Anyone Have BotMill Feedback?

Hello everyone-

I'm looking to source all the electronic and mechanical parts for building a new Mendel from BotMill.com. Does anyone who's actually ordered from them have any feedback? I sent a few questions off to them two days ago, and haven't gotten a response yet. It got me to wondering if they're just busy or if it's something deeper. Just want to be sure before I drop $600 :-)

Thanks

I bought from them some PLA plastic and the package came in very fast.
Looks like part of their inventory is from Technozone and they also have some very nice looking kits and already assembled one that I do not know the source-I guess they produce it on their own
Looks very legit to me
Fred

I ordered botmills complete electronics kit, with motors, plus 5lbs of PLA. It took about two weeks for them to ship, and now that it's finally here, it's missing the four motors. In the last 5 days, I have emailed support and Gil Mayron 3 times, but so far, not one has replied...

I'll give it a few more days, but I'm starting to worry that I will have to dispute the transaction with paypal if I don't hear back soon

Still? I thought they had these issues solved...

ethans Wrote:
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> I ordered botmills complete electronics kit, with
> motors, plus 5lbs of PLA. It took about two weeks
> for them to ship, and now that it's finally here,
> it's missing the four motors. In the last 5 days,
> I have emailed support and Gil Mayron 3 times, but
> so far, not one has replied...
>
> I'll give it a few more days, but I'm starting to
> worry that I will have to dispute the transaction
> with paypal if I don't hear back soon

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repraplogphase.blogspot.com

I ended up placing an order 12 days ago, but haven't received it yet. I sent two emails requesting status of the order (one last Thursday, one last Friday) and finally got a response on Monday indicating my order had shipped on Saturday. I was told I would receive a follow-up email including my tracking number once they knew what it was, but I still haven't seen that email. If the order did ship on Saturday, it looks like I'll receive it before I receive the email :-)

They never responded to the email I sent on September 16th (two weeks ago tomorrow) requesting product information.

I have no reason yet to doubt my order will show up this week, but I can't say I've been thrilled with the customer service thus far. Their website purports "We answer all emails promptly. If we are very busy-a short delay may occur, thanks for your understanding." I don't know I would characterize this as a "short delay." I'll let everyone know if my order does eventually show up and if it's complete.

I also ordered from Fleming CNC and MakerGear, both of whom responded promptly and helpfully. My MakerGear oder was a pre-order, so I haven't actually received it yet but they still provided me excellent email support. I have my Fleming CNC order already and, in addition to prompt and helpful email responses, they delivered a well-packaged product in a short time. I'd highly recommend them.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2010 06:01PM by wesjanik.

Update: Speak of the devil - I just got a tracking number emailed to me. USPS doesn't know anything about it (which is odd if it shipped on Saturday, even for USPS) but we'll see.

yes-I ordered last month 10lb of Pla and got my order within a week.
They seem legit and I know a guy that bought from them a full kit some time ago and got it working with no problem.
Good luck with your project
Fred

I have a happy update. I received a reply from Botmill/Gil yesterday.

"Your motors are going out separately, unfortunately, techzone had a small delay with their shipment. We will send them as soon as they come in. Hopefully in the next day or two."

It's common to get zero updates - beyond USPS.com telling you that they have the package - until the package has been scanned on arrival. I remember them differentiating between having the package info, and actually having the package in the system. It looks like in this case, your item belongs with the former.

I usually ship USPS to a PO box, so at least I know when to go and check my box.

wesjanik Wrote:
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> Update: Speak of the devil - I just got a tracking
> number emailed to me. USPS doesn't know anything
> about it (which is odd if it shipped on Saturday,
> even for USPS) but we'll see.

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--
My blog's Reprap feed: [blog.markbova.com]
I'm currently working on a stock Mendel build with a Seeeduino Mega and four Pololu A4983 stepper controllers.

Definitely common for USPS to not have updates for a day or two, but not three. They do now recognize the package but state that it was picked up today, and not Saturday. According to BotMill, this package is for my electronics. I replied to their tracking number email on Wednesday asking when the rest of the order would ship (if it hadn't already) but have yet to receive a reply.

I've just had the same experience as ethans. Electronics showed up today with no motors. I still don't yet have tracking info for the ABS or hardware, but have been told it would be arriving today or Monday.

