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New print surface material?

Posted by Mutley3D 
Re: New print surface material?
October 11, 2015 01:38AM
Sounds interesting. I'd like pricing for a 590mm dia. disc please. Thanks...TP.
Re: New print surface material?
October 11, 2015 09:01AM
Quote

Sounds interesting. I'd like pricing for a 590mm dia. disc please. Thanks...TP.

And how about a price for 250mm disc? How much for shipping to the US?
Re: New print surface material?
October 11, 2015 11:20AM
Shipping is 3 british pounds everywhere. It's roughly 1.5x USD (1.53) so about 4 and half bucks for shipping. 300mm disc or 350 mm disc for me.
Re: New print surface material?
October 11, 2015 12:07PM
SimSpeed, ElmoC, 3DRapidClone yes shipping is £3 GBP at this time, for a limited time smiling smiley Shipping is by a first class Royal Mail (airmail for international) however for some destinations i do take a small hit. But its a time limited introductory offer smiling smiley

I will PM you guys with pricing for the circular surfaces in a couple of days once I clear a few things and cut some other circular orders.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2015 02:08AM by Mutley3D.
Re: New print surface material?
October 11, 2015 03:29PM
A lot more testing today.

Bed temp @ 52 deg
PLA @ 215 deg

Running a nice 1st layer bead on prints: once cooled to 30 deg it does swipe off quite easily - can't believe it. Using window cleaner to clean the printbite, got some issopropyl alcohol coming.

Also tried, printing on half that wasn't stuck with adhesive tape -must admit it printed the same as the half with tape..

Fine tuning to get the right bead takes an age, I was doing it manually with rotating my inductive sensor. The difference 1/8th a turn makes is crazy..
Re: New print surface material?
October 11, 2015 06:00PM
@dc42, have you been able to test this with the IR sensor yet? I'm interested to find out how well it works as I am trying to finalize a bed for a new printer and was thinking of using this.

Quote
dc42
Looks interesting!

1. Can you send me a small sample so that I can test it for compatibility with my IR sensor, [miscsolutions.wordpress.com] ?

2. Do you intend to offer it in pre-cut discs for delta printers? I would need a 330mm diameter disc.

3. What do you see as the advantages over BuildTak?
Re: New print surface material?
October 12, 2015 01:39AM
To cut circles I would use a HVAC installers Compass with steel points and go round and round. I would think it would score it well enough to snap off.
[www.ebay.com]
Re: New print surface material?
October 12, 2015 03:14AM
Quote
ElmoC
@dc42, have you been able to test this with the IR sensor yet? I'm interested to find out how well it works as I am trying to finalize a bed for a new printer and was thinking of using this.

I hope to test it this morning.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: New print surface material?
October 12, 2015 06:56AM
I haven't tried printing on it yet, but I just tested it with the IR sensor and it seems to work well, both on top of a black surface and on top of unpainted aluminium. Tests with a camera suggest it may be opaque to IR light, which is good.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: New print surface material?
October 12, 2015 11:36AM
elwood127 - those scribers wont cut it, also will be difficult to get an exact repeated circle given the number of times youd have to go round to cut a deep enough score thats cleanly breakable. CNC + 3mm bit will whizz round like hot knife through butter. The scribers would also leave a centre mark.

Phytone - awesome, great to hear it

DC42 - that is good news aswell, did you manage to print aswell by now?
Re: New print surface material?
October 12, 2015 12:22PM
I am keen to do a test print with a view to ordering a 330mm disc, but it may be several days before I have time.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: New print surface material?
October 12, 2015 05:26PM
Hello,

i got a similiar one from Replikeo some times ago but I was not able to get the filament stick well on it. Is there something that I should watch for? I only used the four clamps to hold the plate in place or do I have to adhere it somehow? Is a bed temperature of 65°C too high for PLA?

Best regards,

Sven


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: New print surface material?
October 12, 2015 06:13PM
I managed to do a quick test print today. I stuck the sample to the centre of a glass bed using double sided sticky tape, and cleaned the surface of the sample with isopropanol. I heated the bed to 70C indicated, because that is what I normally use to print PLA direct on glass (actual temperature on top of the glass is more like 55C), and hot end to 195C. I considered printing on a cold bed instead, but I thought removing the print might be easier if I use a heated bed.

At this point I normally run auto calibration, but I was unable to do so because the sample supplied was too small to cover enough of the bed. So instead I just ran G30 to set the Z=0 height at the centre of the bed. Then I further adjusted the Z=0 height manually using the paper test, on the grounds that I expected the IR probe trigger height to have changed compared to plain glass (the trigger height on plain glass is lower than on opaque surfaces because of the reflection from the underside of the glass).

My first attempt at printing was a failure. The points in the print lifted almost immediately. The extrusion width looked too narrow, suggesting that the Z=0 height was set too high. I have previously observed that the paper test is not repeatable across different bed surfaces, because the result it gives compared to using feeler gauges depends on the friction of the bed surface.

