DIY Or Assembled? Need help in buying printers

Hello Guys,
Me and my friend have decided to buy a 3D Printer and start some business in our locality . We are very much confused with buying a DIY or Assembled one . Our budget is approx $800 .
What you guys can suggest me ?

If you're in America or Canada, and have access to metalshaping toolss, check out this thread, it's quite recent;-

[forums.reprap.org]

Buy assembled, and modify to get maximum performance. That is one route.

The advantage of buying a kit if this is your first build, is that you learn a HUGE amount from the process. The disadvantage is, you are at the mercy of the kit manufacturer - and brand is no guarantee to kit quality (I've seen Ultimaker kits that were incomplete, not the Dutch guys fault, their UK supplier was out to lunch that day).

Ready made you have the same issue, really. At least with a kit, you have some idea of how it all went together.

Good book on building your first i3. Lots of other info in it too, but even if you didn't have much of a kit, this would help. (The Prusa I3 is a bit like the Model T Ford of the 3D printing world).

[www.amazon.com]

Also, if you are looking for local 3D printer enthusiasts, or metal shaping facilities you can use, research to see if you have a local Hackspace or Makerspace or Fab Lab. Just putting in your location to Google, add a space and "hackspace", press enter, and you should get a listing (if there is one).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2016 08:04AM by DragonFire.

One other point - check for local 3d printers already offering a service. There might be five competing already locally, joining up with one of them would make more sense than trying to compete with an $800 budget.

[www.3dhubs.com]

You mension that the printer is needed in order to start a small buisness. In my opinion, if the machine is required for a business the whole purchasing process should be assessed from a completely different perspective as opposed to getting a reprap machine for a beginner home enthusiast.

If it is important that the machine is always in working order then I would suggest a commercial machine from a supplier who offers good service.
If the 3d printer does not play a center role in your business than you could go for a kit. Or if you are not on a deadline and have general interest in discovering the world while havig fun you could go for a project of your own. This way you re going to learn the most.

If the printer is going to play a vital role in your business than I would suggest a tested, pre-assembled machine.

---

Self-sourced Mendelmax 2.0-based Reprap Machine -- Ramps 1.4 & Mega 2560 -- DRV8825 (Z@1A, [email protected], [email protected], E@1A) -- genuine E3D v6 direct setup -- 350W custom silicone heated bed -- ABS 1,75mm -- Marlin 1.1.0-RC7 -- Cura 15.04.6

You might check out the Prusa i3 from the man himself. This printer is getting great reviews.

[shop.prusa3d.com]

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icefire
If it is important that the machine is always in working order then I would suggest a commercial machine from a supplier who offers good service.

Excellent advice, can you supply a link to such a manufactured, pre-assembled printer for a price of $800? (Might be Canadian or Australian dollars, of course).

I doubt it.

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DragonFire

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icefire
If it is important that the machine is always in working order then I would suggest a commercial machine from a supplier who offers good service.

Excellent advice, can you supply a link to such a manufactured, pre-assembled printer for a price of $800? (Might be Canadian or Australian dollars, of course).

I doubt it.

I agree that it's excellent advice. And that getting it for $800 is impossible. But better to give good advice rather than advice that makes the OP happy (for now).

My view is that any 3D printer will cost you at least $1000. You can pay your $1,000 up-front when you buy it, or you can pay $300 up-front and $700 in time (at very low hourly rates!) and parts as you fix it. The more you pay up-front, the less effort in fixing it (hopefully).

If you're running a serious moneymaking (as opposed to part-time hobby) business relying on it, you can't say to a customer "It's not working well right now". And especially you can't say "We don't know when it *will* be working OK". You also don't want to be printing something 3 times to get one decent product. So I'd suggest you need to be in the $2,000+ bracket... either buy two $1,000 printers with the expectation that one will always be running while you fix/tune up the other, or buy one $2,000+ printer of commercial quality, and with good support from the manufacturer.

Another problem is size.... big printers, especially good ones, are more expensive. If you get a small cheapie with a 100x100x100 build volume, you'll be turning away customers who want stuff bigger than that.

If the $800 budget can't be increased, you *could* get a $300 printer kit, build it and get it working well and reliably, then open for business and buy your second $300 printer.

Commercial machines sometimes have as much downtime as repraps. If a part breaks, and you don't have it, then you are out of business whether or not it came with a swanky warranty.

