Anyone Have BotMill Feedback?

BotMill is a joke!!!
I ordered an Axis 2 Plus back on June 23rd 2011. At this time I am still waiting for parts (Sept 19th, 2011). I have a file of 120 pages of emails in PDF format which is attached. I have been lied too and their promises are not honored. I had to assemble most of the parts. The parts that were assembled had rusted bolts on them. I ordered parts from Ultimachine to finish the printer. I was promised 10 hours of voice support, but never could get a phone number to call. A rumor is out that they are selling out to 3D Systems. In August I received the heated bed which was made backwards. The power supply came with a foreign plug which I had to rewire. When I ordered the printer from their website two extruders were included, which later was changed to one. One email promised me the two extruders. I also ordered the printer with yellow parts, but I got some red and some blue. There was no packing list in any shipment.
Parts still not shipped:
Assembled 1.75 mm extruder with motor (finish assembling with motor from Ultimachine)
Assembled 3.00 mm extruder with motor
Correct assembled heated bed (made my own)

SebastienBailard should be able to remove them. I have been reading about complaints about them for so long now I am surprised they haven't been removed. Now that they are no longer a Mom and Pop shop and a part of a huge corporation I would think that it would make sense to remove them.
[forums.reprap.org]

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Jeff Christiana

Botmill is really Bad!
Don't buy from them or you will run in to struggle for months!
My story is described above in this thread, but for those who might think they could be lucky with Botmill, here is the last update.
So after 6 months of patience and more then 30 emails, no Glider and no extra PLA. (it si a work of patience, I tell you)
We requested to be fully refund.
Another month went through with again 8 emails for to finally receive a check of a partial refund... Of course a check as to be money exchange so I lost another 33 euros.
I payed them for the Glider + PLa= 1295,00 euros
I ended up after refund with 1007,00 euros

So I waisted time and money!
Don't buy from Botmill.

Finally some good news! After a few weeks of back-and-forth between Botmill and the Palm Beach County Consumer Affairs division, I have a refund. Hopefully the checks clear. There were two checks as they initially sent only a partial refund (though claiming it was full.) This ends months of conflict with Botmill and I'm very thankful to PBC Consumer Affairs for resolving it. I hope that others are able to get their money back or otherwise reach a fair resolution with botmill.

I have held true to my promise not to do business with them since the extruder fiasco. It's all about makergear.com for me!

Update on my story: Amex got me refunded. This is one time their annual fee was well worth it. I just contested the botmill charge before my statement payment was due, amex took care of the rest...

Good luck to all that are still waiting.

All, after a long ordeal, I finally received a refund. It was only after filing several consumer complaints (see previous post) and contacting 3d Systems that restitution was given.

I would recommend that anyone who has a complaint with Botmill contact Rajeev Kulkarni of 3d Systems.

I made the mistake of ordering from Botmill.com I have lined up legal support and will be offering a chance for anyone with similar bad experiances to join in. This involves 3D Systems as they appear to be avoiding responsibility of Botmill customers in two documented cases so far.

I ordered my Axis from them back in February. I got it about a month and a half later. Some parts were not there...too many of others. Poor instructions (at the time), no bill of materials. They had on the site that it would be a 2 week turnaround before shipping...a month later after a few emails back and forth (which they replied with excuses) they said they would be shipping my printer. When it arrived there was a note about how a bunch of parts (the majority) were backordered, once I threatened a chargeback they immediately shipped my remaining parts (excluding the small amount of missing parts).

I plan on doing a full write up of my experience with pictures when I get a chance.

All I can say is that they showed me how not to deal with customers and I hope to never cause issues for others like they caused for me. I suggest never listing an item on your site which you do not have complete in your hands...it only causes problems.

On a sidenote: I ordered a hotend from MakerGear, they were very professional and add a great personal touch, full bill of materials (which list extra parts...very good work), fast shipping and they topped it off with a piece of chocolate.

You are right, all most the same experience I have had.
Attached is my pdf of 120 pages of emails back and forth.
I am checking into the gent that is starting a lawsuit.

Let me now what how I can help.
Attached is a pdf file of all my communications with BotMill.
You may use this in your legal pursuit.

I must agree with Viktor. Most of the posts I've read here have to do with machines not being delivered or money not being refunded in a timely manner. Everyone here must keep in mind that 3D Systems HAS acquired Botmill recently and the entire product is in that transition phase which means that 3D Systems is going a little crazy to get all issues straightened out. I don't blame anyone for being upset about waiting so long, I would be too but there is a reason for that wait. How would anyone feel if they bought a company and ended up with a boat-load of problems right from the start? 3D Systems is a reputable company and I can tell you from my own Corporate experience that they will solve the problems or heads will roll. During this delicate transition point in time I have no doubt that 3D Systems biggest priority is to get the production of this machine running correctly and to fill all outstanding orders as quickly as possible. I sincerely believe that the future for the Botmill machine is very bright and if you don't believe that, check out the website. www.3dsystems.com and you'll see other machines that have transitioned into an unbelievable market of usability, technical breakthroughs, and customer satisfaction.
If you've given up on Botmill as a company I completely understand but, please don't confuse them with 3D Systems.

Jim

I have some problems with botmill, and I would like my money back as I have told them many times. If they are serious about trying to help customers then post instructions! The RepRap community is in need of some good GPLed documentation.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2011 07:41PM by TwinGears.

I've had a rough experience with them. While I must say that their customer support people are very professional and try to be helpful, I just couldn't keep the order open. I had ordered in September, and after seven 1/2 weeks, I gave up. I'm still working with Amex to sort out a refund. Botmill says tehy never charged my credit card, but my credit card statement says something completely different.

I am also waiting for a refund from botmill but no dice yet. MakerGear seems to have a good reputation and I have talked with them a bit. Hope to buy from them when this nightmare is over with.

Finally I got a refund from botmill, through visa mind you but still. Having the bad service they did, I expected nothing without visa having there weight behind things. Even then there was a lot of finger crossing to get this mess sorted out, hope makergear pulls through as well as others say they are good people.

Hi!

This is Rajeev here. I have been in the 3D Printing world for the past 18 years and helped develop SLA, SLS, Inkjet 3D Printing, VFlash and several other 3D Printing technologies during this time. I now manage the Botmill acquisition by 3D Systems and I am very proud to be part of this innovative 3D Printing community!

When we acquired Botmill two months ago we went through several acquisition pains. Several of you worked with us to resolve these issues and we are very thankful for your help.

We have now resolved our supply chain issues which caused delays in shipments. We have also added new improvements to the design in order to make it more robust and reliable. We have introduced Peek barrels to make a very durable extruder. We have added heated beds standard to all new machines at no extra cost as well as upgraded our extruders from 0.3mm to 0.175mm.

Most important of all, we are now structured and committed to shipping all orders for new printers – the NEXT DAY. We hope this will help all of us during the holiday season as well as going forward.

Looking forward to working with you all and being part of this very innovative community!

Never again.

Dude this is GPL world here. If you are serious and really do want to be apart of this community then you need to chip in. Like when I asked for instructions and a parts break down, it didn't happen - doesn't matter now as I got my refund yesterday. But still, if you want fix the botmill reputation, because you bought that too! Then make sure every thing ships out complete as advertised. Also stop dealing with UPS, they are the shits for over the boarder stuff.

When the new customers start making page 8+ sound really nice here, then I know your making progress. I hope this doesn't sound too angry, but I ordered a printer when you were apparently running the show. Maybe you should have put a note on the botmill website saying new owners or some thing like that. Then some of us that feel used since September might have given you some slack...I don't know about you but I would have rather gotten a box of every thing late, rather than a broken box and missing stuff late, and who knows who the hell signed for it - like I said UPS don't deliver well in general. Please change that to Fedex or some thing, maybe you can get a deal from them doing a lot of business or some thing like that but they do a good job.