So I restarted the print, this time with Z=0 set 0.05mm lower. This time it stuck well, even though examination of the skirt loops suggested that the Z=0 height was still slightly too high. On completion it was well-stuck to the bed, but after the bed cooled to about 35C it was easy to remove. The underside surface of the print confirmed that I started with Z=0 height a little too high still.

I will try printing with lower bed temperatures when I get more time.

Mutley3D, please send me prices for one and two 330mm diameter pieces, including UK shipping.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: New print surface material?
October 12, 2015 06:22PM
Hello,

two questions: Are there samples available (as I made no good experience with the Replikeo version I would prefer to test this before buying)? Is a size of 214x200mm available?

Best regards,

Sven


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: New print surface material?
October 15, 2015 10:22PM
Actually, I just noticed something. Does Printbite support Polycarbonate? It doesn't seem to be listed. Thanks.
Re: New print surface material?
October 16, 2015 06:10AM
Just a quick note to those with requests for circular piece pricing and materials compatibility, I will be getting back to you over the weekend. Thx, M
Re: New print surface material?
October 17, 2015 04:04PM
Got some Printbite last week, threw it on my print bed with some double sided vynal floor tape, leveled it BY EYE. Heated ABS to 240, bed to 120, Hit print and was ready for a mess.....
I was very surprised at how well this performs, I have been stuck using PLA for past year as I have always had trouble with ABS warping/sticking.... of-course ABS slurry worked once I tried that last month but damn that stinks and so messy and a pain to prise of the bed.
Did a 3 hour print of a Torso part for the INMOOV project so quite large and flat, did use a brim.
Worked brilliant, I am currently having heating issues with bed as drops down to 90-95c when start printing (as i use leather on bed to pre-heat) but the print still stuck. Once print had cooled (bed at 16c) I went to grab it with expectation to give it some force, but as soon as i touched it it moved, just slid of bed, The underneath of print is so nice and smooth looking, unlike when using ABS slurry looks nasty, it also made removing prim allot cleaner also.

So happy with this.

Also, I did buy the Buildtak and tried that after, leveled with paper method, stuck as expected, yet once cooled, I couldn't remove the damn thing. Maybe nozzle to close to bed, but it was so stuck it was damaged upon removing also damaging my print.

So all in all Printbite miles better over Buildtak. I may have just had bad luck with Buildtak, but I can not try again, its fked. Printbite is so much more durable, I have tried with different nozzle heights and didn't have the problem i had with buildtak

Imarsbar
Re: New print surface material?
October 17, 2015 04:15PM
Quote
IMarsbar
Also, I did buy the Buildtak and tried that after, leveled with paper method, stuck as expected, yet once cooled, I couldn't remove the damn thing. Maybe nozzle to close to bed, but it was so stuck it was damaged upon removing also damaging my print.

So all in all Printbite miles better over Buildtak. I may have just had bad luck with Buildtak, but I can not try again, its fked. Printbite is so much more durable, I have tried with different nozzle heights and didn't have the problem i had with buildtak

Imarsbar

I have had this issue with Buildtak myself. Parts really stick to it. But since it worked better on getting the first layer to stick than other methods, I kept using it, but it can get expensive.
Re: New print surface material?
October 17, 2015 09:01PM
Quote
IMarsbar
Also, I did buy the Buildtak and tried that after, leveled with paper method, stuck as expected, yet once cooled, I couldn't remove the damn thing. Maybe nozzle to close to bed, but it was so stuck it was damaged upon removing also damaging my print.
So all in all Printbite miles better over Buildtak. I may have just had bad luck with Buildtak, but I can not try again, its fked. Printbite is so much more durable, I have tried with different nozzle heights and didn't have the problem i had with buildtak

BuildTak is very sensitive about the first layer. If it is too deep you damage the BuildTak after removing the part. So I damage already two of them. Three left grinning smiley My problem is more related to bed-leveling So one area is mostly too deep or too high. Small parts I can print but I still got warping of ABS. The surface is not glossy but it looks good.

I would also like to test Printbite as I have a similiar material an I was not convinced with it, but I will give it a new shot later. I do not know if you can compare my material with Printbite. Also I have no idea if it is a problem if I use the clamps which are often provided with the MK-beds with the print surface or if I really have to use double-sided tape.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 01:15AM
Quote
3DRapidClone
Actually, I just noticed something. Does Printbite support Polycarbonate? It doesn't seem to be listed. Thanks.

