E3D V6 clone quality ?

Are the E3D V6 clones any good or am I best just getting a original ?

Thanks Nikki

The quality varies hugely. Get the original if you want to be sure you get your moneys worth.

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[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]

get the best you can afford, although with a genuine they're been tested to destruction well understood and plenty of support from the creator and forums at E3D should it develop a fault. " not sure I'll chance a thread starting with" my clone V6

I say get both then you at least have a good one to fall back on. and see what all the fuss is about.

Thinking about clones?

I recently purchased some "E3D compatible" extruder nozzles via amazon.com. A set of 3 nozzles 0.3, 0.4. and 0.5mm cost a grand total of $9 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01850BBPE). Here's what I got: 3 unmarked nozzles that look a lot like my E3D nozzles, but which is which? So I put them under a microscope and took a look:



OK, It's pretty easy to tell which is the smallest, but which of the other two is the larger? Hmmmm.
Notice the size of the flat brass ring that surrounds the holes in the nozzles. What's going on there? Shouldn't they be uniform? If not, shouldn't the ring size correspond to the hole size? Hmmmm.

Then I noticed something odd about the hole in the smallest nozzle, so I took a closer look. In this photo I turned the nozzle over and looked down the barrel through the hole.



Notice the ragged shape? What's that going to do to print quality?

I guess I got my $9 worth with these parts.

Think about that when you look at buying cloned parts because they are so cheap. Of course, anecdotes are not data. This one example does not mean that all clones are bad. It also doesn't mean that the original product is any better (though my year long printing experience with the original product tells me it's better than this). This is just one example of the problems that can occur, and the level of quality control you can expect with cheap, no-name parts. If I didn't have a microscope how would I know which of the nozzles is which? I'm still not sure which is the 0.5mm nozzle and I don't have any way to measure the hole sizes directly to see if they are close to the advertised sizes. That means I'll have to try printing with them and then measure the wall thicknesses to try to determine the actual nozzle diameters. Ugh! There's another hour of my life gone for no good reason.

Ignoring the other issues, at least E3D marks the nozzle size.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2016 08:28AM by the_digital_dentist.

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

Have a look at this thread to see another example of a E3D clone you don't want to buy

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the_digital_dentist
I'm still not sure which is the 0.5mm nozzle and I don't have any way to measure the hole sizes directly to see if they are close to the advertised sizes.

Since you already have a microscope with a camera, just take a photo of a ruler under the microscope. It looks like you're probably using a digital camera held up to the microscope eyepiece, so take a single photo of the nozzle and the ruler in the same frame so that you don't have to worry about differences in magnification due to the camera position. Once you have the image, almost any image processing software will allow you to measure the diameter of the nozzle and the spacing of the ruler divisions in pixels, from which you can calculate the diameter. My favorite program for this task is Fiji / ImageJ, which is specifically designed for processing of microscope images (In Fiji, look for "Set scale..." and "Measure" in the "Analyze" menu).

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jinx
get the best you can afford

The problem with clones is you can't tell which is the best... I don't believe that price is an indicator of quality(but would be happy to see evidence either way).So I'd say "If you can afford the real thing, get it. Otherwise, get the cheapest clone you can." Or "If you're happy to spend time sorting it out, get a clone, otherwise get the real thing".

Or, on the assumption that the problem with quality is variability, get two or three cheap clones, try them, then use the best of those. If you're lucky, you'll also end up with a spare. In case you're unlucky, also get a set (or two) of cheap micro-drills, and use those to clean up (and measure, @TDD) the nozzle hole diameters.

Buy the clones. The best part of it is that if everyone buys the clones the innovators will leave.

mhhh forgot the link in my posting : [forums.reprap.org]

I think if you want to be safe you should make a clone/ original hybrid, heatbreak and nozzle original, heatblock and heatsink clone ( if u can find good clone parts, buy multiple heaterblocks as spare)

Just received my v6 clone today (7 us dollars)

A friend of mine bought clones before, wich were terrible.

I am very pleased with mine, very nice finish, it really is an exact copy (maybe not from materials but you can't tell from looks)

Did not test mine yet but looks awesome, and it comes pre assembled.

I also bought 5 heaterblock's idem to original , but 4 dollars for 5 pieces.

Picture added For the one's who disagree with people buying clone's, i think the original is way overpriced ( i have the original 1 v5 and 2 v6's as well).

If my clone doesn't work properly, wich i doubt, i will make it an hybrid.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2016 09:12AM by Govahnator.

