In regards to Patents and Protection.

In regards to patents.

I have been reading alot of patents.


.) Does the original creator of an innovation have an advantage of someone who files a patent months later?

.) What sort of proof should a creator take to document their work, without using patents, and still protecting the creators.

.) Would the open-source method of open-collaboration[tm] count as proof of initial conception of an innovation?

.) If we have any patent lawyers in the house, maybe you can help.
What protection does a creator have?

.) The only protection i can think of is private development, and then hit the market fast and hard.

.) Or do we hit the market fast and hard with innovation and follow with finer open-development...?

I think you need to talk to a lawyer about these things, any advice given here would be trivial, and should not be taken as advice for what you are trying to accomplish.
Also this site is about open development, and GNU licensing.

From what I understand, in the US, the first to file has priority for a patent. It sounds like what you are really asking about is how can an open source developer keep from having his own technology patented out from underneath him, locking him out of his own development. In recent discussions on this forum, it seems that the US patent office does not automatically consider innovations posted on internet forums and wikis as prior art. (I suspect in the US Patent Office's view, the internet is a great swamp of half-baked ideas that no legitimate company can be expected to wade through.) Keeping a dated development notebook is certainly a good idea, but I don't know that would protect you necessarily. Having your idea "reduced to practice" (ie,actually built), and then publishing it as widely as possible would help eliminate the claim that it was too obscure to count as prior are. However, actually making something and then selling it as a product would make it nearly impossible to refute it as prior art.

One method that has not changed for prior art is to mail specs, plans, drawings and such to yourself as certified mail and never open it. If sealed they can be used in court as proof of prior art. Of course this must be done in advance and should contain the same full information as a patent does, just a vague description won't cut it.

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tmorris9
One method that has not changed for prior art is to mail specs, plans, drawings and such to yourself as certified mail and never open it. If sealed they can be used in court as proof of prior art. Of course this must be done in advance and should contain the same full information as a patent does, just a vague description won't cut it.

I was thinking of something along these lines, though I first heard about that idea in the 80s from TV.

At the end of the day though, he with the most money wins, and the little guy is just screwed over by the corporations that control the US.

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Kurzaa

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tmorris9
One method that has not changed for prior art is to mail specs, plans, drawings and such to yourself as certified mail and never open it. If sealed they can be used in court as proof of prior art. Of course this must be done in advance and should contain the same full information as a patent does, just a vague description won't cut it.

I was thinking of something along these lines, though I first heard about that idea in the 80s from TV.

At the end of the day though, he with the most money wins, and the little guy is just screwed over by the corporations that control the US.

From what I have been told that will not provide any protection of an patentable idea, except in the situation of 2 patent applications for the same idea being reviewed at the same time. Patent protection is not awarded to the first person with the idea but to the first person to get their patent application approved. There are many cases of two individuals, working independently of each other having the same idea at the same time, there are even cases where after a patent was issued that it was discovered that someone else had the idea and had already put it to use, but the patent went to the person with the eariest application filing.

Your best bet may be to file for the easier, cheaper and faster design patent instead of a utility patent, making the application as broad and generic as possible for maximum protection. Take a look at what Apple did with their phone, but as stated earlier "you need to talk to a lawyer". Of course even with design and utility patents protecting an idea, there will still be copies made and sold, so you will have to come up with the money to defend your patent in court.

Quote from above
"At the end of the day though, he with the most money wins "

thumbs up

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www.3dfilamenta.com - International Sales Platform for 3D Printing Products

You can file a Provisional Patent Application. You do not need to go into great detail or submit detailed art with a Provisional application. It just puts a time stamp on your submission, that costs about $100.00 (a few years ago, maybe more or less now).
The Patent office will hold this application for one year, and it is your "foot in the door", from which you can file for a patent from the provisional.
After one year, if you have not filed for a patent, you will not be able to file for a patent for that idea. Also, if you do file for a patent and it is awarded, your patent life starts from the Provisional submission date.

