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Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3

Posted by dremd 
Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 15, 2010 12:43PM
I am trying to use a wades extruder with MakerBot electronics + firmware 2.3 (stepper version) as per [wiki.makerbot.com] .

I have wired up 2 different NEMA 17's with different results.

Stepper #1 [www.alltronics.com]
Motor did not move, but did make terrible sounds and heated up the bridges on the extruder board to the 90C range.
I'm guessing that I am Under Driving this stepper?

Stepper #2
Standard MakerBot NEMA 17 [store.makerbot.com]
Runs in the forward direction when set to forward with insufficient torque.
Runs in forward direction at higher speed and even less torque when set to reverse direction.
Stepper also runs fairly hot (75C) regardless of direction or even when stopped.
I'm guessing that I am Over Driving this stepper.

I have tried adjusting the only pot that I see on my extruder board, but I can see no difference in speed / torque / sound when adjusting.

Am I adjusting the wrong pot?
Is there a software equivalent of the pot's on the stepper boards?
Do I need a different stepper?
Am I just nuts?
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 15, 2010 01:39PM
Adjusting the motor PWM in ReplicatorG will change the duty cycle and provide more or less torque. 255 is 100% duty cycle.



Darwin clone, Gen 2 electronics, Arduino Duemilanove w/ AtMega328, 5D Firmware, Pinchwheel extruder
[www.codeerrors.com]
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 15, 2010 01:42PM
Thank you for the response.

I do get different speeds with <255 however I still have the above issues and seem to get even less torque.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2010 02:09PM by dremd.
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 15, 2010 09:20PM
I just shot a short and terrible Iphone Video in attempt to communicate issue.

[www.youtube.com]
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 10:16AM
It looks like you didn't modify your machines.xml because you don't have an RPM and PWM box in ReplicatorG, try this machines.xml [forums.reprap.org]


--
Tony Buser http://tonybuser.com * http://reprap.org/wiki/User:Tbuser#Projects
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 11:22AM
So I have to Modify the Machines.xml even with the makerbot 2.3 firmware?

I'll try it regardless when I get home.

Thank You
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 12:12PM
Oh hey, I've been out of town for the past week I didn't see that the new firmware has stepper support! Awesome! I haven't played with it yet, but I'm pretty sure you'll still need to change the machines.xml since they only updated the firmware, not replicatorg.


--
Tony Buser http://tonybuser.com * http://reprap.org/wiki/User:Tbuser#Projects
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 12:28PM
I now have a RPM window in Replicator G!
However, the rest of the issue remains.

A new Youtube video.
[www.youtube.com]

Any / All Ideas highly welcomed.
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 12:41PM
I think you need to set a PWM as well as an RPM. I believe when connected to the H-Bridges, you want a PWM of 255 and an RPM of about 15. I'm not sure why it's only moving in one direction... perhaps you should try changing the order of the wires around.


--
Tony Buser http://tonybuser.com * http://reprap.org/wiki/User:Tbuser#Projects
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 12:45PM
Actually I just double checked my notes, make that PWM of 160 and an RPM of 16.


--
Tony Buser http://tonybuser.com * http://reprap.org/wiki/User:Tbuser#Projects
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 12:58PM
I am getting the same (very similar) behavior at both PWM 255 RPM 15 AND PWM 160 RPM 16.

Currently creating a systematic approach to try every possible wiring configuration.

Correct me if I am wrong, but 1 pair (continuity) goes to 1A/1B and the other Pair goes to 2A/2B.

Also [www.reprap.org] indicates that there are " There are two pins: PHASE and ENABLE" is that supposed to be 2 pairs? or is that the wrong end of the H-bridge?

Thank you Thank you Thank you

P.S. Just realized I've been reading you blog for a while through the blog of Blogs. I loved the Mold-O-Rama and like your Idea of a Fused Filament version.
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 01:18PM
Did you modify "ArudinoSlaveExtruder/Configuration.h" and recompile the firmware?

You need to comment out the line that says "#define MOTOR_STYLE 0" and comment in the line that says "#define MOTOR_STYLE 2"


Edit: It looks like you are using a pre-built firmware that is supposed to work. I imagine this has already been done for you then.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2010 01:21PM by mccoyn.



Darwin clone, Gen 2 electronics, Arduino Duemilanove w/ AtMega328, 5D Firmware, Pinchwheel extruder
[www.codeerrors.com]
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 01:18PM
I think what that is referring to is the D9 and D10 pins. When I had it working with the MakerBot firmware, I had it wired Mendel style with the wires running from the SCL/SDA pins on the motherboard to the D9/D10 pins on the extruder controller, see: [www.reprap.org] However, I was using the older 1.8 firmware (modified and recompiled to enable the stepper extruder)

Also this might help you figure out the stepper coils [www.reprap.org]

Good luck!


--
Tony Buser http://tonybuser.com * http://reprap.org/wiki/User:Tbuser#Projects
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 02:12PM
1 Question

Do I pair wires like

1A
> Pair 1
1B


2A
> Pair 2
2B

****OR ****



1A
> Pair 1
2A


1B
> Pair 2
2B
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 02:35PM
dremd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1 Question
>
> Do I pair wires like
>
> 1A
> > Pair 1
> 1B
>
>
> 2A
> > Pair 2
> 2B

I believe that is the correct way. But it doesn't hurt to try all combinations, at worst it will probably not move or go backwards. I've never damaged anything when I had things wrong.


--
Tony Buser http://tonybuser.com * http://reprap.org/wiki/User:Tbuser#Projects
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 02:53PM
This is how the wires are inside the stepper motor: [upload.wikimedia.org]

1a is connected to 1b with some resistance and 2a is connected to 2b with some resistance.

The 4 wires on the board are typically wired 1a,1b,2a,2b.

So always make sure each wire is right next to the wire that it is connected to through the motor and it will work. It might be backwards, but that just reverses the direction of the motor.



Darwin clone, Gen 2 electronics, Arduino Duemilanove w/ AtMega328, 5D Firmware, Pinchwheel extruder
[www.codeerrors.com]
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 04:11PM
FYI: there are an ungodly number of permutations of wiring for a stepper motor.

That said I can get 2 basic results Using the [upload.wikimedia.org] meathod I get my original problem
and wiring it the other way I get [www.youtube.com] worse performance.


Any Other Ideas?
Something I could be missing?
Should I approach this from a new direction?

Thanks a ton guys.
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 04:17PM
I do have a spare makerbot stepper driver do you guys think I should go that route?
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 04:53PM
I actually think what you think is worse performance is the correct way. Now it looks like you might need more/less power, adjust the potentiometer on the board or PWM. It may also be overheating. Might be a good idea to try the RepRap host and firmware as well since the new MakerBot firmware is untested.


--
Tony Buser http://tonybuser.com * http://reprap.org/wiki/User:Tbuser#Projects
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 05:08PM
So the Duty cycle and the RPM are different?
I thought that they were the same (just converted).

Scurrying off to try more combinations
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 05:22PM
Duty cycle and RPM are defiantly different!

I can now extrude at 3 RPM and PWN 255 IF I start it by hand. I can continue extruding down to PWM 200.
4 RPM or higher is a fail and I still can not get the stepper to reverse.

The Pull Up Resistor (pot) has no affect on performance.


Tested again with what I thought was incorrect wiring and torque went to near 0 (I can easily stop the free wheeling gear with a toothpick) with all settings that I dreamed up.

Thank you guys again, I truly appreciate ALL input.
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 05:42PM
This just posted as a Youtube comment

"Whosawwhatsis"

Looks like your dir pin is floating rather than being pulled high/low when you switch to reverse. Arduinos have an internal pull-up, but not an internal pull-down, so if the pin controlling direction has been left in input mode (the default) and forward is´╗┐ high, that would explain what is shown in this video. If this is the case, setting PinMode to Output should solve the problem.

I can't wait to have stepper extruder support with repg, I'm getting really frustrated with reprap host.


Can anybody tell me how to set "PinMode to Output"?

EDIT:
This would confirm that what I thought was reversed wiring is actually correct wiring!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2010 05:45PM by dremd.
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 09:32PM
You have to modify the firmware source code to change the pin mode and then recompile it. You can read more about pinMode [www.arduino.cc]

Of all the possible wiring combinations there is only three possible results: the motor moves correctly, the motor moves correctly except it is backwards, the motor twitches back and forth, changing direction with each step. There are 4 ways that will be correct, 4 ways that will be reversed and 16 ways that will twitch back and forth.



Darwin clone, Gen 2 electronics, Arduino Duemilanove w/ AtMega328, 5D Firmware, Pinchwheel extruder
[www.codeerrors.com]
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 09:48PM
Have you tried running that stepper motor on another stepper driver? From the last video you posted it looks like there might be an alignment issue inside the motor.



Darwin clone, Gen 2 electronics, Arduino Duemilanove w/ AtMega328, 5D Firmware, Pinchwheel extruder
[www.codeerrors.com]
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 10:05PM
Mccoyn
Yes, I have run the current stepper on a different driver it was my makerbot Z stage up until a few days ago, although my Z stage has never been perfect so . . . I'll try in on a different driver agin to test.

however I did not try my other stepper on a driver before installing it.

Thank you for doing the Math on the number of wiring configurations.

When I try to compile firmware I get " 26: error: SimplePacket.h: No such file or directory" any Ideas on that?

Thanks again!
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 16, 2010 10:19PM
I'm just going from memory here, but the way I fixed that was to search the firmware folders for that and then copy it to the folder most of the source code was at. I believe you have to copy both the .h and .cpp or .pde files with the same name. I think there is another file that you will get a similar error for that you need to do the same thing.



Darwin clone, Gen 2 electronics, Arduino Duemilanove w/ AtMega328, 5D Firmware, Pinchwheel extruder
[www.codeerrors.com]
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
August 17, 2010 09:40PM
Sorry to Disappoint, but i gave up and ran my stepper off of a spare makerbot driver board strong as an ox now.

Only problem i have now is i need the Firmware version 1.8 PID settings.
I can hit 220c, but once I start extruding at speed (which is actually crazy fast) I drop down in the 190c range.

Thanks guys!

i hope this thread helps someone out.
Re: Stepper extruder using Makerbot extruder firmware 2.3
September 04, 2010 10:33AM
Just thought I'd add a note here since it was fairly recent and I have similar issues. I know with the same extruder controller and wiring I get different results on the reprap firmware than Makerbot. Reprap firmware (after modifying configuration.h) ran the motor very smooth and let me do a wide range of speeds. ReplicatorG is a much better experience all around but the stepper motor runs choppy and I can;t make it go very fast, at least it runs the same in both directions
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