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Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.

Posted by DjDemonD 
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
March 09, 2019 03:11PM
Is there a step file available for the Andromeda?
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
March 09, 2019 07:19PM
did you see the drawing on the website? its pretty easy to bang out from the dimensions on the drawing I used that and guessed at the chamfered corners being 4mm and the board 1.6mm thick. it worked out close enough.

i put it, and the board model object, and holder i created in my thing- [www.thingiverse.com]
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
March 09, 2019 08:24PM
Thanks
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
March 14, 2019 01:39PM
I got the orion module with self printed parts to integrate it in my machine.
Once set up and tuned properly it is super reliable/precise.

But there is one issue I struggle with.
Quite often when I turn off the printer after a longer print job and turn it back on the next morning, the module is behaving completely erratic.
Either triggering all the time or not at all or switching between the those states.

After letting the printer print for a while (10 minutes to 1 hour) it will usually return to normal operation.

I suspect this is to caused by the temperature changes.
Maybe the printed parts building static pressure after cooling down?

Or any other hints?

I printed the parts in PETG? Is that a good idea?
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
March 15, 2019 04:31AM
I checked today again with the same issue.

I have another thought - do you fix the screws that fix the module from the top?
Maybe those are coming lose from operation.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
March 16, 2019 09:23AM
I think my board is fried. I finally got it wired up enough to test it. Powered it on, and it got super hot and my LCD turned off. No LEDs on, no nothing. It is wired as printed on the board (V+ SIG GND). I don't know whats going on. Maybe its my fault, not sure. Any suggestions? TIA

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2019 09:24AM by veaceonee.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
March 17, 2019 05:45AM
Are you the customer who contacted me via the website? If so I have replied to your email.

The behaviour you describe suggests you may have connected the board incorrectly, the connections on the board are V+, GND, SIG. Unfortunately, if the board got very hot it is likely that you have fried it.

Idris


{Precision Piezo} Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 02, 2019 08:58AM
Hello everyone,
does someone have a link to the mentioned marlin fork and/or a link to some detailed instructions as to how marlin needs to be configured for the piezo to function? I cannot find the marlin fork at all. also the only sets of instructions I could find are either so broad they skip numerous steps or they are so specialized they apply only to special cases.
Also I'd like to mention that the instructions for the hardware installation of the PCB v2.75 need to be updated as the pins on the PCB are now in the same order (S / G / V) as the RAMPS pins. The constantly reoccurring statement that the order is not identical is extremely confusing.
Thank you all very much for your help!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2019 08:59AM by kulfuerst.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 04, 2019 11:37AM
I have a 27mm piezo sensor on a Rostock Max, but I can't seem to get it interfaced with my RAMBo and Repetier Firmware properly.
I've reflashed the firmware many times, each time changing a setting. I have tested an entire matrix of probe/endstop settings.

I'm certain it is wired correctly from Piezo20 to RAMBo, as I color coded the connectors, and I verified the piezo is in the proper polarity (no trigger on pressure release)

In Repetier Firmware I've tested all combinations of true/false for Z_PROBE_ON_HIGH, ENDSTOP_PULLUP_Z_MIN, and inverted Z Min logic. No matter what it either gives me Z probe triggered before probing, or the Z probe didn't untrigger on repetitive probe; only in two instances of the second situation did the carriage actually do a probe plunge and not raise instantly.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 07, 2019 05:53AM
Is this forum still active???
I'm having an issue where I cannot z-probe, because my z-min endstops trigger slightly above the bed. When probing, the triggering z-min endstops cause and error and probing fails. I've not found any way to solve this (turning off z-min endstops when probing would be a solution but this doesn't seem to exist in marlin). Does someone here have an idea?
Artificially raising the bed above Z=0 (the endstop trigger point) by laying a sheet of metal onto the build plate enabled probing. The detailed logging without the sheet metal and build plate below Z=0 looks like this:

Send: G30
Recv: >>> probe_pt(95.00, 10.00, stow, 1, probe_relative)
Recv: current_position=(95.00, 10.00, 10.77) :
Recv: >>> do_blocking_move_to(95.00, 10.00, 10.77)
Recv: <<< do_blocking_move_to
Recv: current_position=(95.00, 10.00, 10.77) : set_probe_deployed
Recv: deploy: 1
Recv: do_probe_raise(10.00)
Recv: >>> do_blocking_move_to(95.00, 10.00, 10.77)
Recv: <<< do_blocking_move_to
Recv: current_position=(95.00, 10.00, 10.77) : >>> run_z_probe
Recv: current_position=(95.00, 10.00, 10.77) : >>> do_probe_move
Recv: >>> do_blocking_move_to(95.00, 10.00, -10.00)
Recv: <<< do_blocking_move_to
[...]
Recv: echo:busy: processing
Recv: current_position=(95.00, 10.00, -0.04) : sync_plan_position
Recv: current_position=(95.00, 10.00, -0.04) : <<< do_probe_move
Recv: SLOW Probe fail!
Recv: current_position=(95.00, 10.00, -0.04) : <<< run_z_probe
Recv: current_position=(95.00, 10.00, -0.04) : set_probe_deployed
Recv: deploy: 0
Recv: >>> do_blocking_move_to(95.00, 10.00, -0.04)
Recv: <<< do_blocking_move_to
Recv: current_position=(95.00, 10.00, -0.04) : set_probe_deployed
Recv: deploy: 0
Recv: Errortongue sticking out smileyrobing failed
Changing monitoring state from "Operational" to "Error: Probing failed"
Changing monitoring state from "Error: Probing failed" to "Offline (Error: Probing failed)"
Connection closed, closing down monitor

Changing Z-Offset to varying values had no effect
Turning off software endstops had no effect
Disabling pullups for Z_MIN permanently triggered Z_MIN, made no downward movement possible
Config files.zip
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 07, 2019 10:26AM
You don't need a special fork or Marlin for this probe, as far as the firmware is concerned the probe behaves exactly like a normal, mechanical, endstop switch.

It's been a very long time since I've had to deal with Marlin. Are you using a z-min endstop as well as a Z-probe? You shouldn't need both, the Z-probe takes the place of a Z-min endstop.

Idris


{Precision Piezo} Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 07, 2019 10:41AM
It's been a while since I did any Marlin config but I think you need to enable Z_MIN_PROBE_USES_Z_MIN_ENDSTOP_PIN
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2019 05:21AM
I'm using dual Z-Endstops as well as the Probe. This is for the simple reason that the dual Z-Endstops enable automatic alignment of the X-Axis, which is a feature I greatly appreciate and would not want to sacrifice.
If using both the Piezo as a probe AND the endstops isn't possible, this would be a massive draw back of the system compared to probes like the Bltouch, which is often used in combination with endstops.

I have posted a detailed description of the issue in the reprap forum Home > Printing > Z_MIN endstops interfere with Z-probing
I've also posted a bug report on Github
I've mounted the piezo using a system I have developed myself and tested thoroughly. It's right here on Thingiverse

Help is not only greatly appreciated, but I am literally helpless, I have been spending weeks now on this issue and haven't been able to make any progress. The probe itself, in case this isn't clear, works flawlessly!

If someone has the piezo set up in a combination with endstops, please feel free to contact me directly! andre.nettermann@googlemail.com

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2019 07:47AM by kulfuerst.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2019 07:52AM
I dont think that using any nozzle-based Z-probe with a separate Z-endstop will be possible unless you can arrange for some amount of further Z-travel after the endstop has been triggered. Or perhaps if you can get the nozzle away from the bed in X or Y and thereby allow the bed to continue past the point at which the nozzle would touch the bed.

I think that the reason this works with inductive probes and the BLtouch is that they allow the bed to continue moving beyond the Z-probe trigger point, this is not possible with the piezo probe but this would be a limitation of any Z-probe that uses the nozzle as the probe, not just piezo based ones.

I don't know whether Marlin is capable of it but I believe that RRF on the Duet can probe the bed at specified points and use that information to drive independent Z-axis motors without needing Z-endstops.

Idris


{Precision Piezo} Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2019 01:20PM
Quote
kulfuerst
I'm having an issue where I cannot z-probe, because my z-min endstops trigger slightly above the bed. When probing, the triggering z-min endstops cause and error and probing fails. I've not found any way to solve this (turning off z-min endstops when probing would be a solution but this doesn't seem to exist in marlin). Does someone here have an idea?

So if I'm reading what you want correctly... (Also from the other post in Printing)

You have 2 endstop switches already, which you want to keep using, except for while probing, when you want the printer to ignore them.

I don't think that there's any firmware out there that does that. If you set it up to use the 2 endstop switches, then it will use those, and it won't allow you to go below that point. If they aren't accurate enough for you, then you want to use the piezo probe. Using both is kind of silly. If the piezo probe is what you want (for mesh compensation, for example) then use that for everything, including your Z endstop. If the endstops are good enough, then use that, and don't bother with the piezo probe. Even if you could "turn off" the Z endstops in order to run a mesh compensation, will the mechanism allow the Z axis to go below it's measured zero? There are ways to do it, of course, optical endstops usually aren't hard limit switches for example, but the most common ones use microswitches which will also physically limit the travel of the axis. Well, let's assume that you have switches that will physically allow extra travel for the time being.

RRF on a Duet can indeed drive separate Z motors to level the bed (I do this for 2 motors.) I didn't think that Marlin could do that -- I've never seen anything on Marlin that indicates that it can deal with multiple drivers for a given axis, but I will admit that I've never looked for a way to do that, since the boards that I've run Marlin on aren't capable of connecting things that way.

If you insist on doing this, I would likely implement a wiring solution. Marlin DOES have a trigger to "deploy Z probe" which could be used to trigger a relay which bypasses the endstop switches. Or at least I presume that it does, in order to work with things like the BLTouch.

Normally open endstops: Use a relay to keep the output pin open.

Normally closed endstops: Use a relay to short the output pin to ground.

So your probing would trigger the "deploy probe" which would disconnect the Z endstops. Probe the bed (Be careful that your Z probe offset matches the endstop offset EXACTLY) for mesh compensation, then enable the endstops again. This will at least get around the problem.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2019 01:50PM
Quote
SupraGuy
You have 2 endstop switches already, which you want to keep using, except for while probing, when you want the printer to ignore them.

I don't think that there's any firmware out there that does that. If you set it up to use the 2 endstop switches, then it will use those, and it won't allow you to go below that point. If they aren't accurate enough for you, then you want to use the piezo probe. Using both is kind of silly. If the piezo probe is what you want (for mesh compensation, for example) then use that for everything, including your Z endstop. If the endstops are good enough, then use that, and don't bother with the piezo probe.

All I really want to do, is use both: endstops and probe. This isn't unusual at all. In Marlin you select either
#define Z_MIN_PROBE_USES_Z_MIN_ENDSTOP_PIN
if you want to use the probe as an endstop, or
#define Z_MIN_PROBE_ENDSTOP
in which case you define the Pin your probe is using and you can use both. An option used by many according to all those google searches I have been phrasing throughout the last few weeks.

I want to use the probe additionally to my endstops. Using both systems, if they can be set up to work together, would actually grant me an incredible variability and flexibility.
If I decide to use only the probe, I lose functionality. If I decide to use only the endstops, I neither gain nor lose functionality. If I use both, I gain numerous capabilities. I therefore don't see why I should give it up. Marlin should already be capable of utilizing this btw, but Z_PROBE_LOW_POINT unfortunately doesn't work for whatever reason. I'm curious to see what the reply to my bug report will be. Maybe it's only set up for single Z-endstop systems and can't handle two Z-endstops yet. idk

If I can't get Marlin to function the way I need it to and the way it should be capable of, I have some work arounds in mind as well, that all come with their particular downsides though. Thank you very much for your suggested solution. I'll keep that option in mind, although I'd prefer to solve this in firmware at the moment.

Quote
SupraGuy
RRF on a Duet can indeed drive separate Z motors to level the bed (I do this for 2 motors.) I didn't think that Marlin could do that -- I've never seen anything on Marlin that indicates that it can deal with multiple drivers for a given axis, but I will admit that I've never looked for a way to do that, since the boards that I've run Marlin on aren't capable of connecting things that way.

The Anycubic i3 Mega comes shipped with two Z-endstops, motors and steppers. In Configuration_adv.h you can set up dual motors, steppers and endstops for one axis if you want to do it yourself. I absolutely love this function!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2019 05:04PM by kulfuerst.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 08, 2019 06:40PM
Quote
CodeBuster
I have a 27mm piezo sensor on a Rostock Max, but I can't seem to get it interfaced with my RAMBo and Repetier Firmware properly.
I've reflashed the firmware many times, each time changing a setting. I have tested an entire matrix of probe/endstop settings.

I'm certain it is wired correctly from Piezo20 to RAMBo, as I color coded the connectors, and I verified the piezo is in the proper polarity (no trigger on pressure release)

In Repetier Firmware I've tested all combinations of true/false for Z_PROBE_ON_HIGH, ENDSTOP_PULLUP_Z_MIN, and inverted Z Min logic. No matter what it either gives me Z probe triggered before probing, or the Z probe didn't untrigger on repetitive probe; only in two instances of the second situation did the carriage actually do a probe plunge and not raise instantly.

Here are all the results I got, Idris, with changing Repetier firmware settings. The only thing I kept constant was that Z probe pin is the Z Min pin, and ENDSTOP_Z_MIN = true. I realize that the Piezo20 works by pulling SIG low, thus requiring pullup, but I wanted to test it anyways.

Result denotes a scenario: 1 is triggered before probe starts error. 2 is probe didn't untrigger on probe.
The letter in that column denotes the physical movement made after G30 P0 was sent. P is where the effector actually descended and touched an object, whereas i occurs in a configuration that caused instant raising of the probe.

ENDSTOP_Z_MIN_INVERTING
Z_PROBE_ON_HIGH
ENDSTOP_Z_MIN_PULLUP

M119 TRIGGERED (BLUE)

ZMIN/PROBE

RESULT

M119 UNTRIGGERED RED

ZMIN/PROBE

X
X
Y
L/L
1i
L/H
Y
Y
Y
L/H
2i
L/L
Y
X
Y
L/H
2p
L/L
X
Y
Y
L/L
1i
L/H
X
X
X
L/L
1i
L/H
Y
X
X
L/H
2i
L/L
X
Y
X
L/L
1i
L/H
Y
Y
X
L/H
2p
L/L
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2019 06:42PM by CodeBuster.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 09, 2019 02:48AM
Quote
SupraGuy
You have 2 endstop switches already, which you want to keep using, except for while probing, when you want the printer to ignore them.

I don't think that there's any firmware out there that does that.

RepRapFirmware can do that.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 09, 2019 04:47AM
@CodeBuster,

Sorry if I appeared to ignore your question, I didn't intend to. Have I talked with you about this issue on another platform? It can be hard matching up email addresses and forum names so forgive me if we've already covered some of this.

Unfortunately I have no experience with Repetier firmware so I'm afraid all I can do is run through verifying with you that the output of the Piezo board is as expected. Hopefully, other people with more experience of Repetier will be able to help you with the firmware setup.

With the pullup enabled, measure the voltage of the pin on the RAMBo, without the piezo PCB plugged in, should be 5v
Plug in the Piezo PCB, red LED on, measure the voltage of the SIG pin on the piezo PCB, should be 5v
Turn VR2 to illuminate the blue LED, measure the voltage of the SIG pin, should be 0v (or very close)
Turn VR2 back to illuminate the red LED, tap the piezo and check for blue LED flash.
If you can, measure the voltage of the SIG pin while tapping the piezo, you should see some reaction but it may not reach 0v as multimeters typically measure quite slowly and the output pulse is quite brief.

If all these things are responding as expected then you have a configuration/firmware issue, I wish I could help more with that but I've never used Repetier.#

Idris


{Precision Piezo} Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe plus piezo discs, endstop cables, pt100, 50w heaters.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 09, 2019 08:48AM
I had sent an email since the forums were unavailable to me for a day, but I was able to make the forum post before you replied.
I shall verify the Piezo20 is working electrically, but I do believe it is firmware. The table is for the benefit of everyone. More data is good.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 09, 2019 10:29AM
"Z_PROBE_LOW_POINT unfortunately doesn't work for whatever reason."

I am confused, but that is SOP.

My interpretation is that the above will allow Z to go x distance beyond where Z_PROBE triggers.
It sounds like you want to go x distance beyond where Z_MIN triggers.

I can understand 2 endstops being used with 2 motors to enable racking adjustment but what other benefit does 2 endstops have?
And why would you have 2 endstops enabled at the same location? You are saying Z_MIN is invalid, just keep trucking til Z_PROBE triggers.
I don't think there is a Z_MIN_LOW_POINT function in Marlin. It doesn't make logical sense to me to have that function. If the probe is the endstop then disable the other endstop.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 09, 2019 12:27PM
Quote
ruggb
My interpretation is that the above will allow Z to go x distance beyond where Z_PROBE triggers.
It sounds like you want to go x distance beyond where Z_MIN triggers.

See here. I may have finally found a solution, but I have to figure out how to implement it, I've got no experience coding.

Quote
ruggb
I can understand 2 endstops being used with 2 motors to enable racking adjustment but what other benefit does 2 endstops have?
And why would you have 2 endstops enabled at the same location? You are saying Z_MIN is invalid, just keep trucking til Z_PROBE triggers.
I don't think there is a Z_MIN_LOW_POINT function in Marlin. It doesn't make logical sense to me to have that function. If the probe is the endstop then disable the other endstop.

See further above for an explanation why I am handling things this way.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2019 12:28PM by kulfuerst.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 09, 2019 12:54PM
Sorry, I am still confused.
My piezo nozzle probe is also my Z endstop and functions perfectly. I have no other Z endstop. I only have one Z motor.

Reading the above and the Marlin bug report indicated to me that having a mechanical endstop and a nozzle probe/endstop is not going to work. There is repeated verbage by thinkyhead about disabling the mechanical endstop.

If what you want is the same thing I have, I don't know what is preventing you from achieving that. It sounds like that is in fact what you have if you remove the other Z endstop.

Why isn't that working for you?
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 09, 2019 04:35PM
I successfully solved the issue by implementing the code found here in endstops.cpp. Everything now functions exactly as intended!

So after arguably several problems during the setup an tuning of my piezo sensor, it now finally works, and how it works! In case you'd like to add my universal piezo mount to your catalog, you can find it right here on Thingiverse.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2019 05:30PM by kulfuerst.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 09, 2019 07:50PM
congrats, feels good doesn't it.

I still can't figure out what you are doing, but in Marlin V2 there is code for 3 endstops.

Total mystery to me...........
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 10, 2019 04:35PM
I am using Marlin 2.0 with endstops and probe, without that code snipppet. endstop is set a hair higher than nozzle.

it has happened that for some reason, if the probe does not trigger, the machine WILL crash the head into the bed.

i defined x-min endstop normally and defined the probe on anther pin and defined that via the config file.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 10, 2019 09:08PM
so you are using the mech endstop as backup. So that makes sense. For some reason it sounded like you were saying the mech endstop was triggering first. I have crashed mine but it was just until I got things right. It is very reliable now. At times it does trigger early - if I touch it at all.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 12, 2019 05:36PM
Goodnight,

I have manufactured a Voron 2.1 and is fixed bed 350x350x10 mm thick and has no springs. I want to assemble a Piezo system, but I do not know what I could assemble and how, since the temperature of the bed can reach up to something over 100 cº. I would like to know if you have mounted it, what and how.

Thank you very much for the help.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 13, 2019 01:34AM
I just hooked up my piezo board. Blue light stays on at all times, red light never comes on. No matter what the VR2 is turned to blue light stays on. Bump the hot end, the blue will flicker. Piezo disc reads 0v when not triggered and does climb as it is pushed on. I disconnect the piezo disc and the blue light goes out, but still no red light. It is hooked up per the instructions. This is board #2. It is the v. 2.75 pcb. I must be doing something wrong..

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2019 01:43AM by veaceonee.
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
April 13, 2019 07:45PM
the piezo disc itself produces pulses when it moves. No movement = no pulses. The board produces an output that is an elongated version of the input, but is still a pulse. The blue flickering is indicating the piezo is working and there is an output pulse. My board does not have a red LED so I can't tell you about that and none of the instructions say anything about an adjustment for it.
I think it is impossible to observe the blue LED lighting when you pushed it up and not when you let go as the piezo is VERY sensitive and you can't hold it still enough.

The challenge now is to get it adjusted properly.
Too sensitive and it will respond to anything; not sensitive enough it could crash the head.

I had to increase the speed of the 2nd approach to get mine to trigger reliably.
I also had to add a delay in the start of the Z home, but I have taken it out with new releases of Marlin. Seems like they are accounting for XY homing movement now.

Test the system response far away from home with a tap of your finger while it is trying to home Z.
That way you have plenty of time to terminate it. If it does not seem to work make sure the F/W is looking for the right polarity (active low or active high).
If you look at the output with a DVM on a low scale you may see the pulse give you an indication, but it is only about 250ms.
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