Best 3d printer to make from scratch

Hi one and all,
It's my first thread on the forum. Pardon me for any mistakes, I would be glad if someone would point them out.
The purpose of the thread is to find out the best 3d printer to be made at home , with the following specifications:
1) highest quality of prints.
2)lessfailures.
3) which implies, sturdy construction......specifically according to the digital dentist's parameters.(including but not limited to aluminum extrusions,metal plates,concrete)(I had just given in to the hype of CR10 printer but I realized that it would have been a wrong step )
4) (if possible only then) can be made with basic tools.
5)generally should use off the shelf equipment(or easily available equipment) so as to make sure that working of the machine is not hampered for long.
6) keeping the cost low should not be the primary concern...we should cut costs not corners.
7)radical ideas are welcomed.
8)speed and other fancy stuff is not the basic requirements...it should be precise, accurate and free from countinuous tweaking...as the DDentist says that if the tolerances are tight, the dimensions won't change while the machine is working.
9)an enclosed chamber is reccomended.
10)the files of the so conceived printer will be open for use by others.....if the Chinese can do it...so can an American...the biggest boon is...u don't have to always go to a maker...if
u like it...u make it...that's diy..isn't it.
11) this thread can also be used to grade other printers under the given parameters, so that other people who don't have enough time to build one printer ,can make ther mind about buying one, based on their parameters.....this will be different from the commercial guides on the net as it will have genuine comments by the users...perfect assessment by experts...all in one place....(sorry if I may sound too much optimistic)

And others parameters ..As deemed necessary ...

Now why am I expecting the community to help...to be frank..I am not an engineer...in fact I have no relation with it as I am in the field of international relations...so pardon me....but the day I saw a Prussia i3 printing...I could not sleep...I did my utmost to do it myself but every time I found my self at an disadvantage, which I am sure you would be generous enough to fill.

The passion led me to conceive my own working designs...I my self thought about the polar printer(I am not taking credits..it's mere anecdote)...but later saw that it already exists with its flaws...so I thought even more on it....I zeroed on a semi circular shape with the gantry hinged at the center and using all lead screws and no belts...it would have also rid us thermometer the problem of making one steeper driving another, and the frustration with the belts.... .I also conceived a process to push the bed up on the zed axis ... through a single stepper..(assume the tower bridge of London...when it opens its two halves split open..just put your bed on the top and there I see ur bed on z axis...I intended to use a trick of one nut and two bolts...the two nuts go in opposite direction when the bolt turns in one direction.....this would have helped the two arms to open identically.....compared to a normal printer it would definitely had a larger build volume.....but when I took the matters to my friend who is an engineer....he said that the plan is great but he will not be there's to help me out as he got transferred to a remote place(oil corporation engineer)

So I decided ...why not ask the community itself...it's not necessary that's we need to go with the abve type...a good conventional design would do.
I went through the DDentist's posts .. one thing always resonated to me....make the frame sturdy...use good rails and motors.....I checked out various designs on the net...voron...vulcunus max...hyper cube...etc...but they were all not up to the mark....

Going about SoMMax instructable....I found out that a lot of parts are industry scraps...which are not available to most of us...especially me ...it's a quaint area where I live....however notwithstanding the industry grade parts... the design could be accommodated to fit the needs through off the shelf items...that's the place whirred have a severe disadvantage... am not a engineer...thus I will not be the best person to do the accommodation in the design...however it does not mean that I won't do anything...as a matter of fact I want to build the machine.....

What's your opinion....shall we begin?

HYPERCUBE a little short on the Z axis, but I found it a belting intro to coreXY design.

[openbuilds.org]

Thanks for the input jinx... I have already gone through the hypercube documentation....it can be a great option if we can improve the frame by adding gussets.....refer to the article on aluminum extrusions on hackaday....however it would be even better if we can use least amount of 3d printed parts in it....Plus I plan to use profile linear guides...any suggestions on that?

As far as I have read...a milled metal plate for xy movement seems to be the best option...but I wish to know more about possible alternatives to metal milling...

Cwaa...thanks for ur input too...the machine seems to have a great potential for being a beginners printer....it would be better If we modify it to use proper lead screws ...ie supported on the both ends...also support to the z axis frame will be an added advantage...I also think it would be better to use proper linear rails than the v slots for better results...what do you suggest?


As far as I have read...the most accepted standard is a core xy with bed z axis. This also helps in enclosing the build chamber to make it fit for printing abs...i read through the thread of Ultra Megan max dominator....it would be cool to have a standardized version of that model for popular use.any ideas on that?

