New technique for ABS adhesion!

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LoboCNC

Do you know what type of polyester is in the transparency film you are using? 3M transparencies claim to be made of PET. Maybe a different formulation?

All the transparencies I researched and tested so far are made of polyester. The polyester itself offers good adhesion and these are formulated to withstand the temperature. PET undoubtedly withstands higher temperatures than polyester, and perhaps these 3M PET transparencies only have a surface coating so that the toner can stick to it and if it does, it will last very little. But just do a test.

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JamesK
Did a few more tests today. ABS adhered well enough to pull the transparency off the glass again, so on to another glue...
Petg seems to work really well on this surface, and since it doesn't shrink much it's less inclined to rip the sheet off the glass. On the other hand, I couldn't get enough adhesion with nylon to stop it from curling away from the bed. I suspect nylon will need an extra treatment on top of the transparency which is a shame.

When the film is fixed with epoxy, the ABS simply releases by itself when cooling because the film does not accompany its retraction movement.

I can't find anything about the manufacturer or the plastic used in the transparencies I bought - Apollo VCG7060. It seems to me that it's hard to say much that is meaningful about a lot of these plastics as most of the names used refer to generic families of chemicals.You'd need more specific information to compare one manufacturer's product to another. For example, polyester is a family of chemicals that includes PET, and PET itself seems to come in multiple forms. I guess all you can do is test a particular product and hope that the manufacturer doesn't change the content.

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JamesK
For example, polyester is a family of chemicals that includes PET, and PET itself seems to come in multiple forms. I guess all you can do is test a particular product and hope that the manufacturer doesn't change the content.

That's why I was wondering if it might be worth testing the McMaster PET/polyester adhesive backed film. If it works, the adhesive backing would be way more convenient than glue, and also, McMaster is pretty consistent with their sourcing.

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LoboCNC
That's why I was wondering if it might be worth testing the McMaster PET/polyester adhesive backed film. If it works, the adhesive backing would be way more convenient than glue, and also, McMaster is pretty consistent with their sourcing.

For sure it's worth trying. A lot will depend on the temperature characteristics of the adhesive. I see some of the 3M transfer tapes are rated to 200C or so. I'm currently using 3M indoor carpet tape (it was available at home depot and cheap), but the glue visibly melts by around 90C, so it's not going to be any good at ABS temperatures. I think it was LeadingLights that suggested lamination pouches - that sounds like it's worth a go too, but once again, I don't know what temperature the glue they use softens at. I have a sinking feeling that I'll end up trying epoxy in the end!

Oh, and TPU is another resounding success on the transparency foil - almost too much adhesion at the moment, and that beautiful glossy surface with no clean up

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2016 06:11PM by JamesK.

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JamesK

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LoboCNC
That's why I was wondering if it might be worth testing the McMaster PET/polyester adhesive backed film. If it works, the adhesive backing would be way more convenient than glue, and also, McMaster is pretty consistent with their sourcing.

For sure it's worth trying. A lot will depend on the temperature characteristics of the adhesive. I see some of the 3M transfer tapes are rated to 200C or so. I'm currently using 3M indoor carpet tape (it was available at home depot and cheap), but the glue visibly melts by around 90C, so it's not going to be any good at ABS temperatures. I think it was LeadingLights that suggested lamination pouches - that sounds like it's worth a go too, but once again, I don't know what temperature the glue they use softens at. I have a sinking feeling that I'll end up trying epoxy in the end!

Oh, and TPU is another resounding success on the transparency foil - almost too much adhesion at the moment, and that beautiful glossy surface with no clean up

The adhesive on the McMaster polyester film is rated for 275deg F (135 C), so that should be good for all but the highest temp filaments.

That sounds promising, depending on how conservative they are with the rating. The price is good though, so I've ordered a couple of sheets to try. I'm pretty sure that last time I tried to order from them they declined to ship to Canada, but it sure looks like they can do it. I wonder how much they are going to hit me for postage...

I was tested to remove epoxy from aluminum using acetone. I poured some acetone and covered with pvc film to not evaporate and let it act for 5 minutes. Acetone obviously does not dilute the epoxy, but it soften and lose grip ability! Then it is possible to scrape easily with a plastic spatula or even with the nails.

That's good to know - thanks for testing!

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JamesK
That's good to know - thanks for testing!

Before considering using on my aluminum bed, I am now gluing the film onto a small aluminum plate that I have here. I'll leave it to cure for 24 hours and try to remove. With a little luck, when pulling hard, the adhesion to the film may be greater and all the epoxy will come out along with it.

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ECJ
I was tested to remove epoxy from aluminum using acetone. I poured some acetone and covered with pvc film to not evaporate and let it act for 5 minutes. Acetone obviously does not dilute the epoxy, but it soften and lose grip ability! Then it is possible to scrape easily with a plastic spatula or even with the nails.

You can also use a heat gun to soften epoxy and then scrape it off.

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LoboCNC

You can also use a heat gun to soften epoxy and then scrape it off.

Yes, and it might even be a good idea to simply pull the film with the bed well heated. I'll do those tests soon.

When pulling the film, the epoxy was all stuck to the aluminum. Even when heated. But I was able to stir it using acetone as I described earlier.
Removing epoxy with a hot air gun is not a good idea. The epoxy begins to soften above 250ºC, and at this temperature only gives to scrape it with metal utensil, which damages the aluminum. Acetone is undoubtedly the best solution for this.

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JamesK
I'm pretty sure that last time I tried to order from them they declined to ship to Canada, but it sure looks like they can do it.

Ah, I remembered right:

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Due to the cost and complexity of shipping our products to Canada, we are only able to accept orders from businesses and schools. We’ve canceled your order.

Why they can't make that clear on their website is beyond me.

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JamesK

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JamesK
I'm pretty sure that last time I tried to order from them they declined to ship to Canada, but it sure looks like they can do it.

Ah, I remembered right:

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Due to the cost and complexity of shipping our products to Canada, we are only able to accept orders from businesses and schools. We’ve canceled your order.

Why they can't make that clear on their website is beyond me.

I'm about to order up a bunch of stuff from McMaster so maybe I'll order up a piece of the adhesive backed polyester.. If you PM me with your address, I'll send you a chunk. What's the size of your bed?

That's very kind of you. The bed on the new build is going to be 650x300, but I'm doing testing on a conventional 200x200 bed so that would be an ideal size to try out. I'll PM you my info.