My advice? Find a decent machine in the $500 range, and buy a 2nd machine as soon as funds allow.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2016 08:19PM by Origamib.

Right, so you ain't going to get a years call out engineer service to fix an assembled printer. At least we're agreed on that much.

This "you must pay X-Y-Z" is pure opiniion, with absolute no facts to support it whatsoever. It sounds more like "I paid a lot of money, so to be fair to my foolish choices, you have to pay too much money as well".

Personally I just my local Hackspace printers. That doesn't cost me anyway near $1000.

The downside is, I've got to help fix them when they don't work. Doesn't happen very often, I haven't actually been there for over a year now.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2016 09:04PM by DragonFire.

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DragonFire
This "you must pay X-Y-Z" is pure opiniion, with absolute no facts to support it whatsoever. It sounds more like "I paid a lot of money, so to be fair to my foolish choices, you have to pay too much money as well".

Personally I just my local Hackspace printers. That doesn't cost me anyway near $1000.

In guess that was directed at me... *I* certainly haven't paid a lot of money for a printer. My first was second-hand at US$300, my second a new kit US$225. In both cases, I've spent lots of time getting them going, keeping them going, and improving them. I'm happy with that (although irritated at the poor quality of parts of the kit), and (mostly) enjoy the tinkering and fiddling. But I would have to charge my time out at a lot less than Macdonalds pays for these printers to have cost me less than $1000 each.

I'd love to run a 3D printing business, but IMHO what I have is no basis for a business. Money-wise, I'd be better off flipping burgers than selling a 3D printing service. And I couldn't even provide a useful service to a customer... on any given day I might or might not be able to print what they want. On top of that, I would be competing with the local library (or Hackspace if there was one) which will print an object for a couple of bucks.

Just my opinion. It's an approximate representation of my experience. YMMV. Your opinion is fine too. Even though you also don't have any facts to support it whatsoever.

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frankvdh

My view is that any 3D printer will cost you at least $1000. You can pay your $1,000 up-front when you buy it, or you can pay $300 up-front and $700 in time (at very low hourly rates!) and parts as you fix it. The more you pay up-front, the less effort in fixing it (hopefully).

There's your FACT. Now follow the link I posted and appreciate how exactly you were blowing air out of the wrong hole when you posted it.

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frankvdh

If you're running a serious moneymaking (as opposed to part-time hobby) business relying on it, you can't say to a customer "It's not working well right now".

Sure you can. You maybe lose that customer if they're a complete moron, but that's not really a loss.

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frankvdh
So I'd suggest you need to be in the $2,000+ bracket... either buy two $1,000 printers with the expectation that one will always be running while you fix/tune up the other, or buy one $2,000+ printer of commercial quality, and with good support from the manufacturer.

I suggest you actually post what the OP was asking for, not some scribbled up notes on the back of a cigarette packet.

They got a BUDGET. That means a LIMIT. NO MORE MONEY. Understand?

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frankvdh
On top of that, I would be competing with the local library (or Hackspace if there was one) which will print an object for a couple of bucks.

Right, you live in a location where there is already a 3D printing service. The OP may or may not. Why do you think the whole goddam world is the same as your viewpoint? They might just be a success, and wouldn't THAT get on your nerves...

... screw this, I thought this was the reprap.org forum. Not "Buy commercial, ready assembled it's the only route" forum.

Yes, the OP will have a tough time with a business budget of $800. But they might just succeed. Give 'em a bloody chance.,

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 12:26AM by DragonFire.

On a more positive note, I could suggest an alternative business plan - go into 3D model design, and use 3D hubs to source printing facilities for your customers. They can post the parts straight to the customer (AFTER you have received payment and paid for the printing service).

The tough part isn't so much the model design as getting the public aware of what you design,

But no printer required for that sort of business. The tricky part is making sure your designs don't go public (the printing agency might leak them).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 12:42AM by DragonFire.

How about Delta 3D printer kits , I have seen many at cheaper price but also came to know its a bit tricky to assemble . For assembling a DIY how much time it will take approximately .I have no problem getting my hands dirty .
Since I think it will save my money

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 01:57AM by Angeline.

