Can Mendel handle my huge Iron Man suit project????

Sorry for the double post, not sure where this one belongs...


I have just started my likely 6 - 12 month project of fabricating an entire wearable replica of the Iron Man suit. I have already begin building my 3D models to spec, and completed the helmet which I have used to begin getting estimates on. I threw the idea of using sheet metal out the door because of the complexity of curves and edges, and began considering 3D print which they used in the new Iron Man 2 movie to build their suit. However, Shapeways and many other sites are really high for this much material. The lowest estimate I have found was $1,200 to have it printed in ABS!!!

So after finding this Mendel project, I am starting to get my hopes up, but watched some videos of finished products, and am concerned that Mendel may not have enough detail even with ABS to print these pieces. Before spending money on ordering parts and building one, I need some honest criticism from owners here, on whether or not Mendel will be feasible for my massive project.

I have attached pictures to give an idea of detail. This helmet is made of 6 separate pieces, and measures H-24.1cm x W-18.4cm x D-28.8cm.

If FaceBooks new security will allow it, you can view my HD video here showing the detail that I recorded while moving it around in 3ds Max:
[www.facebook.com]

That looks like a die casting job to me. I say that for this reason:

[cgi.ebay.com]

You're not going to be able to compete with that price if you're looking to save money. If you're looking to sell them: 3d printing is a prototyping technology in most situations. Die casting would be the way I would mass produce them in order to try and sell them but then you're looking at potential trademark lawsuits...

If you are doing this as a school project or something: you'll have to build an "apollo" or repstrap a CNC mill to get the necessary work envelope I would think.

If you're doing this for halloween... I'd do my best with sheet metal, foil, paper mache, wood, plaster... ect.

Sand casting/plaster mold might be the way to go. Make the original out of wood using a belt sander and chisels I guess?

That's my initial impression: but I hope someone after me follows up with some better news. If that helmet can be printed in smaller parts: it may be able to be broken up, and then glued together.<-That could be done on a mendel.

A reprap, or any abs extruder for that matter, should have good enough resolution for a suit. The main issue is the print area. A regular Mendel wouldn't be able to handle that, as said before.

First off, thanks a ton for throwing your thoughts out here, it helps get me thinking

And yes, I do have this broken into bite size pieces, and can actually break them down more than the 6 I have now. Based on the print area of the Mendel, I am fairly certain I can keep all my parts in AutoCad within its constraints.

My biggest concern though, is how the quality of the prints would turn out. The major majority of these parts wont even have a flat base to them, so I am worried there could be some slack during the process if they are still plyable while Mendel stacks layers that could lean while being built... If that makes sense.

I do find some pre-built helmets out there that would be cheaper, even found an ABS exact model of mine without paint for $130 on eBay. However, the remaining body parts Chest, Back, Arms, Legs, etc will still have to be Fab'd so I have to get my process down here.

Still teetering on the idea of ordering my T6 Aluminum 16g sheets, and having them lasercut with the proper fold patterns. But dear lord, the amount of welding that would need to take place would be rediculous...

I knew this was one of those projects that no one is crazy enough to try, but that only makes me more eager to find a way to pull it off

first, most laser cutters can't cut metal - just engrave it.

also, [reprap.org] the LeBigRep

Ahh, that must be why the rep at onlinemetals.com said they only offered buzz saw cuts. I'm really milling over the whole sheet metal option really closely here, and I still think its going to be much to much work in welds or cold adhesives and really limit the look of my smooth curves.

I am willing to bet with some trial and error, I can add break away supports to these parts for Mendel to keep them properly shaped while in the building process.

I guess I am really just looking for someone with allot of experience on their Mendel to chime in here and tell me it's not possible.

whats wrong with LeBigRep?

Wow, that's the first I ran across LeBigRep. That would certainly be my first choice for this project if 1) A working set of instructions were ready 2) I knew what the crap I was doin and wanted to take it on myself

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2010 07:54PM by stlouistechy.

OK hintss, you got me interested here. I just found his published part list for this beast at [www.thingiverse.com]. I emailed him to get more info, and I am going to take a look at what its going to take to get this built.

If we can work together and get this project going, there could be some great credit to the community for building the largest printer to date. And who knows, maybe with enough work, we can get some metal based forms running through it and take a whack at the challenge of printing circuit boards.

Lets see where it goes!

could we take friendly plastic, mix it with aluminum powder, then make it into filament?

make magazine, spy issue mixed aluminum powder with friendly plastic

I am willing to bet we find a way to get the right temps to melt some forms of metal. Even the enterprise printers are offering it now, including Shapeways.com so the tech is already out there being sold as a normal option.

Field's and wood's metals Can go through a reprap extruder. They might be too weak for a usefull application though.

Anyone know if more advanced Extruder's can be implemented yet on the Mendel gen 3? I would like to take on the additional tasks of finding more precise, and faster moving parts for this building project on LeBigRep...

first, most laser cutters can't cut metal - just engrave it.