I recently filed a provisional patent for a 3d printer part (specifically hotend). I don't know if I can talk about it here since it might count as advertisement (although the other reprap based hotend manufacturers like E3D have posted threads on their own hotends).

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pushthatbolder
.) Does the original creator of an innovation have an advantage of someone who files a patent months later?

.) What sort of proof should a creator take to document their work, without using patents, and still protecting the creators.

.) Would the open-source method of open-collaboration[tm] count as proof of initial conception of an innovation?

.) If we have any patent lawyers in the house, maybe you can help.
What protection does a creator have?

.) The only protection i can think of is private development, and then hit the market fast and hard.

.) Or do we hit the market fast and hard with innovation and follow with finer open-development...?

.) Not if it isn't documented. The US patent system recently changed so the first person to file is the winner.
.) With the new system there is no certainty. You're best off with licenses but anyone who can afford a lawyer can screw you over.
.) It may be enough to help you win a patent case but you still have to pay a few hundred thousand to the lawyers.
.) Creators don't have protection outside without buying a patent, and even then things are uncertain.
.) Private development, hit the market is a GOOD IDEA but you will get copied by Chinese clone products within a year.
.) Also a good idea. Hit the market, build a brand name, and continue to innovate.

Everything you do is risky and there are no guarantees no matter what path you take. This is the truth, sorry!

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tmorris9
One method that has not changed for prior art is to mail specs, plans, drawings and such to yourself as certified mail and never open it. If sealed they can be used in court as proof of prior art. Of course this must be done in advance and should contain the same full information as a patent does, just a vague description won't cut it.

I know it's been a few weeks since you wrote this, but this is actually pretty poor advice. This article goes into detail as to why. Yes it's written from a copyright standpoint and not patents, but almost identical issues would apply to patents.

Hi Guys,

Re the above.

Mailing specs, plans, drawings and such to yourself as certified mail and never open it would not work. The uspto changed the laws about 2 or 3 years ago so it's no longer relevant. The first to file is the official rights owner once it's granted and the first to invent has no grounds to appeal that decision over the first to file. Any docs mailed long before the invention was filed for are only classed as prior art if they are in the public domain (ie can be read by anyone who looks for it).

Proof of your work could be a an online blog or an article in a magazine, it could be a published science paper. This blog could be used as evidence and anyone disputing this would have to prove how the blog was not prior art. But proof of your work is pointless given the last remark i made. All that you would be is a source of prior art over your own invention so you would have no rights to a patent unless you filed a patent before you posted the idea.

Open source work = same as the above. You need to at least file a provisional application before you post anything.

If you work in private and have appropriate non disclosure agreements in place then that keeps you out of the eye of the competition until you release a product. But, a competitor could file a patent in the mean time and depending on how long your R&D takes you could be left with a lot of product that you cant legally sell. Also as Generic Default said, you will be cloned unless you have protection.

Normally you have 18 months from a patent being filed to the publication of the spec and claims. After publication there is something called provisional protection that allows the patent applicant to warn you away from the idea.

A provisional is the best option if your unsure, now the uspto has a micro entity category which allows you to get 1 years protection to develop the idea and probe the market to see if it's a worthwhile idea. The cost is minimal at $65 and you just submit everything you have as a PDF.

Contrary to the above thread you DO have to go into great detail. Anything that's not in the provisional application is not covered with the 1 years protection.
If you add a feature in your main application that was missing from the provisional then you may destroy your patent if you went public after filing the provisional thinking you were safe.

Another thing to consider is that after 1 year the provisional application lapses if it's not used. You can file a second provisional and the first will not affect your new application so you don't have to worry if you don't follow the provisional with a real application. Provisionals are not published unless you follow up with a real application.

A design patent as mentioned by SumDude only covers the shape of something, some one else can duplicate the functional components and change the shape and you have no protection. The shape of the Iphone is a design patent and they sued Samsung for the shape of the android phones. Samsung changed the look of newer phones and the Iphone design patent no longer covered the Samsung devices.

Hope this helps

Mike