I know a bit about 3d printing , since I am using 3D Pen , Thanks for the link to the book , but I will prefer investing the money in filament

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Angeline
How about Delta 3D printer kits , I have seen many at cheaper price but also came to know its a bit tricky to assemble . For assembling a DIY how much time it will take approximately .I have no problem getting my hands dirty .
Since I think it will save my money

Cheap delta printer kits are like other cheap kits, but in addition to the usual build quality problems they are also hard to calibrate. If you want to build a delta printer, check out my blog and build a design based on my large Kossel or something similar similar. Several other people have published designs based on mine, usually with 2040 extrusion or V-slot instead of the 2020 that I used. Don't skimp on quality of parts. In particular, use metal vertices to get accurate geometry, Duet or Duet WiFi electronics to get the best print quality and auto calibration, and a PEI covered bed. You should be able to buy the parts for $800. Perhaps a little more if you want to use a Flex3drive or Zesty Nimble to avoid a long Bowden tube.

If you need a large print area then I wouldn't recommend a delta because it's not easy to go much larger than the 300mm diameter of my build.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2016 02:48AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Basing a business on a single $800 machine with no experience is rather risky (to put it mildly) but depending on your business acumen and luck could turn out quite well.

I would recommend making a more thorough analysis of the requirements for the printer instead of just the budget.

• For example, are you going to just print PLA or will you be printing ABS or Nylon?
• What other filaments will you print and what are their requirements?
• Do you need a heated bed?
• Is an enclosure necessary?
• Will you be printing Yoda heads or items that have very tight tolerances?
• Does your printer budget include venting or is that covered elsewhere in the business plan?
• You do have a written business plan don't you?
• Is a filament dryer necessary and if so, is it in the budget?
• Will one size nozzle work for all of your print jobs or will you need several sizes?

I built a delta with a similar footprint as DC42's. I am fortunate to have a friend with a large enough CNC machine to cut the parts for me (my CNC machine was too small). The materials cost over $700. Construction time was several weeks which was much shorter than the design time. If you are going to build a machine do you have the necessary skills and tools?

Unfortunately, no one can tell you what the best way for you to proceed because no one knows what skills and resources you have available. If you do have the skills to build one from scratch, then that would be my recommendation.

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DragonFire

They got a BUDGET. That means a LIMIT. NO MORE MONEY. Understand?

Actually, a budget is a plan. Maybe "approx $800" is a hard limit, maybe not. It's not actually stated. If it's a bad/difficult/unreasonable plan, then I think it's helpful to point that out, and why. It's better to adjust the plan (if possible) than to proceed with the plan in blind hope.

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... screw this, I thought this was the reprap.org forum. Not "Buy commercial, ready assembled it's the only route" forum.

Yes, the OP will have a tough time with a business budget of $800. But they might just succeed. Give 'em a bloody chance.,

Nowhere did I say "Buy commercial, ready assembled it's the only route". What I *did* actually say was "If the $800 budget can't be increased, you *could* get a $300 printer kit, build it and get it working well and reliably, then open for business and buy your second $300 printer." Nowhere did I say that they don't have a chance. I hope they do succeed, and accordingly I'm sharing what I have learnt. Obviously it doesn't coincide with what you believe, but a variety of opinions is a good thing.

@Angeline: Regarding cheap Delta kits: My second printer is a Delta built from a cheap kit. As provided, it was not fit-for-purpose. 3D-printed parts on it were too weak, towards the edges of the platform the rods interfered with the carriages and effector, etc etc. If I didn't already have experience with fiddling with 3D printers, I doubt that I would have got it working properly.

Just saw a website who are flooding with Flash Sale of a printer called Ultron 3D for $499 as basic price . Shipping is extra but it still in my budget . Today is last day of sale as on 31 st Oct and later they tend to increase the price . I googled a bit and found very few videos of the printer running , Initially I found suspicious but got there facebook page as 3dprinterkart . Had a chat with them also . Seems genuine on chat . But I still worry whether to go for this or not since not much heard about their website . Onlyone thing that I found safe that it supports paypal and I have a paypal account .To be more safe I contacted the Paypal customer support asking whether this website is registered with them and they said Yes ! and I can buy products .
But still I am bit frighten . On thing is I can get a great deal if the website is legit . They say the sale ends midnight today . What you guys have to say about this ?
Suggestions will be appreciated.

Hmm the Age of Ultron...I never heard of the printer but a link would'a'bin good, so we can all see the bargain...or not.

Here is the link [www.3dprinterkart.com]
The deal looks good . The video also seems good . But I bit confused and worried that the website is legit

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2016 09:28AM by Angeline.

