New E3D V6 (From China) Clogs as soon as PLA Enters

Yes, Yes, I was tricked into buying the low quality hotend from aliexpress. The actual E3D V6 would of costed me 120$ because of shipping where as the Chinese rip off was 20$


Here's my problem...

The hotend is fed with 1.75mm PLA at 210C, and flows easily by hand for about a third of a second. After that, it is really hard to push through the nozzle, until it clogs completely. I have opened the hotend assembly and took out the raw barrel itself (three times). The bottom of the barrel is completely clogged, and the brass nozzle, clean, not clogged whatsoever. What this tells me is the barrel that aligns the filament into the hotend is causing the clog. The PTFE Tubing reaches down the throat of it, and doesn't seem to be a problem. Its just as soon as the filament enters the heater block area, it stops and clogs. Could this be a misalignment issue? Or maybe the hole at the bottom of the barrel is too small? What I have noticed when taking out the clogged filament is that it changes from 1.75 to about 2mm in diameter, probably because of the heat, the PLA expands in the barrel, and cant be pushed through... Just to let everyone know, the hotend assembly is put together air tight.

I have a feeling that the replacement I'm going to get wont fix the problem, anyone have an idea to fix this?

Thanks!

Stefan Queen

ello,
you cleared out the heat break,. once it all together do see "light at the end of the tunnel!. have you selected the right thermistor in firmware .

Do you have a cooling fan on the cold end (part with the fins)? Thinking it could be heat creep causing the melted filament to get too far up the tube.

There are China clones that don't have these nasty PTFE tubes inside of the heatbreaks. Send me a PM when interested.
I wouldn't ever buy the original models again. My v6 clones work like a charm.

Yes, and yes. When its all together, I try pushing the filament to the end of the nozzle from the top of the barrel all ok, the hotend does have cooling fins, and the temperature readings are correct.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2016 11:08AM by InspecteurSpie.

It's really important to assemble the hotend correctly.

1. Heat to printing temperature
2. Screw nozzle all the way in
3. Back nozzle out by 1/4-1/2 turn or so
4. Screw heat break all the way in, finger tight, against the nozzle
5. Tighten the nozzle hard against the heater block (and therefore against the heat break)

210C is maybe a bit high for PLA... I print at 190C. Higher temperatures increase heat creep problems.

You don't mention the fan and heatsink... these are critical to the performance of the E3D knockoff. The fan needs to be on all the time.

When printing, make sure your retraction distance in your slicer is set to less than 1mm

Keep buying the e3d knock-offs. This will drive e3d out of business and be the end of any more serious Reprap hot-end development. If the developers aren't supported, development stops.

Agreed. I love my true E3D V5. No jams or clogs with tons of ABS through it. Best hot end ive owned. Sad but all the cheapskates out there are what kill companies.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2016 10:15AM by Floyd.

I can say the same about the 2 genuine E3Dv6's that I own - the only times they've clogged have been due to external problems (badly set up thermistors, extruder problems, etc). I will always try to support the genuine suppliers, even if I have to spend a bit more - you get what you pay for.

"E3D V6 (From China)" is fiction, pure and simple.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2016 11:00AM by David J.

Indeed. Bought mine at $90+ before they dropped the price. Worth every cent spent on it. I don't know what a clog is

And if you find the price of the E3D V6 a bit steep, buy an E3D V6 lite instead - a fair bit cheaper, almost as good, and you still support the designers.

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reifsnyderb
Keep buying the e3d knock-offs. This will drive e3d out of business and be the end of any more serious Reprap hot-end development. If the developers aren't supported, development stops.

Haha, that was a good joke. Dude, there is not only E3D that develops reprap hotends. To be honest, there is a ton of other great genuine extruder designs out there.

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Tomsand

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reifsnyderb
Keep buying the e3d knock-offs. This will drive e3d out of business and be the end of any more serious Reprap hot-end development. If the developers aren't supported, development stops.

Haha, that was a good joke. Dude, there is not only E3D that develops reprap hotends. To be honest, there is a ton of other great genuine extruder designs out there.

Yeah. And if people keep buying the knockoffs, there will be fewer and fewer. We have already lost new J-Head development because of the cheap clones.

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ElmoC
We have already lost new J-Head development because of the cheap clones.

Perhaps the developers need to change their business model? Instead of manufacturing a product themselves (which in a high-wage economy guarantees that it will be expensive, and consequently low-volume, so even more expensive), why not sell/license the design to a cheap manufacturer? A knock-off outfit wouldn't be able to compete with good-quality *cheap* products.

