Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 23, 2015 05:46PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
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cristian
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geemoto
I realized that I actually have the extruder output data as well, so we'd be able to see if the extruder was simply outputting more power to compensate for the temperature swings, it doesn't seem to be the case - at least not to a huge degree
Too noisy to tell...
BTW, what nozzle diameter are you using?
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 23, 2015 07:32PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 23, 2015 08:13PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 344 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 23, 2015 08:16PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
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cristian
My PID parameters would not work for you because my heater block is not standard size: the hotend I have is not very known, and this is unfortunate because this hotend is virtually impossible to jam (I have been trying for almost a year now, and I never managed). If you cannot solve your problem otherwise, you may want to have a look at it.
Meanwhile, I think you have to play with cooling, isolation and temperature to avoid jamming, since probably you don't have any specific hardware or electronic issue.
From the pictures you posted I cannot see if your heater block is thermally isolated: if it is not, this may be a reason for the PID overshooting or oscillating.
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 23, 2015 08:41PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 344 |
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geemoto
I'm wondering if it's something to do with friction in the hotend...maybe exacerbated by filament swelling due to water absorption (I've had this filament for about 8 months now).
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 23, 2015 08:58PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 23, 2015 09:09PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 344 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 23, 2015 09:13PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 11:09AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 11:26AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 344 |
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geemoto
Given the extruder doesn't skip or slip, is it still possible for uneven extrusion? E.g. if the hotend gets 'jammed', and the extruder still has enough force to push, could the filament compress in the hotend, and then release the pressure all at once when the 'jam' is cleared? If that could happen, then simply getting a more powerful or geared extruder may not solve the problem.
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 11:29AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,873 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 11:53AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
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cristian
If the temperature is stable and you have a good quality hotend, this effect should be negligible.
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cristian
Edit: now that you make me think about it, I had this issue with an hotend with too long transition zone, that was not suitable for PLA. I also got these intermittent "almost clogs", even worse than yours. It got a bit better by setting cooling at 100% and increasing the printing temperature to 220C or more. However it was impossible to use with PLA.
I would think so, but the flat layer could also be due to poor bed leveling since it is the first layer. I would agree that this makes it seem less likely it is Z.Quote
JamesK
That flat print is interesting - doesn't the intermittent thickness on a single layer rule out anything to do with Z?
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JamesK
Your comments about the extruder skipping make me wonder. Is the grub screw for the gear on the extruder stepper motor firmly against a flat on the shaft? It might be worth pulling the gear off and looking for any witness marks for slipping, or if you can see the shaft at the end of the gear you could make a tell-tale mark with a pen and see if it's slipping during a print. You said the problem gets worse with lower layer heights, and that might fit with back pressure in the hot end causing the extruder to slip. The apparent Z relationship on the tall tower might just be because each raise in Z is a chance for the pressure to reduce and free things up. Maybe. Kind of grasping at straws
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 12:18PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,873 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 12:27PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
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JamesK
That's odd, I wonder how they fixed it on there. If they used thread locker you might have to use a heat gun to loosen it up, but I've not heard of anyone using that on a stepper motor shaft. I'd be worried about damaging the bearings if you have to use too much force to lever it off. Presumably if it's that hard to remove it isn't slipping, but a tell-tale mark would check that pretty easily.
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 12:47PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,873 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 04:28PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 344 |
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geemoto
I 'think' the hexagon is supposed to be a pretty good hotend, it does have a fair length transition zone, maybe about 2.5cm.
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geemoto
If the hexagon hotend isn't good enough, I don't know which hotend would be!
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 04:36PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
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cristian
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geemoto
I 'think' the hexagon is supposed to be a pretty good hotend, it does have a fair length transition zone, maybe about 2.5cm.
2.5cm is long, I would not be surprised if you had problem with that hotend then. In my hotend more than 90% of the temperature transition happens in less than 1.5cm.
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geemoto
If the hexagon hotend isn't good enough, I don't know which hotend would be!
The one I wrote you about would not disappoint you, it was designed specifically for PLA although it can print anything below 245C (it is not all metal). However, if others have your same hotend and can print well with it, it means they are doing something different from what you do or have a different setup.
Have you tried to print with other than PLA to see if the problem goes away?
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 04:59PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 344 |
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geemoto
That was probably poor wording, it has about 2.5cm zone of fins, but I'm not sure what the transition zone size is. If I were to approximate, the distance from the ceramic heater to the first fin is <1cm. The temperature feels ~45C at this point (by touch), so the temp drop is ~150C over 1 cm.
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 07:26PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 07:36PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,873 |
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 07:37PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |
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JamesK
At this point I'm thinking that "possessed by daemons" might actually be the most likely explanation
Those repeating stepped gaps between the problem layers must be telling us something, but I have absolutely no idea what!
Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 07:40PM |
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Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 24, 2015 10:11PM |
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Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 25, 2015 12:04AM |
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Re: Inconsistent extruder feed, jams - tried new hotend with no luck June 25, 2015 11:28AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 70 |