Tested this over the weekend. Polycarbonate filament from Polymaker bed 120 nozzle 275 and self releases when cold. Will update the list on the site later to include this smiling smiley
Good call 3DRapidClone.
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 01:23AM
Treito: my recommendation is that PrintBite is adhered to the glass using strong double sided adhesive tape (3M 468P or Vinyl flooring tape). This ensures the surface is mechanically stable under high heat aswell as ensuring best and even transfer of heat from bed through to surface. The bed heater should also be attached to the underside using traditional methods (kapton tape or binder clips or similar) to ensure maximum heat transfer. All best practice. Please note that PrintBite does not compensate for poor heating power or improper levelling.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2015 01:26AM by Mutley3D.
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 03:13AM
Quote
Mutley3D
Treito: my recommendation is that PrintBite is adhered to the glass using strong double sided adhesive tape (3M 468P or Vinyl flooring tape). This ensures the surface is mechanically stable under high heat aswell as ensuring best and even transfer of heat from bed through to surface. The bed heater should also be attached to the underside using traditional methods (kapton tape or binder clips or similar) to ensure maximum heat transfer. All best practice. Please note that PrintBite does not compensate for poor heating power or improper levelling.

Many thanks for the answer. The leveling was not the problem. The material just did not stuck until the print was finished.
I would like to get a test example of PrintBite for some reasons:
- Everyone here is excited
- I have two printers and only one Surface of an unknown manufacturer
- I would like to compare PrintBite with my unknown source.
- Reading the comments here I think I do not have the original one
- Giving this material a second or third chance (I try to run another test later)
- My probably fake one is not available anymore.
- It should be more robust as BuildTak

Is it possible to get a PrintBite of a size of 200 x 214mm? It would fit then my glass completely and I would have the chance of printing 205 x 100 instead of 100 x 100. Sometimes every mm counts.
I would order 3-5 pieces next months (to allow cooling down) depending on the price. (Germany).

Kind regards,

Sven.


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 05:55AM
Quote
Treito

BuildTak is very sensitive about the first layer. If it is too deep you damage the BuildTak after removing the part. So I damage already two of them. Three left grinning smiley

Wow, you bought 5 of them :O I thought I would only need one, as with Printbite, I am pretty shocked that the Buildtak is so fragile, since come on...we are reprap'ers... we are not all specialists and get it perfect all the time and like to tinker and try different methods, Buildtak is a very poor product in that sense.
Just set another print off on Printbite and first layer looks sweet again, all other prints on it have just popped right off, you can hear it crackling off when cooling, it is very satisfying grinning smiley
Also I didnt prep the surface or anything, just took it out the jiffy, looked it over and threw it on
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 06:26AM
My Ormerod 1 damaged the first two but not without getting some usable prints due to some unsolved mechanical problems. The next 3 are for one each for both printers and 1 "jumper" to allow the print to cool down before removing the part. Actually I am not using them. The BuildTaks I got were cheap. But it seems like that this PrintBite could be better and it is more durable of course.
For the moment I do not want to use my BuildTaks as the Ormerod 1 is not working (spare part is in my country so I get it the next days) and my Ormerod 2 has some issues with the proximity sensor.
BTW my FR4-plate did not work. The PLA lifted. Kapton is more adhesive. So, is PrintBite different from the normal FR4 as known from PCB?


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 02:50PM
Treito - as per the instructions PrintBite will not compensate for poor bed heating or unlevel beds. Yes it is different. Sorry i dont have any samples left. User reviews speak for themselves though so you can be confident in a quality product at a respectable price. If you need more info feel free to PM me.
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 03:10PM
Hello,

please do not mix things up. My Ormerod 1 was the one with bed-leveling problems. My Ormerod 2 uses a MK3 heatbed so temperature is definitely also no problem.
I bought my FR4 as fiberglass and the picture looked more like carbon. So yes, I was a little bit upset and I am skeptical as I do not want to get disappointed again in getting another piece of FR4. But you say now that this is different and I especially trust one person here in this thread. No optimal height but still stuck until it cooled down. That sounds good for PLA. It is durable and not sensitive of a too deep nozzle. To summarize the other tests

Kind regards,

Sven


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 07:00PM
Mutley,

Like Sven, I have an Ormerod which has a glass bet size of 200 x 214. Can you do a custom size to accommodate the extra 14mm over the 200 x 200 on the web site?
Either way I'll order a unit but it would be good not to lose the print space.

Dave (UK)
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 07:47PM
Quote
Fatlab
Mutley,

Like Sven, I have an Ormerod which has a glass bet size of 200 x 214. Can you do a custom size to accommodate the extra 14mm over the 200 x 200 on the web site?
Either way I'll order a unit but it would be good not to lose the print space.

Dave (UK)

I am happy to do size reqiirements to meet with customers' needs. If it is not listed just post a message here or send me a pm. I understand there are many different bed sizes, and I will be building up stock to suit various bed dimensions very quicky.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2015 09:30PM by Mutley3D.
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 09:24PM
Hello Mutley,

as I wrote you before (via PM) this bed size is very common as it is used for the Prusa I3 as well. It is used for many RepRaps in different forms but the size is mostly the same:
[reprap.org]

Best regards,

Sven


Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.
Re: New print surface material?
October 18, 2015 11:33PM
Mutley,

I just placed an order want wanted to make one comment about the website. With the sizes and buy now buttons so close together it's a little hard to figure out which "buy it now" button goes to which size. I would ether space them out a little bit or just put a separator line between them. Just a thought.
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