Tell you what, do a test run with shipping for kicks. Send 2 printers to a friend in Canada with 2 different companies, then he/she can do the job of sending the less damaged one back and then see what you see. From there you should notice the packing issues and how well the box actually held up - understanding that the crappier the packing the more damage you are likely to pick up.

Good luck to you all the same, it shouldn't be really that hard to turn the company around. I just can't understand why you bought a company with such a reputation, unless you knew the guy and thought you could do a better job...You sound like you totally into the technology so it's not like you needed to buy the company to become a quick study, because that does happen. Either way good luck, but you got a ways to go before I try botmill again.

Hello, I am new on this list. I'm a very disappointed Botmill customer who wishes he had found this thread back in September. I ordered an Axis 2.1 printer in late September. Unlike some others I see here, I did receive it about 5 weeks later. However, the poorly packed and sealed box had partly come open in shipping and some pieces were missing, most notably the hardened steel rod for the Z and Y axes and the acrylic panel for the electronics. I notified Botmill immediately via email to Gil and the online helpdesk with a list of what seemed to be missing. Both resulted in a response that someone from production would be in touch. That has never happened and I've never received any replacement parts. After reading everything here, I finally gave up and bought the parts to complete it from other sources (about $75 worth) and, since I also received no instructions, software or other documentation, I figured out how to assemble it from botmill and reprap websites. After several weeks, I think I now have a printer assembled that should work - I'm going to power it up this weekend to find out.

Additionally, the printer I ordered was supposed to consist of pre-assembled and tested sub assemblies. Those sub assemblies were assembled incorrectly, missing hardware and there is simply no way they had been tested. Several of the reprapped parts on the x-axis were even out of spec and had to be modified before it would assemble correctly. I can't imagine what someone expecting a fully functional printer out of the box might get. At best, for the $1200 or so I spent, I received a partially complete, undocumented set of parts. Lastly, as several others have said, it also was not the color I ordered (though given all else, I can deal with that).

I have dealt with a lot of small online companies that have sprung up out of the various hobby communities over the years and this is the first bad (and expensive) experience I have had. I feel for the folks that have bought this company and hope they are successful at turning it around, but I fear they have a lot of work and damage control to do.

Jim

TwinGears,

Thank you for your feedback. We will look into the UPS issue right away. Are there any specific points that concern you about overseas UPS?

Also, we have done the shipping test as you have suggested. I am not sure why your box was damaged. I will make sure we further strengethen our packaging.

Thanks!

Rajeev

recieved mine 20 Dec.2011 COMPLAINT: parts missing, no usb drive with software and examples, no tools, no holder for plastic,
COMPLAINT: customer service, no one ever answers "live operator" or is online, no one answers the "ticket system" it is now 30 dec I want my money back since this is unusable until you help me fix your screwups and you provide no customer service for that to happen.

understood rajeev? money back, no customer service, broken piece of junk, delivered missing parts

Larry,

I am sorry you got trapped by BotMill as I did. It took 4 months and three different shipments to get most of the parts. And then many were wrong.
I have been getting my missing parts from:

Lutzbot in Colorado 970-231-8649

and

UltiMachine in TN, 423-228-0005

Dear Larry,

We just noticed your comment on RepRap.

If you had a problem with your machine, why couldn’t you direct it towards us?

We would’ve been more than happy to help you out.


All the best,


Gil Mayron
Dear Gil
go to your website and read the open ticket which is unanswered or the contact us message from 21 dec 2011 or look at inclosed email to the fellow who your group that handles the open ticket claimed handled your problems. Then get happy and help your customer instead swarmy comments. I will post your comments on the blog and see if you think they are appropriate since only now are you trying to even find out what my problem is. You might even want to stop wasting my time with your nonsense and read the blog and answer the questions???? I noticed you have not offered any suggestions to fix the problem even though you took the time to contact me.