Quote
sudarshan
Thanks for the input jinx... I have already gone through the hypercube documentation....it can be a great option if we can improve the frame by adding gussets.....refer to the article on aluminum extrusions on hackaday....however it would be even better if we can use least amount of 3d printed parts in it....Plus I plan to use profile linear guides...any suggestions on that?

As far as I have read...a milled metal plate for xy movement seems to be the best option...but I wish to know more about possible alternatives to metal milling...

Cwaa...thanks for ur input too...the machine seems to have a great potential for being a beginners printer....it would be better If we modify it to use proper lead screws ...ie supported on the both ends...also support to the z axis frame will be an added advantage...I also think it would be better to use proper linear rails than the v slots for better results...what do you suggest?


As far as I have read...the most accepted standard is a core xy with bed z axis. This also helps in enclosing the build chamber to make it fit for printing abs...i read through the thread of Ultra Megan max dominator....it would be cool to have a standardized version of that model for popular use.any ideas on that?

I use 2mm titanium plate (Grade 5). Nice thing about titanium is that is nonmagnetic, has low thermal expansion (and coefficient), is 3x yield strength of aluminum but is less dense than steel. Just be sure to get Grade 5 alloy not pure titanium Grade 2.

I have been doing some research lately and have come across the cheapest way to get a T-slot aluminum frame without compromising quality, just costing time.

The Extrusions:
The extrusions themselves can be purchased from 80/20 through eBay in lots, these lots are parts that they cannot sell for one reason or another and so they sell them in lots by auction. It can easily be 50% cheaper than brand new extrusion of the regular site. Here is a link:
[stores.ebay.com]
The parts are sold in lots and are typically between 12" and 60". I recently bought a lot of stuff around 48" for my next build.

The Fasteners for the Extrusion:
T Nutz is having a large sale and most of the items are more than 50% of the price of 80/20 stuff, it is all OEM
[www.tnutz.com]

General Fasteners:
Purchasing fasteners from the local hardware store can be expensive, I recommend Fastenal, they sell screws and bolts in bulk packages from 25 to 100 for most standard sizes and will ship to the store for free I believe.
[www.fastenal.com]

I am not associated with any of the companies listed.

I hope that this will help you in being able to get the frame parts for your printer in your local area. Also, what is your budget for your 3D printer?

Folgertech FT-5

[folgertech.com]

You will spend more than $500 on parts

Then Mod the FT-5 to suit

Quote
Trexation
I have been doing some research lately and have come across the cheapest way to get a T-slot aluminum frame without compromising quality, just costing time.

The Extrusions:
The extrusions themselves can be purchased from 80/20 through eBay in lots, these lots are parts that they cannot sell for one reason or another and so they sell them in lots by auction. It can easily be 50% cheaper than brand new extrusion of the regular site. Here is a link:
[stores.ebay.com]
The parts are sold in lots and are typically between 12" and 60". I recently bought a lot of stuff around 48" for my next build.

The Fasteners for the Extrusion:
T Nutz is having a large sale and most of the items are more than 50% of the price of 80/20 stuff, it is all OEM
[www.tnutz.com]

General Fasteners:
Purchasing fasteners from the local hardware store can be expensive, I recommend Fastenal, they sell screws and bolts in bulk packages from 25 to 100 for most standard sizes and will ship to the store for free I believe.
[www.fastenal.com]

I am not associated with any of the companies listed.

I hope that this will help you in being able to get the frame parts for your printer in your local area. Also, what is your budget for your 3D printer?

Speaking of fasteners - link was posted here and I found the place to be cheaper (sometimes 5-10x cheaper) than places like fastenal or tnutz:

[forums.reprap.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2017 09:19AM by newbob.

Trexation...newbob thanks for ur inputs....I am looking into the gigabot by re3d....any ideas on that?

P.s : correction of the exact name of the printer and company.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2017 09:40AM by sudarshan.

Other than the high price tag, I am interested as to why the company chose to put a .4 mm nozzle on a machine with a build area of 600mm x 600mm, and what you plan to do with such a large build volume.

Link: [re3d.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2017 10:00AM by Trexation.

I do not intend to go for the high price tag...but I wish to find out what are the features,which improve the performance...for incorporating them in our design and making the available to all.

Did anyone notice that they don't use linear guides for that high price tag?

Yeah, and it looks like they have the cheapest extruders off of eBay for the direct drive system.
Link: [www.ebay.com]

There are a lot of bad designs and price is not an indication of item's quality, precision or speed.

I started 3d printing recently and I figure it's probably four things that matter - backlash (belt or screw drive, material and frame stiffness), positional accuracy (stepper torque and gearing), inertia (heavy parts require higher stiffness at higher speeds for same accuracy) and extruder's performance (this one I still have not figured out). Enclosure may also play important role when printing large.

I would suggest to look at successful designs like stratasys. It's also interesting how many PRUSA i3 variants there are and how each is trying to address some of shortcomings.

Here's a video of stratasys rebuild:

[youtu.be]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2017 10:32AM by newbob.

Have you considered a delta printer? The cheap kits are best avoided, but there are some more expensive kits that are well-regarded, for example the Ultibots DV300 (which is open source). Or you could build a similar one from scratch using the design in my blog at [miscsolutions.wordpress.com].

Compared to other designs, delta printers are fast, they have a smaller footprint for a given build area, and they are mechanically simple. Their main disadvantages are that extending them to do multi-extrusion is not easy, and the circular build plate doesn't suit some people depending on what you want to print. The cheap kits also suffer from poor dimensional accuracy and difficult calibration.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Newbob....you are right....the Veblen effect is not worth giving into.....I want to find out the techniques which yield better prints.
like..sturdy frame...good print bed....playless guides...zero backlash screws and nuts or belts..etc...I want to know which companies takled these problems....and how did they do it...and how can we do it...which are the better sources of getting good quality parts at lower prices...what are the substitutes of some costlier industry grade items such as milled stepper brace etc.


dc42...I did a lot of study into the deltas....but they have some inherent problems...with the volume first...trickey alignment, which gives in at the first sight of wear etc...it's although good as a work horse where quality is not that much needed but the quantity of output..plus 3d printed parts at crucial joints is one thing that I wish to avoid...I would be eager to know if you prove me wrong...

Quote
sudarshan
Newbob....you are right....the Veblen effect is not worth giving into.....I want to find out the techniques which yield better prints.
like..sturdy frame...good print bed....playless guides...zero backlash screws and nuts or belts..etc...I want to know which companies takled these problems....and how did they do it...and how can we do it...which are the better sources of getting good quality parts at lower prices...what are the substitutes of some costlier industry grade items such as milled stepper brace etc.


dc42...I did a lot of study into the deltas....but they have some inherent problems...with the volume first...trickey alignment, which gives in at the first sight of wear etc...it's although good as a work horse where quality is not that much needed but the quantity of output..plus 3d printed parts at crucial joints is one thing that I wish to avoid...I would be eager to know if you prove me wrong...

I would not dismiss delta design too quickly. As far as I am aware only delta and light weight corexy printers can print at over 100mm/s with decent quality.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2017 01:14PM by newbob.

Quote
sudarshan
dc42...I did a lot of study into the deltas....but they have some inherent problems...with the volume first...trickey alignment, which gives in at the first sight of wear etc...it's although good as a work horse where quality is not that much needed but the quantity of output..plus 3d printed parts at crucial joints is one thing that I wish to avoid...I would be eager to know if you prove me wrong...

Alignment is not tricky if the build is accurate by design, you have a good Z probe, and the firmware has good auto calibration built-in. I agree with you about not using printed parts for any critical joints - and my delta doesn't.

However, the cheap delta printer kits do suffer from those problems. So I suggest that anyone on a tight budget should choose an i3 or other Cartesian design instead.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2017 03:56PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Budget is not that big a problem.....I want to incorporate the ideas of costlier printers into ours.... not in parts cost but by reduction in labor cost, marketing cost, profits etc.
Plus, I am ready to sacrifice speed to get accurate and precise prints...however that's where the delta seems to loose steam...one of the delta owner I know complained frequently about the bearing on the printhead...he said that the wear in the bearing is almost instantly visible on the prints....not forget that he was using a kossel....


[m.youtube.com]
Here I see a link of videos where the different printers are compared....I am yet to understand what makes the performance of certain printers of same configuration better than others(is it the extruder, or the frame , or the firmware(my weakest point) or anything else) ...eg. The cr10 and the tarantula...etc. (also there is a comparision for the deltas too.)


However I will still consider the delta unless a corexy design comes up which can yield a better result....

In my opinion, frame rigidity and vibration damping are the most important aspects of a printer. Next is the quality of the controller and finally the hot end. If these three issues are not met you can spend a fortune and get crap.

You are right...no questions on them

I was wondering if it's of any help...my neighbor has a small table for cutting lumber...it's a small all metal table...I had the opportunity to check it last Saturday...it was a cuboid ,welded and was made out of steel beams with shelf bracing at the bottom and two support beams at the top....thus it had zero wobble and was sturdy..can you tell me why or why not it will be ideal for making a printer with it?

Also is there any way to incorporate this idea of conveyer belt type bed

[www.kickstarter.com]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2017 11:47AM by sudarshan.

