there seems to be a new formula XT...
"High strength and very high toughness, Odor Neutral processing, High Tg / improved temp. resistance, Styrene free formulation, FDA food contact compliance, BPA (Bisphenol A ) free formulation"...
[www.printedsolid.com]
"High strength and very high toughness, Odor Neutral processing, High Tg / improved temp. resistance, Styrene free formulation, FDA food contact compliance, BPA (Bisphenol A ) free formulation"...
[www.printedsolid.com]
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 01:30AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 2,470 |
I print PET on glue stick or sometimes simply on very clean glas. Sorry, i currently don't have any prints available to make images of. You can see the parameters i use for the different materials on my merlin blog - see signature below.
[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]
[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 05:50AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 439 |
Here is some reasonably priced PETG in EU [reprap.me] .
I haven't tried it and the temperatures suggested seem far too low for PETG.
I pay slightly less from China. [www.ecoreprap.com]
You need to email them to buy it. I pay $18/kg + shipping + customs
It prints fine on clean glass. It is definitely a lot stronger than PLA and not brittle.
I haven't tried it and the temperatures suggested seem far too low for PETG.
I pay slightly less from China. [www.ecoreprap.com]
You need to email them to buy it. I pay $18/kg + shipping + customs
It prints fine on clean glass. It is definitely a lot stronger than PLA and not brittle.
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 06:54AM |
Admin Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,096 |
Quote
Ralph.Hilton
Here is some reasonably priced PETG in EU [reprap.me] .
I haven't tried it and the temperatures suggested seem far too low for PETG.
I pay slightly less from China. [www.ecoreprap.com]
You need to email them to buy it. I pay $18/kg + shipping + customs
It prints fine on clean glass. It is definitely a lot stronger than PLA and not brittle.
Ah, reprap.me is nice, for two rolls of PETG I pay 68.49 US Dollar all in. (55 euros).
But PETG is not PET. It's still quite cheap compared to the prices in my country.
What are the major differences between PET and PETG besides the obvious G? I have been looking for it, but there is not much clear about it in terms of warp and printing ease. Will it stick on Kapton? I've managed to get my PLA and ABS both stick on kapton fairly well.
http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 07:21AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 439 |
I haven't tried it on kapton as it prints well on plain glass. I only get warping on large prints - 200mm x 190mm x 60mm and it is much less than PLA.
Print cooling seems to have no effect on that small amount of warping. It has a stronger texture than PET with a slight resilience rather than brittleness.
PETG needs higher temperatures for the bed and hotend.
Print cooling seems to have no effect on that small amount of warping. It has a stronger texture than PET with a slight resilience rather than brittleness.
PETG needs higher temperatures for the bed and hotend.
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 07:44AM |
Admin Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,096 |
Quote
Ralph.Hilton
I haven't tried it on kapton as it prints well on plain glass. I only get warping on large prints - 200mm x 190mm x 60mm and it is much less than PLA.
Print cooling seems to have no effect on that small amount of warping. It has a stronger texture than PET with a slight resilience rather than brittleness.
PETG needs higher temperatures for the bed and hotend.
I saw it takes from 210 to 235. I hope my Merlin hotend can handle it
Meanwhile I'm designing a Sterling engine. I hope PETg is a nice material for it. Sadly can't get it in 'clear' at reprap.me
http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 08:12AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 439 |
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 09:53AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 444 |
I think that T-Glase is PETG.
Here is a summary so far of PET:
Also known as polyester
No shrinking or warping
No smell
Does not degrade in water
FDA approved for food contact
Does not absorb water
Not brittle
Is the most recycled plastic
Made Solid - from Matter Hackers, in California USA:
[www.matterhackers.com]
Made Solid - from California USA:
[shop.madesolid.com]
Colorfabb XT - from Netherlands:
[colorfabb.com]
Colorfabb XT - from Printed Solid, in Deleware USA:
[www.printedsolid.com]
Taulman T-Glase - from Matter Hackers, in California USA:
[www.matterhackers.com]
Eco PETG - from China (must email to order):
[www.ecoreprap.com]
Reprap PET - from Denmark:
[reprap.me]
Here is a summary so far of PET:
Also known as polyester
No shrinking or warping
No smell
Does not degrade in water
FDA approved for food contact
Does not absorb water
Not brittle
Is the most recycled plastic
Made Solid - from Matter Hackers, in California USA:
[www.matterhackers.com]
Made Solid - from California USA:
[shop.madesolid.com]
Colorfabb XT - from Netherlands:
[colorfabb.com]
Colorfabb XT - from Printed Solid, in Deleware USA:
[www.printedsolid.com]
Taulman T-Glase - from Matter Hackers, in California USA:
[www.matterhackers.com]
Eco PETG - from China (must email to order):
[www.ecoreprap.com]
Reprap PET - from Denmark:
[reprap.me]
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 10:44AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 560 |
What I want is PET like plastic bottles are make of, melting point closer to 260C, not these lower temp variants. Have run some shredded bottles through my filament extruder, but is very hard to get consistant diameter, still testing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2014 10:45AM by Dirty Steve.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2014 10:45AM by Dirty Steve.
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 11:12AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 439 |
T-Glase is PETT. It says so on the label [www.matterhackers.com] .
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 06:07PM |
Admin Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,096 |
This is actually PETG and not PET. Sadly they only have colored PETG while I am looking for natural...
http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 08, 2014 08:46PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 76 |
Quote
Dirty Steve
What I want is PET like plastic bottles are make of, melting point closer to 260C, not these lower temp variants. Have run some shredded bottles through my filament extruder, but is very hard to get consistant diameter, still testing.
That's something I want to try as well. What I originally wanted to do was to design an extruder to take a strip cut from a bottle or jug directly so that some of the degradation of the pet, strength wise it's supposed to lose some every time it is remelted, would be lessened. At this point after seeing some of the filament extruder designs I might go with shredding anyhow just to be able to use the same extruder that I use for ABS.
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 17, 2014 07:57PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 13 |
I have PETG samples at end of this week. If anyone interested (in USA), contact me for a free sample.
I might have a few full spools available this week but my bulk freight comes in December. You can google esun petg filament to find some comments about our PETG. PETG is very good and has a combined advantages of both PLA and ABS. PETG is similar to colorfabb xt but different to PET/PET+.
Here is our announcement:
http://intservo.com/blogs/news/17937971-esun-s-new-product-petg-with-high-toughness-and-impact-strength
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
I might have a few full spools available this week but my bulk freight comes in December. You can google esun petg filament to find some comments about our PETG. PETG is very good and has a combined advantages of both PLA and ABS. PETG is similar to colorfabb xt but different to PET/PET+.
Here is our announcement:
http://intservo.com/blogs/news/17937971-esun-s-new-product-petg-with-high-toughness-and-impact-strength
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 17, 2014 10:36PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 444 |
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 17, 2014 11:28PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 13 |
Yes it is possible with non-heated bed, although a heated bed is preferred.
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 17, 2014 11:35PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 444 |
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 17, 2014 11:44PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 13 |
Likely next week we will see more and more petg reviews/comments when people get this stuff in hands. I will check with them and share here.
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 18, 2014 10:56AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 439 |
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Re: State of PET filament printing November 23, 2014 09:39AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 13 |
Some updates on first-hand experience with eSUN PETG. All use heated bed so far.
http://forum.makergear.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1615&start=40
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
http://forum.makergear.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1615&start=40
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
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Re: State of PET filament printing December 27, 2014 05:01PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 2 |
Hi,
if you want PETG transparent please contact me at
info at filoalfa3d dot com
or my personal mail
antonio.berera at gmail dot com
I started to produce PETG filament neutral and coloured in both 1.75 and 2.85mm diameter
I personaly print it for testing on kapton tape on heated bed 60-70°C
I can make large prints, up to 250x250mm, the maximum for my test printer, withou any lifting or wrapping.
The print temperaure is 240-245°C you can go higher, up to 270°C but you'll get a brittle part.
I don't use fan while printing if I want to have a more transparent result.
I tried to paint with two components transparent paint a spiralized vase and I got glass clear vase.
The raw material I use has FDA declaration, I don't extrude it in an FDA environment, as it's not probaly the environment wher you're going to print your parts.
Don't look at it on our website because it'll be posted after the 12th of January.
if you want PETG transparent please contact me at
info at filoalfa3d dot com
or my personal mail
antonio.berera at gmail dot com
I started to produce PETG filament neutral and coloured in both 1.75 and 2.85mm diameter
I personaly print it for testing on kapton tape on heated bed 60-70°C
I can make large prints, up to 250x250mm, the maximum for my test printer, withou any lifting or wrapping.
The print temperaure is 240-245°C you can go higher, up to 270°C but you'll get a brittle part.
I don't use fan while printing if I want to have a more transparent result.
I tried to paint with two components transparent paint a spiralized vase and I got glass clear vase.
The raw material I use has FDA declaration, I don't extrude it in an FDA environment, as it's not probaly the environment wher you're going to print your parts.
Don't look at it on our website because it'll be posted after the 12th of January.
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Re: State of PET filament printing January 13, 2015 08:57PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 13 |
I got PETG in stock now. Priced very low.
Please use discount code to check out: REPRAP10OFFALL
The code gives 10% off entire catalog, including the new PETG.
Thanks,
William
www.intservo.com
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
Please use discount code to check out: REPRAP10OFFALL
The code gives 10% off entire catalog, including the new PETG.
Thanks,
William
www.intservo.com
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
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Re: State of PET filament printing January 27, 2015 10:48AM |
Admin Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,096 |
Okay, decided to bite the bullet, ordered a spool of transparent PETG filament today from mtb3d.com (35 euro/kg was just as expensive for me if I had ordered it at reprap.me since there they add 13 euros for delivery and I had to order black filament from MTB3D anyway and total delivery cost were 3,95 there for me since I am Dutch).
Hope it will be here in a few days, will let you guys know how it turns out soon
http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
Hope it will be here in a few days, will let you guys know how it turns out soon
http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
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Re: State of PET filament printing January 27, 2015 11:09AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 13 |
PETG is available on Amazon.com too (search "esun petg" there). or click below link:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=esun+petg
For new users, you can use discount code PETGNEWC on your first petg order there. 10% off.
Please reference below posting for detailed discussion of this great material:
http://forum.makergear.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1615
/William
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=esun+petg
For new users, you can use discount code PETGNEWC on your first petg order there. 10% off.
Please reference below posting for detailed discussion of this great material:
http://forum.makergear.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1615
/William
eSUN distributor in USA: [www.intservo.com]
Amazon Storefront: [amzn.to]
PETG available!
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Re: State of PET filament printing January 27, 2015 11:17AM |
Admin Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,096 |
You know there is a place for commercial posts right? All these 'in-between' posts are ruining the 'flow' of this post, it's meant as informative, and not as a topic where sellers can nonchalantly insert some link to their products.
I repeat, for those interested in the main theme of this topic:
Okay, decided to bite the bullet, ordered a spool of transparent PETG filament today from mtb3d.com (35 euro/kg was just as expensive for me if I had ordered it at reprap.me since there they add 13 euros for delivery and I had to order black filament from MTB3D anyway and total delivery cost were 3,95 there for me since I am Dutch).
Hope it will be here in a few days, will let you guys know how it turns out soon
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2015 11:19AM by Ohmarinus.
http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
I repeat, for those interested in the main theme of this topic:
Okay, decided to bite the bullet, ordered a spool of transparent PETG filament today from mtb3d.com (35 euro/kg was just as expensive for me if I had ordered it at reprap.me since there they add 13 euros for delivery and I had to order black filament from MTB3D anyway and total delivery cost were 3,95 there for me since I am Dutch).
Hope it will be here in a few days, will let you guys know how it turns out soon
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2015 11:19AM by Ohmarinus.
http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
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Re: State of PET filament printing January 28, 2015 11:26AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 135 |
Really the only thing that excites me about printing PET is making filament from recycled soda bottles. Finding out that there are multiple different kinds with very different printing characteristics makes me a little wary, since they all have the same recycling code. Is there any reliable way to figure out just what kind of bottle is made of what kind of PET?
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Re: State of PET filament printing January 28, 2015 11:34AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 439 |
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