Hi there...

I'm having a problem with extruder temperature. Printer was working fine, but when i got home i saw that the print had stopped extruding mid way. So i cleaned it up, verified that it was extruding ok (it was), and set repetier to start the print again. I clicked the "start" button, the heated bed went to the designated temperature, and then it was time to heat the extruder. It showed the "heating extruder" sign, however the temperature did not rise. Actually, it did rise veeeery slowly, but it didn't get past 30 Celsius.

Thinking the extruder had a damaged resistor or something, i canceled the printer and clicked "disconnect". It showed the warning "some heaters are still on, shall i disable them?" i clicked yes, but it didnt disconnect. I clicked the disconnect button again, but the same thing happened. I pulled the usb cable, turned the printer off and went to bed.

Next morning i started the process again. First, before clicking "start print", i clicked the button to heat extruder, id heated just fine to 185 celsius. Then i clicked "start print", and the extruder temperature started falling, while mocking me with the sign "Heating extruder"! There was no way to get it to heat and start the print. Since it was not a hardware problem, i unistalled repetier, downloaded an earlier version, (0.95) configured it, and tried again. It still wouldn't work. I clicked stop print, got the same "shall i disable them?" warning, clicked yes. then, after repetier supposedly had disabled the heaters the extruder quickly went to the designated temperature!! Then i clicked "start print", and it turned the extruder off and the temperature dropped!


Whats going on? It's not a hardware problem, the extruder heats perfectly fine as long as you don't try to print. I tried different files, and 2 versions of repetier.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2015 10:10AM by southenprinter.

Behaves exactly the same way for me.

I've found it does the right thing despite the messages it prints. If I just hit print, it'll bring the bed up to temperature first, home the extruder, THEN heat it up. Sometimes I go into manual control and heat them both up at once, then hit print. That lets me remove the cardboard I need on the bed (when using ABS).

But it won't heat the extruder... It heats the bed ok, home the extruder ok, then says "heating extruder", but it doesn't! If i stop the print and turn the extruder on, it will heat, but as soon as if hit the "start print" button, it turns the heat off and extruder temperature drops...

What temperature do you have the extruder set at in your slicer? It sounds like the gcode thinks the temperature should be much lower. This is generated by the slicer, and once the print starts, it overrides your manual temperature setting. "Heating extruder" really means "Getting extruder to target temperature." When the print starts, you should see a vertical line somewhere along the extruder temperature scale in Repetier, showing the target temp.

I don't know why it would be heating up fine and then drop in the middle of a print, though. But check your slicer settings anyway.

Does it never heat the extruder? It stays at room temp? How long did you wait?

How about if you change the settings so it doesn't have to heat the bed?

Depending on how long you waited, this still sounds like how mine behaves.

Look in your gcode - what are the initial M104 or M109 lines at the beginning?

- Tim

Quote
CraigMoberg
What temperature do you have the extruder set at in your slicer? It sounds like the gcode thinks the temperature should be much lower. This is generated by the slicer, and once the print starts, it overrides your manual temperature setting. "Heating extruder" really means "Getting extruder to target temperature." When the print starts, you should see a vertical line somewhere along the extruder temperature scale in Repetier, showing the target temp.

I don't know why it would be heating up fine and then drop in the middle of a print, though. But check your slicer settings anyway.

I checked that, target temp is 185 C.

Quote
markts
Does it never heat the extruder? It stays at room temp? How long did you wait?

How about if you change the settings so it doesn't have to heat the bed?

Depending on how long you waited, this still sounds like how mine behaves.

So room temp is about 19-20C. I start the print some 10 min ago and in that period it rose to 25C.

Quote
tadawson
Look in your gcode - what are the initial M104 or M109 lines at the beginning?

- Tim

M104 and M109 both show S185

If you send M109 S185 manually, what happens? It appears that something is commanding the heaters off . . .

- Tim

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2015 01:41PM by tadawson.

Quote
tadawson
If you send M109 S185 manually, what happens? It appears that something is commanding the heaters off . . .

- Tim

Tim, how do i do that exactly?

Sorry, I can't give you specifics since I don't run Repetier, but there should be a communication feature that allows you to talk directly to the printer, and also see what gcode/messaging is going back and forth, and I will defer to others to procide you the specifics. I have heard this discussed regarding Repetier, so am certain that the function is there . . . (In Pronterface, for example, it's a field on the main screen . . .)

- Tim

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2015 02:16PM by tadawson.

Quote
tadawson
Sorry, I can't give you specifics since I don't run Repetier, but there should be a communication feature that allows you to talk directly to the printer, and also see what gcode/messaging is going back and forth, and I will defer to others to procide you the specifics. I have heard this discussed regarding Repetier, so am certain that the function is there . . . (In Pronterface, for example, it's a field on the main screen . . .)

- Tim

I found out how, but it didnt work

Quote
southenprinter

Quote
markts
Does it never heat the extruder? It stays at room temp? How long did you wait?

How about if you change the settings so it doesn't have to heat the bed?

Depending on how long you waited, this still sounds like how mine behaves.

So room temp is about 19-20C. I start the print some 10 min ago and in that period it rose to 25C.

Was the bed up to temp?

Quote
markts

Quote
southenprinter

Quote
markts
Does it never heat the extruder? It stays at room temp? How long did you wait?

How about if you change the settings so it doesn't have to heat the bed?

Depending on how long you waited, this still sounds like how mine behaves.

So room temp is about 19-20C. I start the print some 10 min ago and in that period it rose to 25C.

Was the bed up to temp?

yes, bed heats normally

Quote
southenprinter

Quote
tadawson
Sorry, I can't give you specifics since I don't run Repetier, but there should be a communication feature that allows you to talk directly to the printer, and also see what gcode/messaging is going back and forth, and I will defer to others to procide you the specifics. I have heard this discussed regarding Repetier, so am certain that the function is there . . . (In Pronterface, for example, it's a field on the main screen . . .)

- Tim

I found out how, but it didnt work

Didn't work as in no heat, or sending the command errored? If the printer will take the command and then does nothing, then you have pretty much isolated this to a hardware or firmware problem.

Does it heat with M104 S185?

If that works, and then M109 S185 causes it to stop heating, then your firmware is borked, plain and simple . . .

- Tim

Quote
tadawson

Quote
southenprinter

Quote
tadawson
Sorry, I can't give you specifics since I don't run Repetier, but there should be a communication feature that allows you to talk directly to the printer, and also see what gcode/messaging is going back and forth, and I will defer to others to procide you the specifics. I have heard this discussed regarding Repetier, so am certain that the function is there . . . (In Pronterface, for example, it's a field on the main screen . . .)

- Tim

I found out how, but it didnt work

Didn't work as in no heat, or sending the command errored? If the printer will take the command and then does nothing, then you have pretty much isolated this to a hardware or firmware problem.

Does it heat with M104 S185?

If that works, and then M109 S185 causes it to stop heating, then your firmware is borked, plain and simple . . .

- Tim

When i type either of those commeands, it changes from "idle" to "heating extruder", but temperature does not change

Which begs the question of how you ever got it to heat, since those are the only gcodes used . . . . And you are certain the firmware accepted the commands and is still on-line? In any case, this definitively rules out anything in your slicer setup . . .

- Tim

So i managed to solve it! I was looking at the printer instructions, in the slicer configuraction section, they recommended changing the "custom G Code" tab, which is the part that customize the G code instructions that the printer will perform right before and after the main G Code. There was a line there about temperature (by default), but in the printer instructions there wasn't. So i simply copied the instructions settings, without the M104 code, and that made it work. It's still strange, because i had never changed that before, and it had until that point worked fine. Anyway... these machines seem to have a mind of their own.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2015 08:46AM by southenprinter.

I know that in most slicers, if you put custom gcode in for temp, it will override what the slicer tries to send otherwise, but that in no way should have prevented the manual commands from causing the hearters to turn on, unless Repetier is doing some really odd stuff . . .

What, if I may pry, did you need to add or remove from the custom G code?

- Tim

Quote
tadawson
I know that in most slicers, if you put custom gcode in for temp, it will override what the slicer tries to send otherwise, but that in no way should have prevented the manual commands from causing the hearters to turn on, unless Repetier is doing some really odd stuff . . .

What, if I may pry, did you need to add or remove from the custom G code?

- Tim

I'm in another computer now so i can't copy the code, but basically it directs the extruder to a corner and 2mm high so it wont colide with anything. and i had to delete M104 S185.

Now yesterday i started a print and all was well until it stopped mid print. I noticed the extruder temperature was dropping, that's why it stopped, and i thought " not again!". I checked the G code, and i found two lines, at the point the printer was at that time, with the codes M104 S185 M109 S185. It was setting the temp again in the middle of the print, and the effect this has is turning the extruder heat off!

I deleted those lines, but havent had time to run the print yet. Anyway, is Slicer supposed to include those lines? Why set temp again during the print? And why is that turning off extruder heat?

Slicers almost always embed the temp lines, and it's very common for a temp change after the first few layers, which often run hotter (not sure about mid-print though). I have the M104, M109, M104 sequence in the gcode of everything I print, and it works . . . . I have a temp calibration piece that I use with 10 temp changes in it! None cause a shutdown . . .

I still think the problem here is in your firmware . . . this *should* work!

- Tim

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2015 10:54AM by tadawson.

Quote
tadawson
Slicers almost always embed the temp lines, and it's very common for a temp change after the first few layers, which often run hotter (not sure about mid-print though). I have the M104, M109, M104 sequence in the gcode of everything I print, and it works . . . . I have a temp calibration piece that I use with 10 temp changes in it! None cause a shutdown . . .

I still think the problem here is in your firmware . . . this *should* work!

- Tim

Yes, i think it is the firmware... But what should i do? I don't have any experience with firmware

Read, read, read, and read some more! Then configure, build, and load firmware that you know is correct. Possibly, someone here with the same printer might donate you a kmown-good config.

- Tim

For what it's worth, I just downloaded Slic3r 1.2.9 and am seeing something similar. I preheat using manual control and after hitting "Print" the hotend temp drops until the Z preprint motion starts then it begins to rise and then prints when back up to temp.

Quote
elwood127
For what it's worth, I just downloaded Slic3r 1.2.9 and am seeing something similar. I preheat using manual control and after hitting "Print" the hotend temp drops until the Z preprint motion starts then it begins to rise and then prints when back up to temp.

But in my case it sometimes turn the heat off in the middle of the print.


Anyway, could downloading and earlier version of slicer helps?

Quote
tadawson
Read, read, read, and read some more! Then configure, build, and load firmware that you know is correct. Possibly, someone here with the same printer might donate you a kmown-good config.

- Tim

The thing is, i didn't change or update the firmware...

I'm starting to think that maybe some temperature sensor is faulty

I feel that it is still very important to understand what is going on in the firmware . . . that way, when something like this happens, you know exactly where what you are seeing is coming from . . . . a classic example of where ignorance is *not* bliss!

- Tim

Is there any way i can see whats going on the firmware without changing it? I did a little googling and only saw how to upload a new firmware to the printer. The one that it currently has is Repetier 0.91. I wouldn't like to change it because it might make things worse.

Quote
southenprinter
Is there any way i can see whats going on the firmware without changing it? I did a little googling and only saw how to upload a new firmware to the printer. The one that it currently has is Repetier 0.91. I wouldn't like to change it because it might make things worse.

A couple of things.

The firmware that lives on the printer and is loaded by the Arduino application is called "Marlin".

[reprap.org]

Repetier is what talks to the printer and feeds it the "G-code", which is what is created by Slic3r (or Cura, or others), that describes your object and how your printer should print it. These applications run on your computer.

That said, I'm having a similar issue as you I think. It seems the bed is turning off at the beginning of the prints now, though I don't know why. I did update Slic3r and am running the latest Repetier, so it's going to take some trial and error to see what the issue is, and if it's the same as yours.