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Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??

Posted by ampapa 
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 19, 2017 05:12PM
I'm sure that makes sense on paper but how much precision do you need? If you're laying down plastic with a 0.4mm nozzle?

Plus there are considerations of speed (both speed of motors and speed of controllers generating step pulses), then there is noise, since weren't not just aiming to own the ugliest, loudest, most-accurate machine possible, on the whole.

I've tried a lot of drivers and controllers and the 1/16th interpolated to 1/256 on tmc 2660 seems to suit 3D printing better than A4988s, drv8825, tmc2100, lv8729 whatever modes you run them in. Something better will come along but right now that's where it's at. The fact they come attached to an extremely well thought out controller board with great support is a bonus.


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 19, 2017 05:25PM
Quote
DjDemonD
better than A4988s, drv8825, tmc2100, lv8729 whatever modes you run them in. Something better will come along.

Smoothie now runs the A5984, which has the very good microstepping quality you'd expect from Allegros, but at 1/32 instead of 1/16, which is significantly more silent, and is getting very close to "going further makes it more silent but doesn't change accuracy" territory.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 19, 2017 05:29PM
Looking forward to it.


Simon.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters. PT1000 cartridge sensors plug straight into duet boards and others.
Published:Inventions
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 19, 2017 07:01PM
@arthurwolf,
From my point of view, 3 extruders is a must-have. So, can you post the status of the Smoothieboard v2 and associated extruder driver add-on board? And an indication of price?
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 19, 2017 07:05PM
That's a very rare point of view smiling smiley But we are working on making everyone happy, even the 50 extruders people.

We don't have pricing info on the boards yet. Our current estimate is for v2-mini to be $60-$80, v2 to be $130 and v2-pro to be well over $200. We don't know the pricing for the extruder board.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 19, 2017 07:39PM
Thanks.... status? i.e. when will they be available?
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 19, 2017 07:48PM
We don't know. We are making a lot of progress, dozens of volunteers are working on it, but it depends too much on volunteer work to be able to have a timetable. It's a collosal project.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 30, 2017 06:10PM
Long time lurker, first time poster.

I have a DeltaWASP 2040 that I am rebuilding. I had the beaglebone, duet wifi, and smoothieboard on my lists, after my ramps died. And I just want to say I am excited that the 2 main guys from SB/DW were posting in this thread. I have not made a choice yet on which board. I am still checking out which is more cost effective in the long run (with all the add-ons) and ease of firmware setup. Currently, I am running an E3D v6, but will upgrade the machine to a cyclops, I would love a probe too for auto-bed leveling.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 01, 2017 02:29AM
Quote
anstantanople
Long time lurker, first time poster.

I have a DeltaWASP 2040 that I am rebuilding. I had the beaglebone, duet wifi, and smoothieboard on my lists, after my ramps died. And I just want to say I am excited that the 2 main guys from SB/DW were posting in this thread. I have not made a choice yet on which board. I am still checking out which is more cost effective in the long run (with all the add-ons) and ease of firmware setup. Currently, I am running an E3D v6, but will upgrade the machine to a cyclops, I would love a probe too for auto-bed leveling.

Welcome to the forum!

You may also wish to consider the Duet Ethernet, which is the same as the Duet WiFi but as the name suggests it provides Ethernet instead of WiFi network connectivity.

Is that model of printer the one with the flying extruder, which I saw at a show a few years ago?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2017 02:31AM by dc42.


Delta printer calibration calculator, mini IR Z probe, and colour touch screen control panel: [escher3d.com]

Large delta printer, and other 3D printer blog postings: [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]

Disclosure: I have a financial interest in sales of the Panel Due, Mini IR height sensor, and Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 02, 2017 04:12AM
Nice thread smiling smiley

I'm also looking to buy a 32 Bit Board. For now i haven't find one that meet my requirements.
It should have six Stepperdrivers (Ok, Expansionboards exitsts) and the Firmware must have Mechanical-ABL (Like Repetier-Firmware with three independent Steppers).