CWAA.....I met with the local 3d printer owner she in my town....no so many but all of them had corexy....I guess I will have to go with the corexy model for the time being as I will be dependent on their expertise and supply of raw material for day to day help I need my construction....or I have not realized the full potential of the reprap community....but if you can provide a counter solution to my problems....if you can share and discuss the build of your printer and help to upgrade it to provide constant goog quality prints with minimal adjustments necessary(like the son of mega max) then I am ready to build a delta(with all your due permission).


Meanwhile I have researched about the frame part of the machine....most of the machines are based on the rigidity and the alignment of the frame itself...so milled end aluminum extrusion seems to be the best option available to us...second....I have a local supplier for round linear bearings and rails which is cheaper for me than importing...so is it helpful for me to use a bigger diameter bearing...say 16mm or 20mm for different parts to avoid flexing or sag ... I guess the sag in the aluminum extrusion will be seen in the profile guide but that will be minimum if I am using thicker round rails for a smaller machine(say 35x35x40).....am I correct? ..... if not, then what are our options and thus a good source to avail them?

Second,For the z axis bed movement...I have found out that it's best done with timing belts where only one motor is pulling the bed....what is the best way to make that configuration? Any hints on that?
Also any comments or reviews on the one I suggested in my first post?

[hackaday.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2017 03:24PM by sudarshan.

[forums.reprap.org]

This is the stacked belt corexy arrangement that I intend to put in the machine....can anyone help me out in the construction??

Quote
newbob


I would not dismiss delta design too quickly. As far as I am aware only delta and light weight corexy printers can print at over 100mm/s with decent quality.

Not a Delta but mine(own design) can print also with that speed and even faster and with a very high perimeter quality.
The printer in the image is a prototype and works perfect. Busy making a larger version this very moment (heatbed 200x300mm), almost done.

You are using rods and plastic corners. Not the best technology.

Quote
chriske

Quote
newbob


I would not dismiss delta design too quickly. As far as I am aware only delta and light weight corexy printers can print at over 100mm/s with decent quality.

Not a Delta but mine(own design) can print also with that speed and even faster and with a very high perimeter quality.
The printer in the image is a prototype and works perfect. Busy making a larger version this very moment (heatbed 200x300mm), almost done.

For a brief moment, after I wrote that delta and corexy 'rule' , I considered Ultimaker design but overall I think it's performance sits in between speed and precision, and probably 100mm/s is too fast for good precision (especially for larger printers). Please post your results when you get your printer up - I'm curious how it works out.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2017 08:40AM by newbob.

Quote
cwaa
You are using rods and plastic corners. Not the best technology.

Yep works perfect, I printed these parts in PETG. Very sturdy material...!

Quote
newbob

Quote
chriske

Quote
newbob


I would not dismiss delta design too quickly. As far as I am aware only delta and light weight corexy printers can print at over 100mm/s with decent quality.

Not a Delta but mine(own design) can print also with that speed and even faster and with a very high perimeter quality.
The printer in the image is a prototype and works perfect. Busy making a larger version this very moment (heatbed 200x300mm), almost done.

For a brief moment, after I wrote that delta and corexy 'rule' , I considered Ultimaker design but overall I think it's performance sits in between speed and precision, and probably 100mm/s is too fast for good precision (especially for larger printers). Please post your results when you get your printer up - I'm curious how it works out.

That printer(I named it Ulti-Printer(The name Ultimaker was already taken... ) is already in service for a few months now. It outperforms all (about 20)printers by far we've built in the past. The perimeters are superb, no ripple at all, no ghosting around holes.
I expect the larger version I'm building right now will do the same.

No Printed parts are a precondition in our machine....for two reasons....first...there are not printers who can do the job adequately, thus we need standard parts to accomplish the same and expand the community....second printing is inherently limited in accuracy in FDM so for proper performance it's essential that we rely on standard equipment

I don't often comment on these threads, but my 2c, on Cartesian designs, I've built hbot, core xy, ultimaker and more conventional gantries, and I'd pick the ultimaker design for a new build.
Both Hbot and Core XY designs require a high degree of rigidity in the frame and high quality bearings to perform well IME, conversely it's hard to build a working ultimaker gantry that doesn't have close to perfect XY alignment, pretty much everything in the design forces it. I also prefer the shorter belt runs, IME in designs with long belts, you get an effect where there is a measurable difference in the way the belt responds close to the driving force of the motor and further away from it.
The ultimaker and zortrax have reputations for high quality prints for a reason.
The raise N2 version of the design mounts the extruder on the gantry and they seem to get away with it, so it doesn't require a Bowden style extruder.
I'd seriously consider a eustathios or similar design, if the plastic parts are off putting, most of them could be machined or easily modified to be.

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My blog [3dprinterhell.blogspot.com]