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frankvdh

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ElmoC
We have already lost new J-Head development because of the cheap clones.

Perhaps the developers need to change their business model? Instead of manufacturing a product themselves (which in a high-wage economy guarantees that it will be expensive, and consequently low-volume, so even more expensive), why not sell/license the design to a cheap manufacturer? A knock-off outfit wouldn't be able to compete with good-quality *cheap* products.

already looked at that kind of thing, they (pretty much all of them) aren't interested in that kind of arrangement, just making the quick dollars while they can then they'll shift on to the next product to counterfeit

---

-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

No joke. I am the guy who created the J-Head.

Sure! There are a lot of hot-end developers. Developing a hot-end, developing a hot-end that can be mass-produced, and then mass-producing the hot-end are three separate challenges.

My full argument is here---> [reprap.org]

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Tomsand

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reifsnyderb
Keep buying the e3d knock-offs. This will drive e3d out of business and be the end of any more serious Reprap hot-end development. If the developers aren't supported, development stops.

Haha, that was a good joke. Dude, there is not only E3D that develops reprap hotends. To be honest, there is a ton of other great genuine extruder designs out there.

The answer to the original question (anyone have an idea how to fix this) is:

Spend another $100.00

And Brian I appreciate the work you put into your designs. I have the Makerfarm J-head in my Prusa i3 and have never had a jam or any issues with it ever - and I have hours of print time on it.

Hi,

I have the same problem as the OP and I believe I know what's happening.

My E3D V6 chinese clone is meant to be used with a bowden tube and 1.75mm filament.
So the heat break has an area drilled into it, so that the bowden tube enters the heat break.

The problem is that, on the original E3D V6, the bowden tube enters the heat break only a few millimeters.
But on the Chinese clone, the bowden tube enters the heat break ALL THE WAY DOWN, to the part of the heat break where the threads have been removed.

As a result, the filament melts between the heat break and the bowden tube, and it creates a ring around the filament that prevents it from flowing.

It's too bad because otherwise the hot end is nice... but they guy who copied that E3D hotend visibly had aboslutely no understanding of what he was doing and why the bowden tube MUST NOT go all the way down... it effectively renders the heatsink useless.

The fix should be to order a properly machined heatbreak, either from E3D or from another chinese vendor.

Hope it helps

Here are the original drawings from E3D for the 1.75mm heatbreak.

And I have attached the modified drawing showing the improperly drilled heatbreak.

Still can't believe it...
Copying a design should be easy enough when the drawings are publicly available... those people really don't have a clue about what they are doing.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2016 09:35PM by uski.

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uski
Copying a design should be easy enough when the drawings are publicly available... those people really don't have a clue about what they are doing.

Maybe it was just easier for them in manufacturing to do it that way? What ever the reason, that's what happen when you don't buy the original.

The "cloners" don't use the blueprints. They make cheap knock-offs, spam the market place with their junk, and profit. Everyone else loses.

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frankvdh

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ElmoC
We have already lost new J-Head development because of the cheap clones.

Perhaps the developers need to change their business model? Instead of manufacturing a product themselves (which in a high-wage economy guarantees that it will be expensive, and consequently low-volume, so even more expensive), why not sell/license the design to a cheap manufacturer? A knock-off outfit wouldn't be able to compete with good-quality *cheap* products.

That's exactly what E3D have done with their 'Lite' version - they designed it, then subbed out the manufacture to outside companies while maintaining a supervisory role. I'm not sure where the outside companies are - UK, China or elsewhere. They cut back the design so that it could be made to lower tolerances, unlike the 'full-fat' E3Dv6 that has better internal finish and can operate to far higher temperatures, work easier with unusual materials, etc.

Yes but I feel obliged to say that not all cheap copies are bad I've an e3d v6 clone which has worked without any problems for 9 months. I am going to buy a genuine v6 when it does give up as I'd like to try the real thing, so maybe in this sense the argument that illegal downloaders buy more genuine products has some credence.

Reading this thread I feel guilty for buying it, but how can we stop people buying the cheap copy when some are reasonable and do work and the price differential is so large (less now on the e3d range).

The traditional method was strong intellectual property law, something which the 3d printing community is at odds with by the nature of what we do, and which is near impossible to enforce between USA/Europe and Asia. We'd be pretty unhappy if Stratasys shut us down for using a heated chamber or heat bed (they did try), but we don't want a Chinese company to make an e3d clone. Isn't this a level of hypocrisy?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2016 03:56AM by DjDemonD.

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DjDemonD
Yes but I feel obliged to say that not all cheap copies are bad I've an e3d v6 clone which has worked without any problems for 9 months. I am going to buy a genuine v6 when it does give up as I'd like to try the real thing, so maybe in this sense the argument that illegal downloaders buy more genuine products has some credence.

Reading this thread I feel guilty for buying it, but how can we stop people buying the cheap copy when some are reasonable and do work and the price differential is so large (less now on the e3d range).

The traditional method was strong intellectual property law, something which the 3d printing community is at odds with by the nature of what we do, and which is near impossible to enforce between USA/Europe and Asia. We'd be pretty unhappy if Stratasys shut us down for using a heated chamber or heat bed (they did try), but we don't want a Chinese company to make an e3d clone. Isn't this a level of hypocrisy?

it's not so much that they are doing it, it's more how they are doing it, technically what they are producing is a variant as 99% of the time they don't follow the published drawings

this was especially the case with the jhead, however the counterfeit/clone jheads were and still sold as if they are the original and lead the buyer to believe that they had been produced following some sort of plan or drawings which they didn't,

the problem is more with the fraudulent marketing and not releasing sources the e3d is now seeing what the jhead has been through in recent years , it's literally a question of "when?" before the design process behind the e3d stops

---

-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

Well it is if E3D sales are poor and their profits are non existent. But the widespread and ubiquitous downloading of music and movies has not prevented musicians and directors from making music and films, or prevented them from selling them and making a profit - has it made it harder? Yes. Is that always a bad thing - no. It forces genuine creative/technical people to come up with something much better that is worth paying for. Would you design a fairly generic hot end in this market and try to sell it, no? You might come up with something really innovative and you will sell some. Perhaps e3d need to make it harder to copy. Make the heatsink using selective laser sintering so that it has an intricate design, purely for the purposes of making it more fashionable and desirable and extremely difficult for a chinese clone company to copy.

We cannot in all fairness say its okay for us to download a design for something that is under patent/copyright and print it, using a machine that infringes the patents of companies that pioneered the technology at great expense, but then in the same breath say that when our cherished hot end designer and manufacturer is threatened by people copying their product that this is the root of all evil.

We live in a world where, whether you want it to be or not, pretty much everything is open source or at least reverse engineered and copied. Its also a world where most people shop on price not quality (though not everyone obviously). We need a clever solution to this problem, it might help to say "please buy genuine" but for every one person you convince 10 more will buy the copy. Some of them will be happy with it, others will be disappointed and might buy the original next time.

We have to deal with the reality of the world, not harp back to a time when large corporations (e3d might be a small company now but 30 years ago they would have been able to become a large patent owning, legally threatening company like Stratasys) controlled everything and we just had to pay whatever they asked us to pay for the things we wanted.

I feel sorry for our fellow contributor reifsnyderb and the J-head, but the notion of protesting the cloners by refusing to develop the j-head, whilst admirable and brave, will not make a big dent in sales of copies or of other hot ends. Most buyers are totally unaware of this situation, they might care if they were aware but they are not, and many do not care one iota. Would it be possible to cover one's costs to design a new hot end even if sales were smaller than they might have been a few years ago? People will still do these things as a labour of love, for the good of the community. Just because you have realised a good idea - what makes you think you still have the right to sell and market it and make a fortune in this new world of open source, sharing, collaboration and 3d printing and when this doesn't happen get annoyed about it? We either want real openness or we don't.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2016 05:03AM by DjDemonD.

Not a close comparison. If someone downloads an illegal copy of a song or movie it's an actual copy of the real thing. Using your example of music/movies it would be like buying a copy of the movie Star Wars and finding it has all Chinese actors and sub-titles.

What I find is amazing is people buy what they know is a cheaper clone of properly engineered and tested product that needs the right tolerances and when the cheap knock-off/clone doesn't perform like a properly engineered product they are upset and ask for help making it work.

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DjDemonD
Well it is if E3D sales are poor and their profits are non existent. But the widespread and ubiquitous downloading of music and movies has not prevented musicians and directors from making music and films, or prevented them from selling them and making a profit - has it made it harder? Yes. Is that always a bad thing - no. It forces genuine creative/technical people to come up with something much better that is worth paying for. Would you design a fairly generic hot end in this market and try to sell it, no? You might come up with something really innovative and you will sell some. Perhaps e3d need to make it harder to copy. Make the heatsink using selective laser sintering so that it has an intricate design, purely for the purposes of making it more fashionable and desirable and extremely difficult for a chinese clone company to copy.

.

Yes but in your example above, you download the movie for free or buy a dodgy dvd from a guy in the pub, its the same quality as the original, yet still the movie business continues. When you buy a cloned e3d, sometimes its poor quality sometimes it okay, but you paid 1/6 of the price of the original. If you expect 1/6 of the performance or 6 times the problems then that's not an unreasonable attitude. My e3d clone's teflon liner broke down in the throat causing a jam, I bought an all metal throat, polished it and rebuilt it and it works flawlessly now. But I will still buy a genuine e3d when I finally kill this one, partly out of curiosity and partly as I do think that on balance I should since I am more invested in 3d printing and bitten by the quality/reliability bug more than initially just a curiosity about 3d printers. The person new to printing is not going to spend £50 on a hot end, they might hate 3d printing, their whole printer cost $212 (for a delta!). The person who has been into it for a while and loves it will spend £1000's on 3d printing stuff over the course of a few years, including genuine e3d hotends.

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SteveRoy
Not a close comparison. If someone downloads an illegal copy of a song or movie it's an actual copy of the real thing. Using your example of music/movies it would be like buying a copy of the movie Star Wars and finding it has all Chinese actors and sub-titles.

What I find is amazing is people buy what they know is a cheaper clone of properly engineered and tested product that needs the right tolerances and when the cheap knock-off/clone doesn't perform like a properly engineered product they are upset and ask for help making it work.

Quote
DjDemonD
Well it is if E3D sales are poor and their profits are non existent. But the widespread and ubiquitous downloading of music and movies has not prevented musicians and directors from making music and films, or prevented them from selling them and making a profit - has it made it harder? Yes. Is that always a bad thing - no. It forces genuine creative/technical people to come up with something much better that is worth paying for. Would you design a fairly generic hot end in this market and try to sell it, no? You might come up with something really innovative and you will sell some. Perhaps e3d need to make it harder to copy. Make the heatsink using selective laser sintering so that it has an intricate design, purely for the purposes of making it more fashionable and desirable and extremely difficult for a chinese clone company to copy.

.

Worse still is that these clones are like people buying that Chinese Star Wars movie then blaming Disney for a lousy movie.

Making it harder to copy doesn't work. China doesn't follow blueprints. Don't ask me how I know.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2016 10:05AM by reifsnyderb.

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uski
Here are the original drawings from E3D for the 1.75mm heatbreak.

And I have attached the modified drawing showing the improperly drilled heatbreak.

Still can't believe it...
Copying a design should be easy enough when the drawings are publicly available... those people really don't have a clue about what they are doing.

Late to the game for a response but I agree. I purchased a real J-Head back in 2013 and I have abused it left and right (physical abuse over the years) and it just keeps going and going and only once did I have a jam because some eBay filament had a piece of metal in it and I had to take it to my stove to get it out then kerplunk goes this small ball bearing into my sink. I do have two issues with the J-Head and that is I can't change out just my Nozzle when it wears down and it IS worn down and I can't go above about 245c safely.

Time to migrate to a new hotend that does what the real J-Head doesn't and in comes a E3D-V5 (then V6) but wow the price is hideous in comparison to even a real J-Head. Now I go out and buy a nice clone with all of these nozzles and with a volcano block + nozzles and the first thing I did was unscrew the heatbreak where I found, to my surprise, a teflon tube going into the heater block. /facepalm From now on it is original for me again but the reason there is a teflon tube like that is because it is easier to manufacture AND the inner bore is so horrible that if it didn't have a teflon tube nothing would be able to get through. No, the Chinese have never understood polishing and to polish something like this would cost them more all around so they make garbage.

I am no China lover in any respect and they did it to themselves considering all of the junk they make. No, they don't save the best for themselves they still make junk for their own people and in places where it really matters and quality is essential you can open the box and find made in (insert any country but China here) which should speak tons. With the new USA president we are going to see a lot of changes and with tariffs, etc..., that Chinese made knock off may end up being almost as expensive as the real deal in the USA and I am elated BUT if the real deal suddenly increases their prices to compensate due to a lack of competition (good or bad) then that is a company I would not do business with.

We shall see what the next couple of years will bring.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Just gonna throw in one more voice for E3D. They are awesome, and spend time and money for the betterment of the community. Support them!