email to botmill

Seems silly to send a support request ticket and be informed that the only way to get assistance is to send an email direct to the person. I could have saved 4 days of waiting if you simply got rid of the ticket process and simply put your email on the website. I hope the idiots that sold me this piece of crap that was supposed to have the software and several examples with it have at least the sense to inform you of my order number since i did not bother with that and am more concerned that it does not work out of the box as advertised.
Problem the wires were clamped too tight and while adjusting the x axis the brown and black wires pulled the plug out of the ardruino board. Your instructions on how to install the thermistor on the diy kit show how to install the end on the extruder. I can find nothing on the plug in location on the board. Please send a pic of the board with the plug in in the correct location. Please recognise i not only don't know my order number but I do know the number of my credit card number and I will cancell payment for non working product with no help or support



-----Original Message-----
From: commander Lorenzo
To: gil
Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2011 11:50 am

Larry,

All emails are to be kept confidential.
Kindly remove my email string from your posting ASAP.

Gil Mayron

Mr Mayron

Kindly understand your failure as a company and your refusal to answer in any fashion my requests for over ten days for assistance to fix this 1500 dollar paper weight you sent me is not only a public issue it is a requirement on the part of all citizens to report you to the BBB a public organization to keep you from abusing citizens. Remove your false advertizing on the internet and stop pretending to sell a usable machine. Stop monitoring your bad press and start monitoring your company emails, your contact us letters, your non existant online help line that is always off line, and you might want to look at the ticket system you set up and read the complaint I sent on it to your company

For the love of GOD I hope you didn't mean this......."I sincerly hope that what Camiel is doing over there becomes a common practice."

Mendel parts has been doing VERY bad things to people for 6-8 month's now or longer....

For any newbie out there reading this..stay away from the following:

Mendel-parts
Botmill
Techzone

The above three will not nothing but cause loss of money, frustration and wasted time....
I DARE anyone to argue with me/// ( about the three )
Jump on IRC and they will guide you towards good vendors (there are plenty)



Dan

I think the first thing people don't realise when launching a business is how much time and effort is required to run a good business compared to producing a few products as a hobby. There are so many additional activities to the business like chasing suppliers, dealing with customers, handling paperwork that rapidly eat up time, leaving less time for fulfilling orders. And the Catch22, if you do a good product you get flooded with orders, with a webshop there are potentially millions of customers a click away.

Sudden expansion is not easy, you need money to buy parts, space to put them, and you can't just hire people off the street to build printers. Even getting people to pack and ship orders requires supervision.

The second thing people don't realise is that behind some of the impressive looking websites there is one of these "one guy and his dog" companies, and they may just not be able to deliver the service you expect.

Personally, I don't think people should take orders if they know they have a backlog. Sure, they might lose orders. But taking people's money implies a responsibility to provide a reasonable level of service. Customers should not have to suffer due to the lack of experience of people starting up small companies.

It's quite simple: only let people order things you have in stock and dispatch promptly. That way the customers are happy and you sell things as fast as you can make them anyway. You aren't loosing any orders because you can't make fulfil any more, only disappoint customers and cause yourself stress.

If you don't have enough capital to buy stock before people hand over their money then you shouldn't be starting a business, or you should use Kickstarter, etc.

Kickstarter transfers all the risk from the seller to the buyers. I.e. the seller has guaranteed sales and money upfront but the buyer has the risk that the product will not be produced on time or not be fit for purpose. If the seller has no track record then it is a big risk, but at least the pledger should realise this, whereas buying from an online webshop implies a normal low risk, quick dispatch, transaction like eBay or Amazon.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Seems Botmill has chosen to close website so it is probably unlikely they will answer my question about the location of the wires (brown and Black) that go to the thermister. Does anyone have any idea where this plugs into the computer board?

Depends which electronics you have. The botmill site doesn't specify this clearly but it may be Gen6. Check the reprap wiki for pictures. If you have this, you need to connect the thermistor to the rightmost pins of the bottom right molex.

The other option mentioned is RAMPS. In this case, the thermistor goes to the two pins marked 'T0', which should be below the pololu sockets.

If its neither of these options, post a picture or try to identify it from the wiki.