I bought my first printer from Makerfarm years ago. It was a kit and he had excellent followup. I was able to contact him several times with questions and he was quick to answer (email). If you buy a cheap clone you may find out that the money savings was in the customer support area in addition to the quality of the parts. I can guarantee that you will have problems with the extruder and hotend on these clones (although this hotend is guaranteed not to run out of "coal"). Be careful about looking for the cheapest thing. I still recommend you look at the Prusa i3 MK2. Josef Prusa is a big name in RepRap. This is the first time he has been selling exclusively and his company has taken off because of this new design. Take another look.

A clone hotend is not necessarily guaranteed to have problems... my Delta has been very good in this respect (much to my surprise).

I notice an actual blower fan on the extruder, which suggests some thought has gone into this, rather than just the cheapest of everything.

Funny that the nozzle is described as "high precision"... it's just a standard 0.4mm.

I'd ask what the electronic hardware is (Arduino + RAMPS, some kind of integrated Arduino-based controller, or 32-bit). It seems a bit unusual in that it has a colour touch-screen and allows USB stick. And the loss-of-power resume feature is novel.

Hi Angeline,

As someone who is relatively new to 3D Printing and reprap, I'd like to share my own thoughts and experiences.

I believe that within your budget there will be no plug-n-play solution that will suit your needs. I thought the same thing, then quickly realized that proper calibration takes a lot of time, trial and error. Not to mention that many (not all) of the cheaper kits have other issues related to cost saving measures either mechanically or with the electronics. Additionally, if you are starting a business venture and have little to no experience with FDM printers yet, be mindful that prints take a long time. I know that I was surprised at how slow it really was at first.

Takeaways:
1. Learn as much as you can about the technology, it's simple in concept but very nuanced in practice, the more you know the better your end results and ultimately your satisfaction with your printer.

2. Kits are nice, but I'd also consider looking at some popular opensource designs. Personally if I were to piece together my own from scratch, I'd go for one of the more popular (and proven) designs from the reprap wiki or openbuilds.com like the D-Bot or Griffin Delta. This way you could source all of your own parts and decide where, if even necessary you are willing to cut corners.

3. Sourcing parts and building your own printer has a two-fold benefit. You'll likely get the best bang for your $$$ and you will learn a lot from the process. There are some incredibly detailed build plans out there that should be easy to follow if you have a relatively basic understanding of hand tools and are meticulous.

4. If the only options are Kit or Prebuilt? Buy a well regarded kit, don't buy from a no-name source otherwise you are playing roulette in terms of quality and support. You'll get the best price/performance ratio with a kit, the tradeoff is time spend with assembly and configuration/calibration which you'd likely have to at least partially do with a prebuilt.

-Joe

From my own experience, buy any printer you want that is within your range, expend the next few months experimenting with it until you know exactly what you are doing and once you can hit print and leave the printer alone and when you come back you have a perfect print, then start offering your services. It took me about six months to achieve that, but it worth it since I have the time to understand 3d printing and how to design a part that can be easily printed but most important to reject orders that will be more of a headache than a profit.
I supply services for to big companies one in Canada and one in Tennessee and to be honest like someone already mentioned, the real money is in the design not in the print.

Hope you guys succeed in your business.

Yes thanks ggherbaz you are right that quality is that matters . But finally yesterday I took a chance and ordered the Ultron 3D printer . There customer support seems good and answered to most of my question.
I did googled many kits . I zeroed down to Original Prusa i3 MK2 kit and Ultron . Because after seeing lot kits I feel only the original prusa i3 was best but again it went out of my budget . And in case of assembled the all prices seems to be more that $800 for decent print area . So I guess Ultron will be in between the Kits and branded assembled 3d printers . I will start with making small orders for students projects since they will not much complain about the quality like industrial customers . If the print quality is good the I will consider to approach the big companies .
Now I am excited to see my printer to arrive, it will take 7 to 8 days . I hope its not a crap but atleast a bit better than the kits so I will save my time in assembling .

Hmmm... looks like a Flashforge / Makerbot clone, with extra height.

Not a bad design, although the compact design makes them a bit fiddly to maintain.

Quite upgradable but should do OK out of the box, with some practice in getting prints to stick, etc.

Yes I expect it to be atleast better than kit and save my time in assembling . I didnt check that it has heatbed or not but after your comment I just went to website to check again and it has heat bed . Because some printers do not have heat bed and hence cheap . I ordered with acrylic enclosure but bit worried whether it will survive in shipping .

Yipee ! Finally the printer arrived today ! Here are some pics I took unboxing