I have used 3 chinese E3D clones over the past year. They have all worked flawlessly. They have never failed and never clogged. I print PLA only(200-205C). They all have the teflon insert. All have been with a .5mm nozzle. I took them all apart and re-assembled, just to ensure they were assembled properly before use. The cost between $4 and $20 each. I have a fan on the cooling fin/heatsink on everyone of them.

1 year ago I did purchase a new original Jhead hotend from reifsnyderb. To date I have never even tried this hot end. It is still new in the package. It was about $60. I originally purchased it thinking that my first clone would not work, and then I would have a real Jhead ready to use when I needed it. After using the first E3D clone, and not having any issue, I then built 2 more printers using a clone. Each clone has been slightly different as they were never from the same seller.

I just built a small prusa i3, 6x6x5 for my nephew and did not want to spend a lot of money and went with another E3D clone for $4. It works perfectly. I spent less than $150 for the whole machine. Spending $60-100 for a hotend for this machine was not in the budget. I think the majority of people who respond to these threads a vocal supporters of US made products, which is fine, and I think the other 90% of reprappers use the clones and just do not respond.

Many people have problems with the clones, but not all the problems are actually due to the clone. Problems could be due to not knowing how to use the printer, wrong temps, no cooling fan, etc...

For $4 I think it is well worth an experiment. Perhaps buy a real E3D as well. If the clone fails pop the real E3D in.

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Govahnator
i think the original is way overpriced ( i have the original 1 v5 and 2 v6's as well).

I disagree, that money is needed to continue doing business and doing research like [e3d-online.com]

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Frans@France

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Govahnator
i think the original is way overpriced ( i have the original 1 v5 and 2 v6's as well).

I disagree, that money is needed to continue doing business and doing research like [e3d-online.com]

Frans@France is correct.

If e3d goes under, your only options for new product designs will be to either do it yourself or forget about it. Running a business, innovating, doing research, purchasing machinery, and maintaining machinery costs money.

There are new J-head designs that were created as well. Those designs will not even be given away due to this kind of support for the cloners.

Just keep buying the clones. China thanks you.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2016 09:56AM by reifsnyderb.

I am aware of that,

But i still think 70 euro for a hot end is to much, but hey the new 1730 hot end that is on kickstarter is 125 euro, that's just madness.

The real problem is that market for these thing's isn't that big, but the costumer shouldn't have to pay more because of that imo.

If i start a company and i don't have as much customers as i would want to, or need to, customers aren't going to pay more for my product's because of my sales not being very high, quite the opposite actually.

But i do understand your point, and maybe i underestimate the costs to keep a company like e3d going.

Like i said, i do support them, i have 3 e3d's, i recently bought a hardend steel nozzle from them, and now i bought one clone.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2016 11:19AM by Govahnator.

The problem here is that people are unable to distinguish between quality goods and stuff that isn't when it looks the same. That's OK for handbags or scarves or something that doesn't have to function precisely, but in a 3D printer, ALL the parts have to work properly. Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better. They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works. They're used to unclogging the hot-end after every print and they think it's normal just like they thought it was normal to reboot Windows 98 (and XP) every hour or so to keep it working.

There's no guarantee that a "genuine original" product is "all that and a bag of chips". I bought a budaschnozzle (a design as ridiculous as its name!!) a couple years ago because people said it was great. After I received it I realized it was one of the dumbest hot-end designs ever. Heatsink fins on a teflon tube? Wood parts right next to a heater that runs >200C? Clearly the designer had no idea what they were doing. The lesson I learned was that you can't trust most reviews and you can't trust the designers to know what they are doing. You have to educate yourself and use your own critical eye to determine what's good and what's not.

If you're making hot-ends that sell for $60, you're not going to sell them to any of the vast majority of people who refuse to pay more than $300 for a printer. If you thought you were, your business plan is flawed. The Chinese cloners and kit makers figured out that people care about cost more than they care about whether the thing works and more than they care about the time they're going to waste trying to make chicken salad (a good 3D print) out of chicken shit (a $300 printer).

If you designed a hot-end that sells for $60 and you're whining about the cheap clones stealing your business, you are charging too much and/or you are not marketing it properly and educating 3D printing enthusiasts about why your hot-end is better than the cheap knock-offs. If you can't get your price down, quit trying to sell the part to people who buy $300 printers. You can't play in that space. You have to go higher end, and target the much smaller market of people/companies who spend $1000 and up for a printer. Tell them about quality of the parts, about the better print quality, about increased reliability, and after purchase support, then make sure you deliver on all the promises. Be forewarned, those people tend to be very critical...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2016 11:38AM by the_digital_dentist.

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

You are absolutely correct. A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc. Hey, running a business is so cheap that all products should be given away. I can't argue with that at all.

Ok. I am done.

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the_digital_dentist
The problem here is that people are unable to distinguish between quality goods and stuff that isn't when it looks the same. That's OK for handbags or scarves or something that doesn't have to function precisely, but in a 3D printer, ALL the parts have to work properly. Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better. They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works. They're used to unclogging the hot-end after every print and they think it's normal just like they thought it was normal to reboot Windows 98 (and XP) every hour or so to keep it working.

There's no guarantee that a "genuine original" product is "all that and a bag of chips". I bought a budaschnozzle (a design as ridiculous as its name!!) a couple years ago because people said it was great. After I received it I realized it was one of the dumbest hot-end designs ever. Heatsink fins on a teflon tube? Wood parts right next to a heater that runs >200C? Clearly the designer had no idea what they were doing. The lesson I learned was that you can't trust most reviews and you can't trust the designers to know what they are doing. You have to educate yourself and use your own critical eye to determine what's good and what's not.

If you're making hot-ends that sell for $60, you're not going to sell them to any of the vast majority of people who refuse to pay more than $300 for a printer. If you thought you were, your business plan is flawed. The Chinese cloners and kit makers figured out that people care about cost more than they care about whether the thing works and more than they care about the time they're going to waste trying to make chicken salad (a good 3D print) out of chicken shit (a $300 printer).

If you designed a hot-end that sells for $60 and you're whining about the cheap clones stealing your business, you are charging too much and/or you are not marketing it properly and educating 3D printing enthusiasts about why your hot-end is better than the cheap knock-offs. If you can't get your price down, quit trying to sell the part to people who buy $300 printers. You can't play in that space. You have to go higher end, and target the much smaller market of people/companies who spend $1000 and up for a printer. Tell them about quality of the parts, about the better print quality, about increased reliability, and after purchase support, then make sure you deliver on all the promises. Be forewarned, those people tend to be very critical...

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reifsnyderb
You are absolutely correct. A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc. ...

You just described China. That's what you chose to compete against. Are you really surprised that people would rather pay $10 for a hot-end than $60?

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

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reifsnyderb
You are absolutely correct. A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc. Hey, running a business is so cheap that all products should be given away. I can't argue with that at all.

Ok. I am done.

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the_digital_dentist
The problem here is that people are unable to distinguish between quality goods and stuff that isn't when it looks the same. That's OK for handbags or scarves or something that doesn't have to function precisely, but in a 3D printer, ALL the parts have to work properly. Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better. They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works. They're used to unclogging the hot-end after every print and they think it's normal just like they thought it was normal to reboot Windows 98 (and XP) every hour or so to keep it working.

There's no guarantee that a "genuine original" product is "all that and a bag of chips". I bought a budaschnozzle (a design as ridiculous as its name!!) a couple years ago because people said it was great. After I received it I realized it was one of the dumbest hot-end designs ever. Heatsink fins on a teflon tube? Wood parts right next to a heater that runs >200C? Clearly the designer had no idea what they were doing. The lesson I learned was that you can't trust most reviews and you can't trust the designers to know what they are doing. You have to educate yourself and use your own critical eye to determine what's good and what's not.

If you're making hot-ends that sell for $60, you're not going to sell them to any of the vast majority of people who refuse to pay more than $300 for a printer. If you thought you were, your business plan is flawed. The Chinese cloners and kit makers figured out that people care about cost more than they care about whether the thing works and more than they care about the time they're going to waste trying to make chicken salad (a good 3D print) out of chicken shit (a $300 printer).

If you designed a hot-end that sells for $60 and you're whining about the cheap clones stealing your business, you are charging too much and/or you are not marketing it properly and educating 3D printing enthusiasts about why your hot-end is better than the cheap knock-offs. If you can't get your price down, quit trying to sell the part to people who buy $300 printers. You can't play in that space. You have to go higher end, and target the much smaller market of people/companies who spend $1000 and up for a printer. Tell them about quality of the parts, about the better print quality, about increased reliability, and after purchase support, then make sure you deliver on all the promises. Be forewarned, those people tend to be very critical...

If you don't get that you can't make money in a market that won't support it and won't embrace your quality you should be done. You should also stop complaining petulantly in every thread about clones. I machine stuff for a living in the USA. Lower your costs, I know I could with the equipment I have available. I don't because I can evaluate the market and see it isn't worth my time. You pulled your prints as some kind of protest? I make parts like gears every day from mangled ripped up "sample" parts, getting dimensions from a sample is a few minutes work in any shop, in the us or China. Pulling your prints is a symbolic tantrum.
It sucks that you can't make the money you want, but whining about it isn't going to fix it. Certainly won't make anyone want to buy anything you are selling.

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reifsnyderb
You are absolutely correct. A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc. Hey, running a business is so cheap that all products should be given away. I can't argue with that at all.

My purpose in life is not to support your business. I'm sorry that you can't make money the way that you want, but neither can I. I like the fact that the 3D printing community is pro open source, and that cheap clones are available, because that means that many more people have access to the technology, rather than it being a province of the wealthy. I do get your point that someone somewhere has to pay for research and development... there are lots of people who are doing this for free. This probably means that progress isn't as fast as it could be. Maybe you could use (e.g.) KickStarter to seek out people who can afford to fund your R&D in exchange for early access to better products?

Or maybe you could sell quality? Buy 100 clone hotends for $10 each and triage them; up to spec go straight to sales, unfixable go back to eBay at $10 each, fix the rest. Sell the good ones for (say) $40 with a certificate/guarantee. If on average it takes you half an hour to measure & fix a hotend, and you get 50% success, you'll make 50*($40-$10) = $1500 for 50 hours work = $30/hr. I know that there's overheads and machine tools and shipping and all the rest to pay for, but I figure that with some simple jigs and tools, you could probably knock the measuring down to 5 minutes, and all the other numbers are (I think) conservative. If you could get to 75% OK for on average 20 minutes work on each, you get to 75*$30 = $2250 for 30 hours = $75/hr.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2016 02:41PM by frankvdh.

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Koko76
If you don't get that you can't make money in a market that won't support it and won't embrace your quality you should be done.

Could not disagree more! The pure and simple fact that the clones and knockoffs are available in large quantities or beter flood the market means that it becomes harder and harder to understand the price difference. So while the market would support the higher price and beter quality it's unaware of the reasons. So like [the_digital_dentist ] is saying

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Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better. They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works

Have a look at the E3D blog, start reading about printing 250grm of carbon and how that completely destroyed a nozzle. Just that simple piece of information would have cost them a minimum of two nozzles and > euro 50 in filament and x hours of work.

Or read about the new heatbed and the problem with the current heatbeds...

Major info there to be found, for free because people buy their products..

.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2016 05:45PM by Koko76.

Just ordered a original one. Why, because it is my first printer and the hot end just needs
to work, so that all the other thinks that are not standard, can be tested.

I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build.
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan....
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost.
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.

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Jata
I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build.
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan....
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost.
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.

yeah i don't imagine they are making much of a profit out of it,
it;s not just a piece of cnc'd aluminium though, there's the heater block, nozzle, thermal break which are also machined then there is the : screws, washers, heater cartridge, fan , thermistor , ptfe tube , injection molded fan thingy ... etc

if machine shops in the uk are anything like machine shops in Australia the profit margin on these things things wouldn't be great by the time you account for all the labour ,quality control, after sales support, shipping, etc i'd be surprised they make enough out of it to be worthwhile

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

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Jata
I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build.
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan....
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost.
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.

Hi Jata,

I don't know your background so I may be wrong, but most people who make comments like the above aren't machinists, haven't tried designing their own hot-ends, and understandably don't have a good idea of what's involved. I'm not a professional machinist, but I have friends that are, and I do have the resources to design and make my own hotends. I've also spent time comparing the drawings that E3D generously make available with what some of the cloners produce. A few things have become pretty obvious:

The complete hotend is more complicated than you suggest, and it's a critical part of the printer. The clones may look ok from the outside but are often completely different on the inside where it matters, sometimes in ways that show the cloners have little understanding of the physics involved.

The E3D V6 is IMHO (and with apologies to Brian) the best hotend currently available to the DIY market, and it almost certainly took man-years of effort to develop.

Creating a similar style of hotend with manual lathes/mills takes hours of work. It would cost hundreds of dollars to pay for the shop time to have a one-off made.

The CNC stations that can turn them out economically are huge capital investments. You need a large number of sales to have any chance of recouping those costs.

E3D charge 43 GBP for the part, the other costs (tax and shipping) don't go into their pockets, so that's 63 USD. I'd guess that they have to sub-contract the manufacture, so E3D's profit per sale is likely quite small. For the size of the market, you're getting a bargain.

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Jata
I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build.
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan....
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost.
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.

I agree completely. $80 USD is way too much money. That is if we forget about the fact that many production CNC machines, used to make these parts, cost over $100,000. Oh, yeah, tooling needs replaced as it wears out. Tolerances need to be held. The parts need inspected. Some parts will have to be scrapped. Electricity isn't free.

Oh, yeah. CNC also has this neat little capability with parts. By the time you realize that something is wrong, you might not have scrapped just one part. You just scrapped hundreds or even thousands of parts.

Yes. $80 is way too much money to support this. How about you try it once and get back to us?

Better yet: Buy from straight from china. They will thank you by sending you something.

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JamesK

...snip...

The E3D V6 is IMHO (and with apologies to Brian) the best hotend currently available to the DIY market, and it almost certainly took man-years of effort to develop.

...snip...

Hello,

I would have released better J-Head hot-ends and have designs and/or prototypes made. I just absolutely refuse to spend another dime designing another hot-end so china can profit from it. I have learned, the hard way, that once china makes a cheap clone of something they flood the market with it and people flock to chinese sellers.

I am amazed that Ultimachine is still selling RAMPS boards after the chinese clones that tend to burn up.

It's both frustrating and sad, really.

Best Regards,

Brian

Wow....


To the OP....... E3D V6 Clone quality.... Poor to reasonable based on all the threads..... so highly variable would be the correct answer.

Some attitudes expressed and shown in the thread will absolutely ensure I don't buy certain products now or in the future.

I didn't buy a clone for my new printer despite the lure of a cheap price and actually ended up buying a DyzEnd hot end that has actually been paired with an E3D titan at the moment...... but then my new printer build is valued well north of 1k and likely is going over 2k before I finish so why try and save a few pennies on a clone.

However the person building the cheapest possible printer will NEVER lash out and buy a non clone unit so why get worked up...... better to educate where possible then shrug the shoulders and move on...

One thing missed in many of these threads but demonstrated by a couple people in another hobby of mine is to actually pair with Chinese manufacturing and imposing your own QA to get a quality product that you can then flood the market with.

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aussiephil
Wow....


To the OP....... E3D V6 Clone quality.... Poor to reasonable based on all the threads..... so highly variable would be the correct answer.

Some attitudes expressed and shown in the thread will absolutely ensure I don't buy certain products now or in the future.

I didn't buy a clone for my new printer despite the lure of a cheap price and actually ended up buying a DyzEnd hot end that has actually been paired with an E3D titan at the moment...... but then my new printer build is valued well north of 1k and likely is going over 2k before I finish so why try and save a few pennies on a clone.

However the person building the cheapest possible printer will NEVER lash out and buy a non clone unit so why get worked up...... better to educate where possible then shrug the shoulders and move on...

One thing missed in many of these threads but demonstrated by a couple people in another hobby of mine is to actually pair with Chinese manufacturing and imposing your own QA to get a quality product that you can then flood the market with.

Im with you on this , some people have a very bad attitude, its too bad they cant make a living out of that, but in the world today you cant make thing in the US/UK without a strong brand awareness anymore ( except if you have a very high tech narrow market ( CPU,GPU and such) and expect profit you have to team up with chinese and get a a good brand awareness.

Another similar example is the vape world, there are lot of clone and original floating around , all small brand trying to make similar product, none of them are US/UK manucfacturing only a few and they have a brand awareness (DNA by Evolv) and using only a few employers and robotic to stay in the price range others non electronic only out source to chinese and impose they QA, they use brand awareness to fight clone and educate they customer ( educate they customer is not going into forum to point finger at every thread someone make about one of those similar clone product, doing that in fact do more damage than anything).

Im sorry but the real problem here is not only the clone but E3D... they just steal your market , people chose a full metal hotend even if your plastic one have a similar or better performance, you dont see a lot of people buying real J-head clone now, its all about E3D clone. I was there when they start releasing they full metal hotend and people respond very good to that and they all jump ship to full metal. Even is the J-head was superior people see full metal vs a plastic one and think the full metal is a better quality because its made of metal and they think of other products they own where metal is superior to plastics.

Not willing to wade in any more on the clone versus genuine debate frankly it's a little old. The world is the way it is. You pays your money and takes your choice.

On the subject of nozzle hole sizes what I did is buy a set of micro drills and measure them with calipers then size the spurious nozzle possibly lightly drilling it to ensure its not jagged.

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Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions