Do we have a verdict on remote driver solutions?

I am trying to collect info on the flex3drive and zesty nimble. I know both of them are very new and the creators are also on the forum so they might provide some input.

What are the main differences? Anything that makes one better for an application compared to the other?

Is the print quality similar to what you can get on more established solutions (Titan/Wade/etc)?

Which one is the best option for dual material printing with them: 2 E3Ds in parallel or a Chimera? Or a Cyclopse?

Thanks...

I have a flex3drive it's a solid product been running it for over a year, enables a corexy or delta to have a lightweight print head which extrudes like a direct drive. 40:1 gearing so you don't need a big motor and neither is one recommended, as to get reasonable retractions which are never going to be fast (and don't need to be anyway that's received wisdom) you need a motor with essentially low mass and low current so it can change direction fast and spin fast. Come to think of it a dc motor would work with some sort of controller to ensure it turned that amount of rotations you needed for the filament required but that's another thing altogether.

Nimble hasn't been released yet I'm in the early bird list for one so anytime now really, if Michael Hackney is on here ask him, he had one at the recent MRRF festival to demonstrate. But it's very similar in concept a flexible driveshaft turns a worm gear which drives the filament. It's smaller and lighter than the flex3drive but we're talking 45g or 28g so I'm not sure that is too important, it's gearing is 30:1 so retraction can potentially be slightly faster but at the cost of torque. That being said 30:1 or 40:1 are both massive torque multipliers, a titan pushes filament nicely at 3:1 with a pancake stepper (20mm nema 17) so use of a nema 14 or even nema 11 motor would be possible with either, but these are harder to get and since you are locating them away from the print head there's nothing to be gained using lighter motors so use one if you have one lying around. Otherwise I'd say try a pancake motor it will reverse faster. Print quality is very good its an efficient direct drive extruder.

I strongly suspect there will be not a great deal to chose between them flex3drive has a good track record nimble is new, flex3drive is larger and heavier but not by much, flex3drive loading takes a bit of practice but is quick once you know how to do it, nimble has a breach loading system which if it works promises easier loading.

I don't know about cyclops or chimera but I believe both system can accommodate them.

I have a flex3drive and am happy with it and the support I have received from Mutley3D it's creator, I have also worked with Zesty on a few projects though am not financially tied to either and I hope my comments are even handed.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2017 01:19PM by DjDemonD.

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Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions

The Flex3drive has been out significantly longer, Mutley3D has a good background for researching his products and has been in the game a bit longer. He settled for 40:1 gearing, and the new guys have settled for 30:1 gearing. Flex3drive has got a few out in the wild, and a lot of people can help you out with it.

I'm not sure which will be better... Both are printed products, with a similar design. Both designers are pretty active, and actively help. I've not bought a flex3drive, but mutley3D has been great when I've bought other products from him.

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I know both of them are very new and the creators are also on the forum so they might provide some input.

Do you want to start a mud fight?
What's the point asking the creators about their opinion?

I have no issues doing a head to head when I get my Nimble on the same machine printing the same objects. But I have my very strong suspicions that there will be not much to chose between them.

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Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions

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o_lampe

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I know both of them are very new and the creators are also on the forum so they might provide some input.

o

Do you want to start a mud fight?
What's the point asking the creators about their opinion?

İ don't want to start any fight at all, I apologize if my wording gave you such an impression. However, when you consider about buying one,(they are quite expensive for an extruder) you start looking for comparisons and reviews. I haven't been able to find many online so I asked here. I don't expect them to start a debate between themselves but they could give an opinion about their design choices and what they can achieve with their creation. Users can also do that. It isn't much different than comparing an E3D V6 and a J head.

So, sorry again

Had a bit of a tuning session tonight with Mutley3D and got the flex3drive retracting at 30mm/s which is quite acceptable. Greatly appreciate the help. Jason was very helpful in providing me settings to change to improve the extruder's performance.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2017 07:51AM by DjDemonD.

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Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions

First of all, I like these kind of posts as they ask for honest opinions and facts.
I don't want a mud fight either and will never put a competitor down, so I will only talk about the Nimble. That keeps it clean.

I can tell you exactly where and why we feel the Nimble is better, but I would prefer to have an independent reviewer comment on it.
So in that respect you will have to wait a little while longer. For sure, there will be comparisons done.

Nevertheless, you asked, so here are some points that I really like about the Nimble:
Flexible mounting, as it is ambidextrous.
Easy to upgrade to a Dual, re-use what you have, no need to buy a complete new dual extruder.
Easiest method to insert filament, open breech, see hot end top, slide it in, click, done.
Lightest RDD at 27 grams.
Wide range of adapters to fit next to any printer.
Very active development, looking at high temp Nimble and with a continuous stream of new adapters.
30:1 allows for faster prints, especially on the somewhat older boards. Without sacrificing precision or longevity of the parts.
Oh and I simply love the garbage chute to get rid of the chaff without opening the Nimble.

That is where I will leave it for now.
Looking forward to a good discussion about it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2017 06:43AM by Lykle.

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Lykle
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Co-creator of the Zesty Nimble, worlds lightest Direct Drive extruder.
[zesty.tech]

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Lykle
First of all, I like these kind of posts as they ask for honest opinions and facts.
I don't want a mud fight either and will never put a competitor down, so I will only talk about the Nimble. That keeps it clean.

I can tell you exactly where and why we feel the Nimble is better, but I would prefer to have an independent reviewer comment on it.
So in that respect you will have to wait a little while longer. And I trust DJDemonD to do just that, if he can find the time to do so. But for sure, there will be comparisons done.

Nevertheless, you asked, so here are some points that I really like about the Nimble:
Flexible mounting, as it is ambidextrous.
Easy to upgrade to a Dual, re-use what you have, no need to buy a complete new dual extruder.
Easiest method to insert filament, open breech, see hot end top, slide it in, click, done.
Lightest RDD at 27 grams.
Wide range of adapters to fit next to any printer.
Very active development, looking at high temp Nimble and with a continuous stream of new adapters.
30:1 allows for faster prints, especially on the somewhat older boards. Without sacrificing precision or longevity of the parts.
Oh and I simply love the garbage chute to get rid of the chaff without opening the Nimble.

That is where I will leave it for now.
Looking forward to a good discussion about it.

Thank you very much for your input. Just a few questions, if you have some time to answer them:

1) What do you mean by "high temp Nimble"? Does it mean a Nimble more resistant to higher temperatures? Why would you need this specifiaction, as the extruder is normally considered a cold part and there normally would be no need to have a heat resistant version. Of course, there could be the case where the printer is enclosed and has ambient temperature control, so it would need to be able to work at 70-80 degrees.

2) How do you make the connection with the hotend? I have a E3DV6, mounted on a horizontal custom made X carriage. The E3D slides into the carriage from its top part and you have to put the extruder on top of this. Do we need an adapter to make the connection or is it similar to how Titan is connected to the E3D?

3) I checked your web site and the only option for buying is to use Paypal. Do you plan on supporting other payment methods? Unfortunately, we can't use Paypal since June 2016 here (Turkey), so this makes it quite problematic to make an acquisition (that problem also exists for Flex3drive I think)

4) What do you think about using 0.9 degree steppers with the Nimble? You have mentioned that due to the gearing ratio, the steps/mm was already high. Would it support a 0.9 degree stepper? f course, we should also consider we are using 0.9 degree steppers for the X and Y axis.

Thanks

Do you end up with alot of chaff? Sounds like you are grinding the filament a bit.... What's the solution there? I understand you can't adjust idler tension on the nimble.

Not picking a fight, just observation... I rarely have chaff unless I've personally messed something up

@drmaestro

1 High temp Nimble. Yes we were asked to look into making a Nimble for a high temp enclosure environment. 80C and up. We can do it.

2 Connection with the hot end is done in various ways depending on the printer. The Nimble comes standard with a Groove mount adapter. This is how I use the Nimble on my V6. See second photo here. If needed, we will design an adapter for you, free of charge. We already have a big list of adapters and it is growing. Just give me the specs and it will happen.

3 Paypal. That is an issue and to be honest, I did not know that there was an issue with Paypal in Turkey. You could contact me directly and do a payment to the bank, but that it not a nice thing for you, as it will take away any of the protections Paypal offers. I know we can be trusted with the money, but it is then purely a matter of trust and I do not want to put you in that position. I will see what I can do here. (Besides, as our bank account is in Cyprus, I am not sure if you could even transfer money to it. hmm, not sure)

4 Yes it will, there is no reason for a 0.9 deg stepper not to work. I have used a 0.9 deg Nema 14 as a test and had no issues with it. If all you have are 0.9 deg steppers, use it.

@Origamib
Ha! No, not at all. It was more the moment where we discovered we could add the chute that was the nice part. Now that we are using our custom hob and not one hobbled together with a tap and jig, I have not much use for it. In fact, have not cleaned it since I have installed the production hob.

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drmaestro

3) I checked your web site and the only option for buying is to use Paypal. Do you plan on supporting other payment methods? Unfortunately, we can't use Paypal since June 2016 here (Turkey), so this makes it quite problematic to make an acquisition (that problem also exists for Flex3drive I think)


Thanks

If you have a problem with paypal then its a paypal issue there isn't any need to mention the Flex3drive in the same sentence

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chris33

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drmaestro

3) I checked your web site and the only option for buying is to use Paypal. Do you plan on supporting other payment methods? Unfortunately, we can't use Paypal since June 2016 here (Turkey), so this makes it quite problematic to make an acquisition (that problem also exists for Flex3drive I think)


Thanks

If you have a problem with paypal then its a paypal issue there isn't any need to mention the Flex3drive in the same sentence

Hi, I mentioned it because it also provides Paypal as the only way to pay for it. So, basically, if you are in the market to buy a remote drive extruder, if you can't use Paypal, you can't buy any.

This is just a remark and not the fault of the creators, and maybe I am the only person affected by it, but it should be mentioned as this is a comparison thread.