Alibre Design and Reprap Isaac and milling parts

I am really exited about Reprap, especially Mendel and really really want one. However I am close to having all the parts I need to build a hobby CNC machine and I need to complete that before I start on the Mendel. My Father pointed out one of my failing in always starting a new project before I had finished previous ones and I am trying to address that.

Anyway I was wondering if when I have the machine built I could mill some of the Mendel parts in plastic. jupdyke seems to have been able to mill a subset of parts according to [forums.reprap.org]

There is also the isaac project [objects.reprap.org].

Now in the case of isaac at least they have redesigned the mendel parts. The designs are created and documented in a software package called Alibre.
Trouble is Alibre cost $599, but there is a 30 day Trial version available,

I also came across references to a free package called Alibre Design Xpress. Most web references pointed back to the 30 day trial version of Alibre, but I did locate one download [download.cnet.com] where I was able to download direct.

Trouble is during install it said it was a combined evaluation package and learning tool. After you get an activation key it gives you full access for 30 days and then disables some facilities. Now I was going to see if I could load the isaac files with it but I don't want to start my trial period before I have my CNC machine built and running.

The plan would be to use Alibre to export the files as STL, then use something like meshcam see [grzsoftware.com] to produce the g-code.

Anyway I thought I would mention it here in case anybody else wants to try.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2010 02:02PM by KeithSloan.

Why choose?

You can use a CNC mill as a repstrap with the addition of an extruder.

Agreed you can add an extruder to a CNC Mill but the downsides as I understand them are

1) I plan to use Linux EMC to control the CNC mill and the EMC extensions see [objects.reprap.org] to support an extruder don't support an extruder with a stepper motor at the moment. Consensus seems to be that Stepper motor extruder's are best.
2) Would have to buy extruder electronics and have to save up some money for that
3) I would have to buy an extruder off ebay or somewhere
4) CNC mills don't normally move as fast as a Reprap so printing parts is slower.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2010 02:37PM by KeithSloan.

I use Heekscad & OpensCAD for all my design work. Both open source and free. I then use Freecad to do my assembly work for motion simulation.

Each shine in certain areas.

Heekscad is a great parametric modeling program, great if you want to use boolean logic and describe your parts in terms of 2d free hand drawings, and 3d shapes.

OpensCAD is great when you want a programmable parametric design (like gears, where the constraints are easier to explain mathematically than by juggling shapes).

FreeCAD is great for motion simulation (put all your pieces together digitally to see if they fit), and it allows you to do motion simulation. I don't like the creation interface, but the assembly handling is great.

Finally for organizing your parts for printing I use Blender, because it allows you to very easily combine multiple stl parts into 1 part that RepRap can easily understand as a printable object.

Hope this helps.

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repraplogphase.blogspot.com

spacexula Wrote:
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> I use Heekscad & OpensCAD for all my design work.

I just checked the isaac files and although they were created with Alibre they are actually STEP files rather than native Alibre. Whoops

I tried loading the latest version isaac-2010-4-14.stp into HeeksCad but the file load just goes into a loop as far as I can see. Maybe I should try an older version of Heekscad than 13. Is 10 more stable?

Just tried version 12 same problem

Keith

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2010 03:21PM by KeithSloan.

You can always use EMC to control the stepper in the extruder directly (see David Carr's website). I borrowed the idea for my setup.

You are correct that most mills simply do not have the acceleration/speed required to print in a timely fashion. I'm using a Taig and can print what I think are good pieces at about 6mm/s. A Mendal frame vertex using 0.35mm layers and a 30% fill takes about 6 hours to print. Printing a vertex at 12mm/s takes 4 hours (due to acceleration limits) and shows some very minor distortions.

The only real annoyance that I have with my setup at this point is due to the fact that the temperature of the extruder is not currently controlled from EMC2, so I have to be there to physically turn the extruder heater off when a part is finished.

madscifi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The only real annoyance that I have with my setup
> at this point is due to the fact that the
> temperature of the extruder is not currently
> controlled from EMC2, so I have to be there to
> physically turn the extruder heater off when a
> part is finished.

Thanks I just upgraded my order for stepper controller to 4-axis so that I can cover all eventualities

Could you not modify the EMC extension to just use the Extruder Controller for controlling the heater on/off/temp. i.e. ignore motor control. When it sends it a command to set the temperature via the serial link does it then wait for a reply via the serial link. Same question with heater on/off

Quote
KeithSloan
Could you not modify the EMC extension to just use the Extruder Controller for controlling the heater on/off/temp. i.e. ignore motor control. When it sends it a command to set the temperature via the serial link does it then wait for a reply via the serial link. Same question with heater on/off

Yes. It is on the list of things to do...

Quote

I also came across references to a free package called Alibre Design Xpress. Most web references pointed back to the 30 day trial version of Alibre

They are the same. It starts out as a 30-day trial then falls back to the Xpress edition at the end of 30 days. The 30-day trial can definitely open it. We suspect the Xpress license can open it, but haven't tried.

Quote

I just checked the isaac files and although they were created with Alibre they are actually STEP files rather than native Alibre. Whoops

Not really an oops, just a convenience . The native Alibre version is split into a large number of files; the (enhanced) Step export is a single file that is importable by both Alibre and other CADs. The enhancement: Alibre stuffs all of its proprietary stuff into the Step export. When you import the Step back into Alibre, it converts it back into the large set of native Alibre files with everything intact.

Alibre price: the personal edition is currently available for $99. This is the edition that Brett uses. I splurged on the Expert edition so I could import the original Mendel files.

Todd

tbfleming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alibre price: the personal edition is currently
> available for $99. This is the edition that Brett
> uses. I splurged on the Expert edition so I could
> import the original Mendel files.
>
> Todd

I can find details of the Alibre offer for $99 in various places dated August 2009, but cannot find any details when I go to Alibre web site [www.alibre.com].
So I emailed them for details. Maybe it was an offer that has now expired )-: I hope not, but suspect so

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2010 01:41AM by KeithSloan.

Here it is: [www.alibre.com] . Right now the prices it's showing me are $99, $599, and $1199 for personal, professional, and expert.

Todd

tbfleming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here it is:
> [www.alibre.com] .
> Right now the prices it's showing me are $99,
> $599, and $1199 for personal, professional, and
> expert.
>
> Todd

Thanks for the direct link. Accessing the shop from the UK goes nowhere near this page.

Oh dear. I paid my $99 for version 12 Alibre Design 12.1 but when I tried and Open the Isaac stp file I just get the following file types as an options

ad_prt
ad_asm
ad_drw
ad_smp
ad_bom
ad_pcf
ad_scf

If I try an import I just get offered extension Autocad DXF and Autocad DWG.

If I just try and import anyway I get an error
Attempt to access index 2; valid range 0..-1

I'm looking into it with Alibre and we'll see what happens. I'm actually quite disappointed because my 11.2 can read and write that file just fine. I can't imagine them removing a feature, especially since I have an marking email from their CEO in February stating that Alibre Translate would be free for ALL versions of Alibre Design.

Alibre Translate can read/write tons of formats.

I don't know yet if this is user error, marketing error, or just evil error. I'll let you know what I find out. Either way I will get you a file that works.

I've been using the trial version of 12.1 and it worked fine with the Isaac files. It's version 12,1,0,12044 if that helps.

AgentHH - Are you opening the file or importing it?

I have the same version - my license under the help option says standard.

If I click on details when I get the message I get
java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Attempt to access index 2; valid range is 0..-1
at com.objectspace.jgl.Array.checkIndex(Int32 i, Int32 size)
at com.objectspace.jgl.Array.at(Int32 index)
at com.alibre.engineering.app.ImportFileHelper.importFile(StandardBrowser browser, Out out, String[] warningMessage, IBusyBodyContextObject busyBodyKey)
at com.alibre.engineering.app.ImportFileHelper.importFile(StandardBrowser browser, Out out, String[] warningMessage)
at com.alibre.app.ImportFileCommand.execute()

I am not aware of having Java installed on my machine

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2010 03:09AM by KeithSloan.

I'm just importing the STEP file, nothing special. Just worked.

I'm using this file: [reprap.org]

AgentHH - The trial version gives you access to the full product for 30 days. Are you still inside the 30 day window.

According to the latest version of the Alibre web site they have dropped the Standard version and for $99 offer a new version called Personal Edition.
see [www.alibre.com]

Personal Edition is a RETROGRADE step!!!, in that it does not support import or export of stp (STEP files).

I think the Isaac team will have to start distributing the source as a ziped file of parts and assemblies rather than as an stp file. Other wise, having to fork out $599 to access the files is a bit excessive.

Alibre seems quite a nice 3D software package, but I cannot say I am very impressed with Alibre as a company

Turns out my Account did not have the correct options and Alibre have now kindly fixed so I can now import and export with the Standard version.

Did this change your opinion of them as a company?

Hey all,

I have an Isaac kit, purchased from the Fleming brothers. They're great guys to do business with, btw. I too downloaded the trial version of the Alibre Design Xpress. After 30 days, when my trial ran out, I went through the website to convert it to the "free" license. Essentially this means that anything you open with it is read-only. In addition, several of the features are disabled. That aside, I can see everything I need to see to complete the work. I tried a few other packages, haven't purchased Alibre yet (probably will once I get my bot up and running), and Alibre was the best of the three I looked at. I can't really say I have any impression of Alibre as a company, other than the fact that their stuff works, and I haven't had to sink any money into it.

Kind regards,

JV

> I think the Isaac team will have to start distributing the source as a ziped file of parts and assemblies rather than as an stp file.

Well, there are many software packages capable of reading STEP files, including open source ones. For example, FreeCAD or HeeksCAD.

I just tried the file in FreeCAD an it imports all parts. Many parts are not in the right position, floating around, though. To create a STL, load the STEP, delete all but the wanted part and export the result. As there's no file type selector (yet), type in a file name with .stl at the end. You'll get a binary STL.

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