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Timing belt Vs fishing line

Posted by Pawan 
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 02, 2016 09:03PM
Point

Xspurts here perhaps in manure spreading
not really commenting with solid data/experience


X-Spurt ...... X = unknown ...... Spurt = drip under pressure
Unknown drip under pressure


smiling smiley
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 02, 2016 10:56PM
cozmicray,

have you ever considered using complete sentences when you post? Most of the time your posts look like song lyrics with cryptic meaning that only you can understand and a melody that only you seem to know. Since you're going to the trouble to post stuff, perhaps just a little more effort would render your posts comprehensible to those of us who do not partake of hallucinogens. A little more punctuation might help...


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 03, 2016 08:22AM
@ggherbaz, I doubt that many on the forum are concerned about $5 one way or the other.

Speaking for myself, I seldom take anybodies word for anything, be they Doctors, Politicians, Physics teachers or even honoured members of the RepRap community - it doesn't mean that I don't value their opinions.Once I have done some checks for my own satisfaction I feel that I am on firmer ground and yes, I would consider using cord in a 3D printer.

Many of those on this forum are of the kind who see things like LoboCNCs Tendon printer ( [www.youtube.com] ) or maybe from outside the 3D printing arena, a Scanning Tunneling microscope that can see individual atoms ( [dberard.com] ) and say "I want to make that or something like that". It is only by trying that we get to do things that seem impossible at the time

Those who just want to buy a 3D printer or kit and print with it would be best off to avoid cord driven movements unless they have spookily good reputations. For those who are risk averse, use toothed belt to get good prints as it is well proven.

Mike



Quote
ggherbaz
This is just plain funny.......

Arguing about what is better a 5 dollars spool of spectra line or a 5 dollars roll of gt2 timing belt........... both will need the same amount of stuff to work.

I learned my lesson with fish lines and I'm not going back there, let the person that created this post to find by himself if ti works for him or not.

it is like a Ford and Chevy owner, no one will ever said the other brand is better and will always said the good things they have with it and intentionally forget the crappy ones.
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 03, 2016 01:26PM
leadinglights.

I agree with you, I'm exactly the same way. I like to try stuff for my self and learn from mistakes.

The main issue for me is this: for someone that starts with 3d printing the learning curve is already difficult, adding another difficulty may lead them to quit.
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 03, 2016 08:29PM
oops
spilled the magic mushrooms
dropped the joint clip
squirted whip cream up my nose instead of nitrous

I am one who do not partake of hallucinogens
but am typing challenged.

I HATE the long dissertation, thesis, monograph, opus, oeuvre, study, critique spewed out by most

Perhaps I have a assertve Power Point gene?

DD Like what your doing and saying

I'll try --- may get some dictation SW with grammar checker so I too can create
long dissertation, thesis, monograph, opus, oeuvre, study, critique answers,
perhaps in Hemingway or Clancy style

winking smiley

Quote
the_digital_dentist
cozmicray,

have you ever considered using complete sentences when you post? Most of the time your posts look like song lyrics with cryptic meaning that only you can understand and a melody that only you seem to know. Since you're going to the trouble to post stuff, perhaps just a little more effort would render your posts comprehensible to those of us who do not partake of hallucinogens. A little more punctuation might help...
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 04, 2016 04:08AM
@cozmicray, I can't say that I completely understand what you are saying but I do get a better sense of it even though I reject what you are saying.
The post that you quoted and seem to object to is four lines (on my screen) and one photo. It took less than an hour to do the test and write it up - no "long dissertation, thesis, monograph, opus, oeuvre, study, critique"
I would rather check my knowledge with real world tests than simply believe the first thing that comes to mind. I would also rather suffer from good grammar (sign of a miss-spent youth) than ambiguity.

Mike

p.s., I like you Wally printer.
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 04, 2016 01:25PM
Wally Chrome at



[forum.conceptforge.org]

Build was fun --- getting it to work total frustration

GUZUNDA now Goes Under the bench
never worked well --- all development and support dried up

Spectra line works great

confused smiley
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 05, 2016 09:02AM
Quote
Pawan
Which is better a timing belt or a fishing line?

There was a bit of conversation about what could be done with braided fishing leader cables back then: [forums.reprap.org]

My old sketches still work, too.

[forums.reprap.org]
[forums.reprap.org]
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 06, 2016 03:47PM
There has been so many threads about fishing line that one whole week of reading only on reprap forums won't be enough. It comes down to the same old discussions.

I have found a major showstopper for spectra the drive itself. The line is walking up and down a spool and unless you tackle in the firmware the trigonometry to calculate the steps/mm each time the angle changes slightly you will never get to a constant print. There was some promising development of a spectra drive which has unfortunately died. BUT, does it matter to you that loss of precision? I would guess it will depend on what you'll be printing with it.

In theory the marine fishing lines should not stretch and once pre-creeped they should be fairly stable. The real pain for me was driving it from motor without spooling it on a drum. In that regards Spectra is not a good power transmission medium. But again, it depends on your requirements. Such a spool can be placed in the other corner of a room and any angular deviation due to walking would be insignificant at the printing end. Spectra is cheap smiling smiley

The timing belt is built with some similar type of fiber (Kevlar or fiberglass) so it is basically some 10 strands of fiber embedded in a wavy (providing the "timing" bit) rubber matrix. If we wanted we could even print closed loop timing belts on a 3d printer, having some tiny grooves on the outer surface where to insert spectra loops. That would be reprap but would it be worth it? I guess timing belt is cheap enough.


RepRap Lander concept on Concept Forge
RepRap Lander concept on RepRap Forums
My Things, mostly experimental stuff
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 08, 2016 03:20AM
The sketch I posted showing a direct drive arrangement above [forums.reprap.org] has the spool winding on and off a machine screw thread with the pitch the same as the thickness of the cable, so the line doesn't "walk" as it winds on and off, remaining parallel with the guides and pulleys.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2016 03:24AM by murrayd.
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 08, 2016 05:20AM
If the cable winds on whatever (and it unwinds from the other end) then it walks. There is no such thing as non-walking on a fixed shaft. Not in my experience and logic. On the Lander Scara that I have worked on some time ago i solved the walking by letting the thread walk on both sides (see my sig if courious).

In my logic, if you let the motor turn in one direction only with your rig, the cable will walk away until it is too far away that it snaps. Unless you have a video of such a system that you show that if you leave the motor turning in one direction indefinitely it doesn't change position on the motor shaft.


RepRap Lander concept on Concept Forge
RepRap Lander concept on RepRap Forums
My Things, mostly experimental stuff
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 08, 2016 09:53AM
The spool is winding onto the screw thread as the line is winding. The spool is walking, the line is stationary, the thread pitch is the thickness of the line. Video to follow.
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 08, 2016 10:59AM
It looks like it ought to work to me...


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 08, 2016 11:03AM
Quote
murrayd
The spool is winding onto the screw thread as the line is winding. The spool is walking, the line is stationary, the thread pitch is the thickness of the line. Video to follow.

That's correct, its either the line walking or the support spool has to do translation movement in the other direction to keep with the walking of the line. I'm curious to see the video though.


RepRap Lander concept on Concept Forge
RepRap Lander concept on RepRap Forums
My Things, mostly experimental stuff
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 08, 2016 04:22PM
Has anybody worked out what the maximum error is in the simple case for a printer such as the Tantillus?

Mike
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 09, 2016 10:04AM
I just worked out the geometric error resulting from a "walk" of 6mm total for a simple Cartesian case - Prusa Mendel type printer. The maximum error that I got was about ±22 microns - just under 0.001"

I would show my working out but would probably be taken to task for perpetrating a "long dissertation, thesis, monograph, opus, oeuvre, study, critique" with the added offence of using Pythagoras theorum.

Mike
VDX
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 09, 2016 10:17AM
... my wire-driven XY-plotter (see the images in my post on the first side) had a working area of roughly 400x300mm and with 0.3mm thick steel wires I've got an error lower than the resolution of 1/40mm (25 microns) too -- the 'ripples' in diagonal lines, caused by resonancies with the half-step drivers were much more a problem ... but not so with the actual microstepping drivers winking smiley


Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 09, 2016 10:25AM
Quote
leadinglights
I just worked out the geometric error resulting from a "walk" of 6mm total for a simple Cartesian case - Prusa Mendel type printer. The maximum error that I got was about ±22 microns - just under 0.001"

I would show my working out but would probably be taken to task for perpetrating a "long dissertation, thesis, monograph, opus, oeuvre, study, critique" with the added offence of using Pythagoras theorum.

Mike

grinning smiley

About the results... those are very acceptable errors imho. I wouldn't have imagined it will be so low ...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2016 10:27AM by realthor.


RepRap Lander concept on Concept Forge
RepRap Lander concept on RepRap Forums
My Things, mostly experimental stuff
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 17, 2016 10:49AM
Dental Floss
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
May 17, 2016 02:44PM
Is this a contest for the shortest and most ambiguous replyconfused smiley
Mike

Quote
yoUmake-3d
Dental Floss
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
February 13, 2017 04:51PM
Quote
leadinglights
Is this a contest for the shortest and most ambiguous replyconfused smiley
Mike

Maybe.
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
February 14, 2017 12:54AM
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
February 14, 2017 01:25AM
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
February 14, 2017 02:05AM
I like your point Lobo.
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
February 14, 2017 03:43AM
Quote
cozmicray
...............................................................................................................
................................................................................................................
Perhaps I have a assertve Power Point gene?
...............................................................................................................
...............................................................................................................

Is that you Donald?
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
February 14, 2017 12:12PM
My Boots Industries V2.5 delta came equipped with line.
It was one of the first mods I made, to go to belts.
Even before I received the printer, BI had offered the belt conversion and boy was it needed!

Constant trouble with it, if it was not tight enough, it would mess up on the winding side, but it was very hard to get it tight enough.
It never printed reliable with the line (steel woven and coated line)

Now, this could be down to the engineering of the unit as much as the medium used, but for me it was crap.

Lykle
Re: Timing belt Vs fishing line
February 14, 2017 01:16PM
I did a number of experiments with fishing line a few years ago, ended up building 2 printers using spectra line, one based on the tantalus design, the other a CoreXY based machine.
You can build accurate printers using fishing line, but line tensioning is critical, and it's much harder to get right than you might expect.

A lot of the early line driven machines were delta machines, simply because they needed a lot of timing belt and there were really no cheap Chinese timing belts available when people were first experimenting with fishing line.
At this point the belt just isn't a major cost and IMO it's a superior solution, I wouldn't build another machine using fishing line.


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