That specifically depends on the laser in question. We have a 2500 watt and a 4000 watt laser at work. The 4k will cut 3/4" steel at 30 inches a minute. Thin aluminum is at more like 300-400 ipm. Many sheet metal shops use laser blanking, its even competing favorably with punching with some more modern systems than we have. They are getting more common as are water jets which would also get the job done but much slower.
The cost for cutting is not cheap by a long shot though, but for the shapes needed for this kind of project, it might be a good way to go.

I just recently met a guy who came into my shop and three months ago had undertaken the came project and wanted help automating his face mask. He has been using Pepakura papercraft and adding Bondo to the folded/glued paper, which makes a pretty solid suit. Building a printer to make a project this size seems like a tangent when affordable processes seem to be being applicated with some pretty good results. My friend has been able to shape and reshape the plaster to the point that the detail is pretty darn impressive.

Just my two cents.

-D

You might want to contact a group called the 501st Legion. These guys are not into fabricating technology, but they know how to build realistic Stormtrooper armor, and can probably offer techniques that could be adapted to your project. They have chapters all over America, and possibly elsewhere, so you might be able to find a local person.

have you posted the inventor project online? will you? if you do ill look through the parts and try to print one on my repstrap

Well, been a while since I have posted any updates on this project. I took it allot further than I thought I would, and spent a good 2 months or so in planning. After allot of research, I knew that Rep Rap could not create the complicated structures I needed to create my model. There was no way to support the structure while it was being built, and the time and materials it would take to find a way to keep it standing while being built by Rep Rap would get way out of hand.

I moved on to rapid prototyping machines from there, as they build parts in a powder medium that holds the structure in place and carries a much higher resolution that would keep the finishing after each piece to a minimum. I spent about two weeks creating my helmet in Inventor, and sent it out for estimates from companies that print your 3D models and ship them to you.

This was way above most people's budget to have printed. shapeways.com has a great little online system that lets you upload your 3D project, edit the size, and get an immediate estimate. I believe it was right around $1,300 or so just for the helmet. But man it would look good. I'm sure this would put my entire suit into the $8,000 to $9,000 range to have printed and shipped. The cheapest estimate I got was from an individual that owned one for a home business, and he got the helmet down to about $800 in ABS plastic unfinished.

But, I didn't give up there. I found others that have tried and failed at creating their own home made rapid prototyping machines. For a good few years, lots of people have spent countless hours piecing parts from inkjet printers, building homemade lasers for sintering, and many other approaches, but I have yet to find any individual that has pulled it off on their own and created a working model.

I decided to invest the time into finding what parts would actually be needed. Spent right about another month on my project here building a zCorp type inkjet printer using UV pigments, and a high intensity UV light. The technology is pretty straight forward, and the ink cartridges move above the powder medium exactly like your home based inkjet printers. The cartridges that support these inks however are in the $600 - $800 per head price range, which I was still cool with considering the results of a working model.

But then, I begin planning the electronics to control my X and Y axis, and tell the cartridges when to express ink. Since there are thousands of jets in the cartridges, the custom programming would be pretty intense and require allot of labor before you even knew if it would actually work. I built my list of electronics and structural parts needed, and listed which items would have a risk of not functioning.

The risks I found that could not be found until after I ordered all parts, vs the cost of investment was just too high. I was right around $2,600 in parts, and only about 70% sure that I could get a working model built after receiving everything. With allot of thought, I decided to pass on the project. Maybe in the near future when I am willing to put some financial risk towards it, I'll take a stab at my parts.

Jeff B, shoot me an email and I'll share my helmet files with you to try. I am pretty sure though that on your Rep Rap, your going to burn through allot of plastic before calling it quits.

Thanks all for your support, if I pick the project back up, I'll be sure to send out updates to this group, and all the others that jumped in across the inter-webs since I started.



Best Wishes,

Jonathan S.

I think lost foam casting would be the best way to make this. You get all the parts cnc cut out of foam, add stems where the liquid metal can flow, cover in a thin layer of plaster, bury in sand and then pour melted aluminum in. Let it cool, break off the plaster, cut off the stems, sand, polish, paint, and you get something that looks like it came out of the movie. It might be alittle heavy as you can't cast it too thin. You could also grind, mill or drill the backs out to lighten the parts up.

Google lost foam metal casting.

There use to be a great website with lots of videos and stuff online. Its all gone now, his videos have been removed from youtube too. I can only assume its for legal reasons, most everything on his site was very dangerous. He made his own blast furnace using an old propane tank, some high temp concrete of some sort, a home furnace burner. His earlier projects just used a hole in the ground filled with charcoal and a leaf blower to get the temperature up. I can't recall what he used as a crucible. He was getting his aluminum from old hard drives.

did you just use a bunch of work planes or what

I loved this thread. Some of the Halloween costumes you can buy get you pretty close. Also, there's some pics of some really crazy custom stuff. The one guy's is just nuts: [www.slashfilm.com]

I was inspired by your thread, and got to work. I found sheets of tin and a low res pepakura file and threw this together in about a day. I don't weld but had some bolts to attach the pieces. I'm going to work on a high res version as soon as this semester is up. I think it turned out ok, but a high res pep file like the one you used would definitely work better especially for a lworking faceplate. Let me know if you come up with any new solutions.

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