Considering BotMill isn't actually fulfilling the electronics orders - only pushing paper to Tech Zone - I have to characterize BotMill's service as pathetic. How hard is it to write back to an email in a timely fashion? It's not like this is high volume business.

I hope everything turns out okay for anyone else that's ordered already, but I will never order from them again and highly recommend anyone else go straight to Tech Zone or someone else.

//but I will never order from them again and highly recommend anyone else go straight to Tech Zone... //

LOL! There is an earlier thread somewhere in the forum that showed the sheer horror of doing what you propose.

Techzone if left by itself usually finds itself under water, customer support wise. That's how Botmill got involved in the first place...!

It seemed as though the situation with Techzone got better with Botmill's involvement. (Even if "Botmill's involvement" actually means "a place to vent frustration until you order ships from Techzone.")

//...or somewhere else//

Personally, I'm hoping the Mendel-Parts.com setup (http://www.mendel-parts.com/product_info.php?products_id=142) ends up saving everyone a whole heap of heartbreak...

I placed my order with Botmill for the full lasercut Mendel kit on 21 Sep.
The order status changed to "Order Complete & Dispatched" within a day or 2 which got me excited.

But since then I have been trying to get a tracking number out of them.
Gil was quick to email in the beginning to confirm my order, and has replied to several of my subsequent emails promising to provide the tracking no. but still nothing is forthcoming.

If they haven't yet shipped the goods I only wish they would say so instead of creating false expectations.

Same thing happened to me.

You're not getting that tracking number. Or at least, not one that works.

But they will ship it... You'll probably get it toward the end of this month(...ish...)

I ordered the full mendel kit with electronics and motors two weeks ago and just now received the mendel itself. The shipment did not contain the electronics and motors. I'm assuming that they are on back order. I've emailed Gil but have not received a response yet.

As for the tracking number, I was told that the tracking number I was given was a USPS tracking number. When I received half of my order, it was in a FedEx box.

Well, my order, a complete laser cut mendel, has arrived me after 70 days of my purchase. Product is fine, not good or best. Extruder failed after like 3 prints, so I had to replace it my own creation :p and their temp measuring system is a complete fail. They cant even help you on that too. So I had to go for AD595...

Anyway, I am sure soon there will be better places to order from.

From my part, I would recommend not to purchase from botmill.

Well, it's been a week since I was told I would have my hardware kit tracking number. A few days after I was told I'd have the information, I emailed Gil to request an update. He replied the next day with an explanation that due to "a surge in orders" they have instructed the manufacturers they work with to ship directly. He went on to explain how they pride themselves on "being able to provide you with a quality product at the best possible price." He also explained that he does his best to reply promptly.

The email contained no tracking numbers, no explanation of who the manufacturer was, or what a reasonable timeframe might be to expect action. I responded to this email requesting more visibility, and indicating the position I'm in with respect to PayPal and their time limit for reporting fraud. I have heard nothing. So much for a prompt reply.

Does anyone know who BotMill works with to source the hardware kit? I'm wondering if I can contact them directly to see if they even received an order for me. Because Gil has provided me with next to no information other than BotMill's "process," I'm not exactly confident the order has even been passed along.

With the number of stories rolling into this thread, I wonder if it's worth removing BotMill from the RepRap Mendel Buyer's Guide or at least add a warning. Reliability/quality of the products is something that may plague a hobbyist project like this, but being able to deliver what's paid for is non-negotiable.

BTW if they put a return addres on that direct ship, PLEASE post it. I am curious where they are getting those parts

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repraplogphase.blogspot.com

As far as removing them, I say no. They are not scaming, they are just giving HORRIBLE service.

I made a dude wait a month for some parts I was giving him in the loaner program, every few days promising I would send it, and then I would screw up and not send it. I sent him 2 wades for $10 to make it up to him. Does not mean I am a scam artist, just means I have the attention span of a Chihuahua.

Hope you get your printer soon!

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repraplogphase.blogspot.com

I suppose I would have to agree with not removing them on the basis of open information availability. However, I would argue that your example is different for two major reasons. First you're an individual operating as part of the loaner program, not a business providing individual sales. And, second, you aren't given an individualized link in the Mendel Buyer's Guide.