The only thing i found about that was as best result "Under Development" everywhere i looked around.

Can someone tell me if i'm wrong?


Gruß
Siggi


Geeetech I3 Pro B 8mm Acryl - Mega 2560 - Ramps 1.4 - TMC2100 - MK42 - E3DV6-Clone 0,4 - SSR 522-1dd60-40 (A-Senco) - Marlin RC8Bugfix 26.12.2016 - Repetier Host - Windows 7 64 Bit
Forensuche ist zu langsam? Einfach Google nutzen -> site:forums.reprap.org +deine Frage in die Googlesuche eingeben smiling smiley
KLICK (Beispiel Stichwort Kaufberatung) <--------------------> KLICK (Beispiel Stichwort Schrittverlust) <-----------------------------> Was für 3D-Drucker gibt es? KLICK (Allgemeine Übersicht - Kartesisch - Delta - Scara)
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 02, 2017 04:38AM
Users have been known to get mech-abl to work with Smoothie, but it requires 3 and-logic gates and a bit of ingenuity, you can't do it 100% in firmware ( yet ).
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 02, 2017 05:23AM
Nice to read, but i'm not able to solve that i think. How about a shield solving that problem? smiling smiley
Or, would be best, implement this feature into the Firmware like Repetier? spinning smiley sticking its tongue out


Gruß
Siggi


Geeetech I3 Pro B 8mm Acryl - Mega 2560 - Ramps 1.4 - TMC2100 - MK42 - E3DV6-Clone 0,4 - SSR 522-1dd60-40 (A-Senco) - Marlin RC8Bugfix 26.12.2016 - Repetier Host - Windows 7 64 Bit
Forensuche ist zu langsam? Einfach Google nutzen -> site:forums.reprap.org +deine Frage in die Googlesuche eingeben smiling smiley
KLICK (Beispiel Stichwort Kaufberatung) <--------------------> KLICK (Beispiel Stichwort Schrittverlust) <-----------------------------> Was für 3D-Drucker gibt es? KLICK (Allgemeine Übersicht - Kartesisch - Delta - Scara)
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 02, 2017 11:30AM
It's possible already with RepRapFirmware, but the way it works is not ideal. See [www.duet3d.com]. It's on the list to implement properly soon.

RepRapFirmware runs on Duet, RADDS and Alligator. The recent Duets have 5 drivers on board, so you would need an expansion board to get a 6th. I believe RADDS can drive 6 steppers without an expansion board, but it doesn't have networking so you would lose the benefit of the web interface - which is one of the best features of RepRapFirmware.


Delta printer calibration calculator, mini IR Z probe, and colour touch screen control panel: [escher3d.com]

Large delta printer, and other 3D printer blog postings: [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]

Disclosure: I have a financial interest in sales of the Panel Due, Mini IR height sensor, and Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet.
VDX
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 02, 2017 01:44PM
... I have two different expansion boards for RADDS (yes, it has 6 sockets for motor drivers), adding 2 drivers and BlueTooth, or 3 drivers and WLAN - but haven't tested it with them yet ...


Viktor
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 02, 2017 06:58PM
Quote
dc42
Quote
anstantanople
Long time lurker, first time poster.

I have a DeltaWASP 2040 that I am rebuilding. I had the beaglebone, duet wifi, and smoothieboard on my lists, after my ramps died. And I just want to say I am excited that the 2 main guys from SB/DW were posting in this thread. I have not made a choice yet on which board. I am still checking out which is more cost effective in the long run (with all the add-ons) and ease of firmware setup. Currently, I am running an E3D v6, but will upgrade the machine to a cyclops, I would love a probe too for auto-bed leveling.

Welcome to the forum!

You may also wish to consider the Duet Ethernet, which is the same as the Duet WiFi but as the name suggests it provides Ethernet instead of WiFi network connectivity.

Is that model of printer the one with the flying extruder, which I saw at a show a few years ago?


Hello and thank you for the welcome!

Yes, the Wasp 2049 has the "flyby bowden" it is pretty clever and it was nice printing at 400+m/s (vase/spiraling mode of course). The original WASP 32bit board died. I fried my ramps since it couldn't handle the math a delta required. Plus performance was lackluster at best. I like the smoothie and duet equally, but I really like the panel due upgrade.

I'm okay with marlin firmware, and foreign to everything else. I have the original WASP firmware. One feature I would really like to keep is their "resurrection" feature. I'm just unsure how to recreate it from marlin. Would the duet already offer a similar feauture? Also, I imagine it to be quite easy to have a filament end sensor with the duet.

I will admit, the smoothie board documentaton is a bit easier for me to follow.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 03, 2017 02:28AM
Please explain what the "resurrection feature" is, to save me guessing and possibly getting it wrong.

Duet already supports switch-type filament sensors. We have a prototype advanced filament sensor too, which will be supported in firmware very soon.


Delta printer calibration calculator, mini IR Z probe, and colour touch screen control panel: [escher3d.com]

Large delta printer, and other 3D printer blog postings: [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]

Disclosure: I have a financial interest in sales of the Panel Due, Mini IR height sensor, and Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 05, 2017 01:16PM
I believe he is referring to this [www.wasproject.it] with regards to the resurrection part.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 05, 2017 01:50PM
Thanks, so it means resume after power failure and restore, as I suspected. We included 2 power monitors and an extra capacitor into the Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet for exactly this purpose, also the way we implement pause and resume is designed to be extensible to support resume after power off. However, we haven't implemented the remaining firmware support needed for resume after power failure yet.

Bear in mind that if the printer relies on a heated bed to keep the print attached to the bed, then this resume facility is only useful after very short power failures.


Delta printer calibration calculator, mini IR Z probe, and colour touch screen control panel: [escher3d.com]

Large delta printer, and other 3D printer blog postings: [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]

Disclosure: I have a financial interest in sales of the Panel Due, Mini IR height sensor, and Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 31, 2017 09:05AM
to be honest i have beginning with smoothieware clone from aliexpress because i was my first step in the 32bits world
arthur is very great guys which are already here to help us
the wiki is very very well made (it could be improve on small points)
the board has all features and more we need so for me i will never buy anything else than smoothie
i have never had a duet in my hand and i am pretty sure this board is good too..but for my only one screen touch support which cost very high is not a way i can go
i am waiting the next smoothieboard(not a clone this time) 1/128 micro step with one extruder support which will be apparently affordable(less than 90euro)


the only one feature i would like to see...it s an apk phone to control or check the print statue
duet and smoothie doesn t have this for the moment..
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 31, 2017 02:49PM
Quote
titeuf007
the only one feature i would like to see...it s an apk phone to control or check the print statue
duet and smoothie doesn t have this for the moment..

The Duet gives you complete control and monitoring of the printer from a smartphone, tablet or PC - or even from more than one at the same time. If you don't want to buy the touch screen, use your smartphone or tablet instead.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2017 02:51PM by dc42.


Delta printer calibration calculator, mini IR Z probe, and colour touch screen control panel: [escher3d.com]

Large delta printer, and other 3D printer blog postings: [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]

Disclosure: I have a financial interest in sales of the Panel Due, Mini IR height sensor, and Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 31, 2017 02:52PM
good to know
but you big bad point is you low screen compatibility..only one and it cost a lot!!
you board is well price but you screen is horrible higher than i can spend for this kind of feature!!
it s the only reason why i have not yet buy the duet
why don t add a compatibility with skm sbase screen which is really cheap

but finally this deux opensource and two board are great we can t go wrong if we choose one instead other

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2017 02:53PM by titeuf007.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 31, 2017 02:59PM
Once you've used either the touch screen or a smartphone to control a Duet, the old style low res mono graphics LCDs with the separate encoder feel really naff.

We're working on reducing the cost of the touch screen. But many Duet owners use a tablet or smartphone to control the printer instead.


Delta printer calibration calculator, mini IR Z probe, and colour touch screen control panel: [escher3d.com]

Large delta printer, and other 3D printer blog postings: [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]

Disclosure: I have a financial interest in sales of the Panel Due, Mini IR height sensor, and Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
July 31, 2017 04:34PM
I am currently working an a web interface for the smoothie board using raspberry pi3 and touch screen through its ethernet port, along with designing a corexy printer. I want to integrate the raspberry pi touch with the corexy, including calibration routines etc.


www.andornot.co.uk, selling new products, including smoothie boards and other useful parts for 3D Printers:

AndOrNot buildplate launched, available in 6 inch, 8 inch, 12 inch and 17 inch square introductory discount code "20reprap"
And Or Not Build Plates
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
October 20, 2017 05:46AM
Hi guys. I don't know if anyone still following this topic. It was very interesting seeing the debate about micro-stepping but a bit too complicated for me (@[email protected]) so this is what I understand:

1. About accuracy, let's say for example the load requires a torque of 9 steps to be able to move. The stepper is originally at 0. Now the user command it to move 8 steps.
In a system with high micro-stepping that can move in 1 step, it will move 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 but that is not enough to move the stepper as the torque required is 9, so the stepper stays at 0. The error is 8 steps.
In a system with low micro-stepping, that can only move in 5 steps for example. 2 scenarios may happens: The firmware round down the command from 8 to 5, the stepper try to move 5 steps, cannot move as it is lower than required torque, stops at 0 and we have the same error = 8 steps.
However if the firmware round up the command from 8 steps to 10 steps, it will be able to move to 10 as 10 is higher than required torque of 9. Then the error is 10 - 8 = 2.
So the system with low micro-stepping is potentially more accurate.

2. About torque, let's say we want to move from position 0 to position 10 in 10s.
In a system that can move in 1 step, it will move 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, each step take 1s.
In a system that can move in 5 steps only, it will move 5, then 10, each step take 5s.
As the torque is bigger when the displacement is bigger, trying to move to position 5 will give bigger torque compare to trying to move to position 1, 2, 3 ,4. Similar with trying to move to position 10. As the low micro-stepping system will have more time (5s) trying to move to position 5 and 10, it will give bigger total torque.

Is this correct?
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
October 20, 2017 01:20PM
Quote
WannaFly
Is this correct?

Visualize a stepper motor as having both a magnetic orientation and a shaft orientation. The connection between the magnetic field and the shaft behaves a lot like a spring or rubber band.

Just like a spring produces no force unless it is being forced to stretch or compress, a stepper motor is not producing any torque unless the shaft is out of alignment with the magnetic field. The shaft tries to follow the magnetic field, but if you introduce load and friction it will never be perfect.

Microstepping determines how precisely your electronics are able to orient the magnetic field. That is all. You are still controlling the stepper shaft though a spring.

When you make very small adjustments to the orientation of the magnet field using microstepping the motor shaft is probably "close enough" to the new position that it won't overcome friction until enough error builds up.



There is virtually no situation where moving the magnetic field in coarser steps increases performance, and this should be intuitively true if you understand the distinction between field and shaft orientation.

Sorry about the awful diagram, hopefully it conveys the overall idea.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
October 20, 2017 01:51PM
Thanks for that, it explains it better than I could have done.

Increasing microstepping above x16 in a 3D printer doesn't always increase resolution, but it does make the printer much quieter. [shameless plug] It's very common for users who upgrade their electronics to Duet WiFi or Duet Ethernet to ask about how to make their fans quieter. That's why RepRapFirmware supports thermostatic (based on CPU and driver temperatures) proportional PWM control of the electronics cooling fan, if any. Although since I enabled this on my delta, I have never heard the electronics cooling fan cut in - the TMC2660 drivers on the Duets typically don't need any forced air cooling unless you exceed at least 2A current.[/shameless plug smiling smiley]

Where resolution is important, instead of messing around with microstepping you should increase your steps/mm. You can do this by using motor pulleys with fewer teeth, or 0.9deg motors instead of 1.8deg, or higher gearing if you have a geared drive. In most 3D printer designs, it's only Z movement where you need to consider resolution. Although I recommend using 0.9deg motors in high-end delta printers, the improvement in print quality from using 1.8deg motors is small, to the extent that I recommend using 0.9deg motors for new builds but not to upgrade existing builds unless you have another reason to change the motors.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2017 01:53PM by dc42.


Delta printer calibration calculator, mini IR Z probe, and colour touch screen control panel: [escher3d.com]

Large delta printer, and other 3D printer blog postings: [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]

Disclosure: I have a financial interest in sales of the Panel Due, Mini IR height sensor, and Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 03, 2018 03:04PM
This is an old thread but, i have both duet wifi and x5mini wifi. Both are very difficult for me to set up. As far as people telling you what they like, how are they able to do that? This is the only place i have found where i can leave a comment about smoothie boards or specifically the x5 mini. And documentation is not that great either. Yes, there is basic info for simple setup but nothing at all for what if that didnt work! These boards should just work out of the box but they dont. I'm not happy with either board at this time.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 03, 2018 05:00PM
@brian444

Are we British? having a good old winge as the british are meant to do thats for sure....

1) there is an entire section on this forum for duet, and DC42 and others spend meany hours daily helping people out with their issues. Not to mention writing the firmware and designing the boards, Go there [reprap.org] and ask for help.

2) the x5 mini, although it runs smoothieware its is not a official smothieware board but once again, if you asking issues about smothieware itself there is an entire section for this also
[reprap.org] Not to mention the smoothieware site [smoothieware.org] which has everything documented.
There is also [www.panucatt.com] which documents your board and even gives instillation guides and example configurations.
Since there is not a specific azteeg_X5_mini section you should use the general Controllers section [reprap.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2018 05:02PM by Dust.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 03, 2018 05:41PM
Quote
brian444
This is an old thread but, i have both duet wifi and x5mini wifi. Both are very difficult for me to set up. As far as people telling you what they like, how are they able to do that? This is the only place i have found where i can leave a comment about smoothie boards or specifically the x5 mini. And documentation is not that great either. Yes, there is basic info for simple setup but nothing at all for what if that didnt work! These boards should just work out of the box but they dont. I'm not happy with either board at this time.

Brian, 3D printers vary so much that having any electronics board work out of the box is impossible, unless you buy the electronics as part of a printer kit so that the firmware or its configuration file are supplied pre-configured to match the hardware. So if you designed your own printer, you will always have to do some configuration.

For the Duet, we provide an online tool for generating the configuration and homing files at reprapfirmware.org. If you think it has a confusing number of options, that's because RepRapFirmware is so flexible. There is also a very active forum at [forum.duet3d.com] - I believe it gets more posts than this entire reprap.org forum. So if you need help with a Duet, please ask there. I generally also check the Duet section of this forum once or twice a day.

For Smoothieware, again there are forums that are more active than the Smoothie section of this one, for example [groups.google.com].

HTH David

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2018 05:43PM by dc42.


Delta printer calibration calculator, mini IR Z probe, and colour touch screen control panel: [escher3d.com]

Large delta printer, and other 3D printer blog postings: [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]

Disclosure: I have a financial interest in sales of the Panel Due, Mini IR height sensor, and Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet.
Re: Control board decision - DuetWifi or Smoothieboard...??
June 04, 2018 11:54AM
My only experience is with a smoothie board and smoothie ware. What has Duet got that I don't already have? I don't want to have to learn marlin so what am I giving up? I connect to my printer over my lan, I can upload files to the SD card from anywhere on my network. I use ponterface for my network interface.
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