Large Custom Swedish Plotter Machine HELP NEEDED

Here is a rare and interesting project to get involved in.

Task: Get a 15 year old cutter/plotter machine to work again with modern Software.



PART A: BACKGROUND Read below for the story, Skip ahead to PART B for the Technical Details
At my father in laws gravestone business in Sweden they have a custom built plotter machine that is gathering dust and really needs some love to get working again.
It was custom made around year 2000-2002 by a Swedish company that went under. I could not find any information about that company (MSG Teknik AB ) except that it existed.



They originally had a stone covered in sand blast tape under the machine and it would use a knife head to cut out the text from the tape. It was not worth it for them and they went back to doing it by hand, as they have for 100 years and 3 generations.

PART B: TECHNICAL

HARDWARE:
The only outputs/input on this machine are as follows.


1. Power in
2. 25 prong cable.
3. On/Off Switch


Motor Details

Cutter Head Motor

Heres what we got going on on the inside:



PART C: SOFTWARE/ HARDWARE TESTING



The old software/computer used to run this machine requires code writing ability that I don’t have. I turned on this computer once and couldnt figure out any commands to get it to do anything.
Power Cable: Plugged in cable and got a red light from the on switch. Machine makes sounds.
Motors: I pressed on the cutter head and got it to move up and down Z Axis.
25 Prong Cable: Used a 25 prong-USB adaptor and plugged into my macbook pro. Labtop didnt recognize machine.

PART D: NEXT STEP

How can I get this machine to accept modern software commands?
How can I get my macbook to recognize the machine/which program should I use to link to the machine?

God Jul Från Sverige!

... I'll use the hardware+motors only and replace the electronics by modern types ... did this sort of 'refurbishing' for old Isel-gantrys several times in the last 30 years with then 'modern' or actual electronics+software

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

This looks much like a setup similar to those used with LinuxCNC. Some custom software doing bit-banging (turning individual pins on and off quickly) on the parallel port. Using a Mac is no option then, you need a PC with custom (realtime) operating system and a real parallel port. USB adapters don't allow bit-banging. linuxcnc.org has more information on that, an old Pentium III or the 486 in the picture should be easily up to the task. LinuxCNC has better motion control (e.g. jerk-less lookahead) than any RepRap firmware.

When replacing parts of the electronics you can still use the stepper drivers if they accept Step and Dir signals, like Pololus. Old electronics needing much more space is no issue, I guess, so there's not much need to replace that. It should be possible to connect them to any RepRap controller.

Seeing that these stepper motors need just 1.7A * 1.8 ohms = 3V, even a DRV8825-based Pololu should be sufficient. Assuming they're 4-wire types. To try, simply make a plug and connect them to the printer you already have. Pololus can do microstepping, these old drivers very likely can't.

---

Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

The 25 pin plug is likely a serial port and it likely accepts standard serial port plotter commands of that time (cursed more than a few of them in my time....).

While you might be able to find some old software to try and run it, the suggestions above to just try and salvage the frame, motors and heavy metal while scrapping the control electronics is your best bet (and you state that is your actual goal anyway).

"When replacing parts of the electronics you can still use the stepper drivers if they accept Step and Dir signals, like Pololus. Old electronics needing much more space is no issue, I guess, so there's not much need to replace that. It should be possible to connect them to any RepRap controller."

Hey Traumflug,

I got one of the guys to start up the machine and show me some things. One of the commands he typed in was " Dir" meaning "Directory". Is that what you meant be Step and Dir?

Also I have no experience with RepRap controllers, or controllers period. Could you explain this next part for me more simply?

Also What is Pololus? And what did you mean by "Connect them to the printer I already have"?

"Seeing that these stepper motors need just 1.7A * 1.8 ohms = 3V, even a DRV8825-based Pololu should be sufficient. Assuming they're 4-wire types. To try, simply make a plug and connect them to the printer you already have. Pololus can do microstepping, these old drivers very likely can't."

What did you use the machines for VDX? Im thinking about converting it into something useful for them but I dont know what yet. I dont think it will have any impact as a plotter/cutter anymore. What type of machines can be made with this setup? CNC? 3D Printer? Laser Cutter?

dclarkm, "The 25 pin plug is likely a serial port and it likely accepts standard serial port plotter commands of that time "

Do you mean the same Step and Dir commands that Traumflug is talking about?

Traumflug was talking about electrical signals which are used to interface with stepper motor drivers, the "dir" signal controls the direction of movement and the "step " signal is pulsed once to make the motor move a step in that direction. They are *not* commands that are typed in. A pololu is one type of stepper motor driver board that would accept these signals.

Old plotters used to take commands in a language such as HPGL: [en.wikipedia.org]

Nowadays 3D printers used "G codes" to control how the print head moves: [en.wikipedia.org]

Hope this helps a bit!
Cheers,
Robin.

Could just be DOS, is there a prompt of any sort? Something like "C:\" on the screen before you type?

Speedeep: He said it was DOS, but i didnt know if that was an exclusively Swedish system or not. So yes it is DOS

I can not believe it, Ficus, am I reading wrong or is that a DOS operated PC still working though the folks seem to have forgotten the name of the batch file or application to start for the engraver?
Attention: Dust might have accumulated in the power supply or even the case by other entries, so that the PC might suffocate from heat soon.
So if it is some version of DOS it says so when you type in "ver" at the prompt (which probably is "C:\>" or "C:\DOS" - without my "-symbols of course - or some other name instead of DOS).
BTW: DOS does not mind whether you write ver, Ver, VeR, VER or veR or else.
Might even be a Windows 3.x or GEM machine though then it should normally give you a windowed screen, Windows 98 and successors are out of question.
Do you know your DOS commands by now? Else why not post a few screenshots of the message you get when entering "PATH" at the prompt and/or the directories contained in C:\ by typing "dir C:\ /p" (p standing for pagewise) and taking pictures every time you hit the space key (not with a hammer and chisel of course).
OR try and enter "win" at the prompt and maybe you get windows or some message other than "invalid command or file name" or "command not found" or whatever that used to be.

Let's see what you have.

(hope i did not leave any typo's after the third edit )
G.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2015 04:33AM by GeeBee.

Quote
GeeBee
Attention: Dust might have accumulated in the power supply or even the case by other entries, so that the PC might suffocate from heat soon.

This seems pretty important to me, after peeking at your pictures. I would give the whole thing a good de-dusting, preferably after taking any covers or shileds off, before you attempt to actually use it. Dust can cause the electronics and heatsinks to not work as well or die.

Either way, it looks super cool! Good luck with the project

---

Blue Ice

blog at [contemporarymaker.com]

Here are my screen shots for the commands and answers. As you can see it is MS DOS Ver 3.30



Other than that all the other commands did nothing. But I inquired more about it with the crew and we got some progress!
With the "start" command we go to this main menu:



But there is a "manual steering" mode which led us to getting the first breaths out of this beauty.

We got the machine to work in manuel steering mode, which is an option under "Orderbearbeting"

By pressing the page up and down keys and the arrow keys you can move on the x and y axis.

X Axis: Arrow Keys "<" and ">" = 4mm
"Home" key and "Page up" key = 100mm

Y Axis: Arrow Keys "^" and "down" = 4mm
"page up" and "End" =100mm

I have a video of it but im not sure how to post it here on the forum, any suggestions?

Linked Youtube video upload would probably work best.

---

http://www.i3d.ro

... check the files with "DIR" - there should be a batchfile called "START.BAT".

With "EDIT START.BAT" you should be able to see, where the relevant files and paths are located ...

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]