I think the community would certainly benefit from knowing the world of hurt they're in for if they do business with BotMill. Maybe a rating system of some kind for the vendors highlighted on the wiki? This would save new members of the community the trouble of having to search through the forums or solicit feedback when trying to get started. It could be driven by the ratings and feedback provided by individuals like many online shops.

I think a rating system would be a bad idea also. Partially because it would turn into a popularity contest quick.

In the end the community ends up organically self correcting. I don't know if you where around for the Profound Devices situation, but a lot of folks got burnt there, but they still have their Wiki Page [reprap.org] and they are still selling their Mendel kit [www.profounddevices.com]. But I don't think any folk buy it, at least ones that know how to use search

As much as I am not a fan of Botmill, I am very glad they are out there, and their prices are still amazingly cheap for what you are getting, and their electronics have improved.

That being said, I would absolutely deny payment on them when you come to the end of your denial window if they don't have your parts in hand. Just tell them to send you a new invoice and you will pay again, but that denial window is your only real protection, and your only stick.

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repraplogphase.blogspot.com

So what you're saying is it's good to advertise the existence of potentially bad vendors, but bad to advertise user experiences with them? If users should use a search to find feedback, why shouldn't they use a search to find a vendor? If the community benefits from having one bit of information organized, wouldn't they benefit from having related information easily accessible?

Personally, I would err on the side of favoring the consumer and not the producer. If people are getting burned trying to get involved doesn't that negatively affect the image of the project? I can understand wanting to make the community look vibrant and accessible but not if the end result is frustrated newbies - that just hurts growth.

I've been lurking since last year and didn't realize how problematic BotMill was until I started up this thread. I know how to use search, and I ran several. Are you saying if I were more skilled at employing search I wouldn't have run into this situation? Are you saying that, had I used the correct search terms, I wouldn't be so frustrated at trying to get involved? Are you saying that other users should go through the same experience as me and become similarly disgruntled because you're afraid a vendor might become more popular than another?

So what you're saying is it's good to advertise the existence of potentially bad vendors, but bad to advertise user experiences with them?

Nobody is advertising anyone here. Wikis just present information, Forums just contain opinion. Not once have I seen a core member of the RepRap dev team come out and say "Botmill is great folk, you should send money to, we endorse them".

If users should use a search to find feedback, why shouldn't they use a search to find a vendor?

They should, and then use the 2000 year old principle of Caveat Emptor.

If the community benefits from having one bit of information organized, wouldn't they benefit from having related information easily accessible?

Didn't say you couldn't do it, I just said that a rating system would become a popularity contest quickly. But by all means go head!

If people are getting burned trying to get involved doesn't that negatively affect the image of the project?

It sure does, but this is open source. How many junk Linux distros are out there? or Firefox/Greasemonkey scripts that don't work? Should Firefox/Linux go be the police? Nope. Open Source, deal with it, or go buy a $15,000 printer.

Are you saying if I were more skilled at employing search I wouldn't have run into this situation?

[lmgtfy.com]

[lmgtfy.com]

Yep, that's exactly what I am saying. How many videos of Botmill's kits did you watch on youtube (None I assume, because they are so new there are none), or their LC kit? (Think there is 2 on the whole Youtube). How many people who had already purchased their new kit did you talk to? (Again not many, they have just started shipping the new RP kit). You did bad research, you got burnt.

I wouldn't be so frustrated at trying to get involved? Are you saying that other users should go through the same experience as me and become similarly disgruntled because you're afraid a vendor might become more popular than another?

Read back though this forum, or in my blog, I have NEVER been scared to tick anyone off. Botmill has delivered their poorly engineered lasercut Mendel to the people that paid, late, but it was sent. Techzone from the very beginning had issues with their electronics, I have always pointed that out to people. I am pointing out now that Botmill is selling some really nice RP parts for a really good price, with a hamfisted version of customer service. If you don't like them, take your money back.

I just have a really hard time feeling sorry for someone who sends $1000 to someone that they have never met, on a site that was registered in Febuary of this year [who.godaddy.com], for a kit that you have never seen operate, and electronics that have had MANY complaints posted in the forums and in the blogs.

Edit their Wiki to state that they are having delivery issues, start a blog and add it to the Google reader feed and the Yahoo pipe feed and rail against them, start your own bussiness and out do them. start a wiki page just for venting about their horrible customer service, pray to what ever god you want. I am just saying this.

No memeber of the core team of RepRap has ever endorced them. You sent the money to a startup for a product you have never seen outside of their webpage. The info was there if you had looked harder.

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repraplogphase.blogspot.com

Of course I assume responsibility for sending money to a non-trusted source - I never said I didn't. My point is not that I should have been in some way protected from doing so, my point is that I disagree with your argument for excluding user feedback from a wiki.

And, yes, I do know how to use Google... Despite what some netiquette sites say it's insulting to insinuate otherwise, not helpful to computer-savvy users, and off-putting.

But, engaging in a flame war distracts from the core point of this thread so I'm choosing to end it here. If anyone has additional feedback on BotMill, please post.

wesjanik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course I assume responsibility for sending
> money to a non-trusted source - I never said I
> didn't. My point is not that I should have been
> in some way protected from doing so, my point is
> that I disagree with your argument for excluding
> user feedback from a wiki.

I will let Sebastian address that, but i still say Forums are for opinion, wikis are for facts.

I am not flameing, and the most "flamey" thing I said about your opinion was that a rating system would become a popularity contest quickly. Don't think that qualifies as flame.

Good luck

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repraplogphase.blogspot.com

Botmill / Techzone = Complete failure... I had a horrible experience as well. I don't think they actually rip anyone off but they DO sell things they do not have in stock to take YOUR money and do their bidding with it while you wait for the shipment to come...
Drop shipping from a company like Techzone is like cutting your brake line on your car and going for a race.... bad math........

If you have endless time and dont mind waiting for a unknown amount of time order away!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2010 05:09PM by DanielG.

Well-it looks like they have two different products/sources...the kit they sell (the one under $800) is from Techzone and it looks like it takes 3-4 weeks to get it after ordering. Than they have a superb product, quite more expensive that can be ordered assembled or unassembled-it is not laser cut (looks like it is made on a commercial 3d Printer)-it is by far the best one I have seen and they have a different source for it-delivery is in about a week after ordering......either they manufacture it themselves or they have a reliable source with a stock on hand...
I guess they should clarify better the difference between the items and the difference between the shipping time
Fred

I will let Sebastian address that, but i still say Forums are for opinion, wikis are for facts.

That seems reasonable; mind if I borrow that line for future use, Neil?

If we do start stuffing conflict-triggering stuff into the wiki, we'll have a bit of edit-and-revert-and-edit, people will start arguing about it, and then folk will call on me to resolve it.

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-Sebastien, RepRap.org library gnome.

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Remember, you're all RepRap developers (once you've joined the super-secret developer mailing list), and the wiki, RepRap.org, [reprap.org] is for everyone and everything!

NP Sebastien

Honestly I am sorry if I come off dismissive of the complaints about delays on the part of Botmill, but if you had seen what this place was like 6 months to a year ago with folk taking money and just not sending anything, you might understand why this just does not feel like a big deal.

I still sugjest to most folks to go with the Mendel-Parts.com kits, just because they are cheaper, and are printed on a RepRap. I sincerly hope that what Camiel is doing over there becomes a common practice.

SebastienBailard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will let Sebastian address that, but i still say
> Forums are for opinion, wikis are for facts.
>
> That seems reasonable; mind if I borrow that line
> for future use, Neil?
>
> If we do start stuffing conflict-triggering stuff
> into the wiki, we'll have a bit of
> edit-and-revert-and-edit, people will start
> arguing about it, and then folk will call on me to
> resolve it.

---

repraplogphase.blogspot.com

Quote

Nobody is advertising anyone here.

Well, while there is no outright advertising, a lot of recommendations exist. If you look at the Mendel Buyers Guide, you'll see a lot of company names. People tend to trust the information there, so any disappointment with the enterprises listed in the buyers guide (or elsewhere in the Wiki) lashes back to RepRap as a whole.

If we would remove this guide, many people wouldn't get started at all, this is a two sided sword.

While this is a difficult topic to handle, laughing at people or calling them silly, unexperienced, whatever most likely isn't a good idea. They try to get involved, after all. Other than that, I agree with you one should try to get a realistic picture of an offer before sending money. This is why ebay and friends offer rating and public feedback systems.

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY