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Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?

Posted by SupraGuy 
Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 22, 2018 03:03PM
Normally this wouldn't even be a question, but I have 2 printers. one currently working, but without a heat bed controller. One is "in development" which has been stalled for a while, while "real life" gets in the way.

The working printer is running an MKS Gen L 1.0. The firmware supplied with the kit (No source Configuration.h file) is running Marlin 1.0, and has some bugs, like sometimes it will wait indefinitely in "heating" until I use the control panel to change the hotend temperature setting. It's liveable, since I never leave it unattended to print, but more annoyingly is that it has no (firmware) provision for a heated bed. I have installed a heated bed, which I am currently controlling with another Arduino/RAMPS1.4 controller, though of course this is not controlled at all via firmware. The resultant printer is useable, but of course I have to turn on/off the heated bed separately.

The printer "in development" is my I3 rebuild, which I want to run on leadscrews. This is ultimately where I want to use the Duet, given that the Duet is supposed to allow faster motion from the leadscrews, making up for the higher steps/mm than the belts were getting. Of course I'm not sure that I need 16X microstepping either. I'm sure that 2X microstepping is perfectly adequate, but hey, I'll take smoother if I can get it, particularly if it comes with quieter.

So my conundrum is this: Do I install the Duet in the printer that's currently working, making it hopefully better, or do I use it to get the other printer up and running hopefully faster?

There are a few other issues with the other printer. I want to get it changed up a little, and I want to re-print some of the plastic parts. I also want to modify how it works to make use of the piezo probe kit that I bought some time ago for automatic bed leveling. (The currently working printer has some funky provisions for 3 point leveling which I'd frankly love to be rid of.

But wait, there's more.

Since the Gen-L SHOULD be able to control a heated bed, I wanted to reverse engineer the firmware, so that I could update it. To that end, I also bought a MKS Gen motherboard. (The Gen-L was cheaper, and could have been a direct swap, but was out of stock) This will be a little different, but I should be able to replicate the function of the existing board without losing the working firmware configuration, or use it for the leadscrew driven printer. It's not that much of a step up from the 2560/RAMPS combination, but at least I can run it off of a 24V supply.

I'm kind of tempted to run the existing printer off of the duet, though I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that annoying probe setup that it's got, since it's not easy to modify ANYTHING on that hotend, in any case, I want to finish the leadscrew printer, and have it be as good as it is possible for it to be, including having the piezo driven hotend probing for bed leveling. I believe that the leadscrew configuration will ultimately allow me the best outcome for printed parts, and I'd like to give it the best chance that I can to be useful. Too slow print and non-print motion would definitely eat into the usability of the printer, which is currently my biggest fear.


MBot3D Printer
MakerBot clone Kit from Amazon
Added heated bed.

Leadscrew self-built printer (in progress)
Duet Wifi, Precision Piezo parts
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 22, 2018 03:18PM
If I was a marketeer, I'd say put the Duet in the existing printer, then you will never want to go back and you will buy another Duet for the new one!

But I'm an engineer. So if your existing printer is working well enough to print any parts you need for the new one, I suggest you leave it alone, and concentrate instead on getting the new printer finished.

Having two 3D printers is useful, because if a printed part on one printer breaks then you can print a new part for it on the other one.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 22, 2018 05:24PM
Ha ha ha.

This is more or less what I'm thinking.

It's also more than possible that I'll buy another duet anyway if it really is that far superior once up and running.

The engineer in me wants to get the second printer up and running. I've pretty much determined that I'm looking at redesigning it around the piezo sensors. I'm kind of regretting my choice of kits. I got the version with 3 undrilled sensors, as I thought that would be more flexible, but the more I see, the more I think that I should have gone with the drilled sensor disc after all, since the hot end is the least complete piece of my overall design. It does seem like I might be going back to the drawing board anyway though, since I have some new ideas about what I do and no not want.

When I first got my I3 kit, the first things printed on it were a more or less complete roster of printed parts, and then the next thing were a set of upgraded printed parts to cover for problems that I had identified in the printing of the first set. unfortunately, the printer was barely good enough to make parts for itself, and at that, I could only make them work because I have enough woodworking and machining skills and tools to modify the printed output. I was never able to make the printer particularly accurate, as parts that would be more difficult to replace were of inferior quality, and very much limiting as to what I was going to be able to do with the printer.

The current printer was a much higher quality kit, though I'm not sure that 5mm plywood is ultimately going to be a long-term durable material. As such, I'm working towards something that will be more durable, rigid and therefore accurate.


MBot3D Printer
MakerBot clone Kit from Amazon
Added heated bed.

Leadscrew self-built printer (in progress)
Duet Wifi, Precision Piezo parts
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 25, 2018 01:21PM
Send the Duet back!
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 25, 2018 01:50PM
Quote
cwaa
Send the Duet back!

...that would be absurdly wasteful. Send it to me instead ^ ^
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 25, 2018 01:56PM
Where do you live I will sell you mine. I am waiting for an RMA.
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 25, 2018 09:01PM
Whats wrong with yours?
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 26, 2018 09:11AM
The GEN-L is a solid ramps/mega all-in-one. I'm using mine with a raspberry pi and Klipper firmware. That doesn't necessarily address your problems, but if you have a raspberry pi available, I'd suggest you consider switching firmwares to improve your overall experience until you are ready to start running your DUET on the prusa mod. Added benefit of Klipper is greatly improved steprates with the Ramps/Mega based controllers. The firmware is less complicated than marlin and doesn't require a reflash every time you need to modify your configuration files as they are hosted on your Raspberry Pi. There are other areas where it is technically better than Marlin although real-world differences in print results may not be that noticeable, I've never done a side by side quality test.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2018 09:16AM by obelisk79.
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 26, 2018 09:42AM
@obelisk79

so your suggestion to someone who is already struggling is a highly experimental firmware that practically no one is running and has little to no support?

god help us if you ever work for a suicide hot line... "lemming Sunday" all over again (reddwarf quote)

For those to young to know or to old to remember [www.quotes.net]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2018 09:45AM by Dust.
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 26, 2018 10:54AM
@cwaa: Yeah, I've read about your issues with networking. I doubt that I'll have a similar problem, but I'll keep that in mind. Whichever printer I use the duet in, I'm pretty much committed to making it work.

@obelisk79: I have several Raspberry Pis of various generations around the house, and a couple of spares, but I'm not likely to be using them for 3D printing, as I also have several PCs around. I actually quite like Marlin, just I don't want to blow away the mostly working firmware on the board currently in my printer until I can reverse engineer the configuration file, since I don't have and can't get source code. I'm almost certain to be using Marlin on that GEN board, working with the RepRap discount controller/SD card reader.

The issues that I'm having with the firmware on the GEN-L board are:
- Sometimes gets hung up on "heating..." for the hot end until I intervene manually. I believe that this is a bug in the version of the firmware.
- Inability to control heated bed, since it was not compiled into the firmware
- Overtemp alerts a little too low, making ABS extrusion difficult. Limit set too low in firmware.

It shouldn't be too difficult to get the rest of the settings, but being a naturally cautious person, I don't like to mess with things that I can't easily undo.

At this point, I've almost built up enough spare parts to build a third printer anyway, so who knows. I also intend to build a CNC router, and I might start with something smaller, dremel sized using 3D printer parts, though I fully intend to have something that I can make furniture-sides pieces on at some point.

I just went over my leadscrew printer design, and since I've learned a few things since I did that, I kind of want to redesign it, which will mean that it'll be somewhat longer before it's ready. I also don't want this to be the perpetual project that never actually gets done.


MBot3D Printer
MakerBot clone Kit from Amazon
Added heated bed.

Leadscrew self-built printer (in progress)
Duet Wifi, Precision Piezo parts
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 26, 2018 11:56AM
Not a thing, it was delivered on June 11. I have spent 5 days trying to connect it to the network and configure it. Duets instructions are to build the config file using RepRap Configutor. Of course that tool doesn't work either. Fill it out and noting happens. Support sucks as well.
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 26, 2018 12:08PM
Quote
Dust
@obelisk79

so your suggestion to someone who is already struggling is a highly experimental firmware that practically no one is running and has little to no support?

Correct, not many people use it, but it's fairly well supported in it's own development thread, actively being developed, incredibly well documented and was easier to set up and adjust than marlin or repetier which requires a new flash to the MEGA 2560 each time you need to make an adjustment whereas Klipper does not require a relash to operate with new settings. When was the last time you tried that firmware out? I've tried every firmware that will run on my hardware (including ones found only on GitHub). I don't just toss out that suggestion on a whim.

Based on my personal experiences, Klipper just works better. Isn't that part of being in this community? sharing experiences?

@SupraGuy if you're having to manually calculate all of the configuration settings for Marlin you're already doing the same work needed to configure a different firmware. Marlin is a staple in the 3d printing world for sure, I was merely giving you a suggestion Klipper is less widely accepted around here but it's just as good if not better than Marlin. Either way you go, I wish you the best of luck sorting out your issues.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2018 12:23PM by obelisk79.
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 26, 2018 10:07PM
@cwaa: Hmmm. I followed the instructions here ( [duet3d.dozuki.com] ) and had mine on the wifi in 8 minutes. (Would have been 6, but I tried to connect it to my 5GHz network first.)

Anyway, this part didn't seem to present a problem.

@obelisk79: And yeah, but I'm familiar with Marlin's menu on the discount controller, so it's one less unknown to deal with when changing software. Some stuff like steps/mm is a done deal. One of the biggest headaches I see is bed leveling, which wasn't even a thing when I did my I3 the first time. Of course if I'm going to do the piezo sensors, I've got to redevelop that anyway, but I figure that I'll start with one change at a time. First step is to get source code that I can back up that works the way that the original did, then once I have a stable fall-back, I can start changing things. I don't mind re-flashing the firmware to change hardware configurations.

Anyway, I think I'm going to connect up some stuff to this duet to test some stuff.
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 26, 2018 11:48PM
Okay, for testing purposes, I went through and built a config file using the online tool. Uploaded the config.zip file, and have been messing around with my leadscrew based build.

X/Y motion seems good with the leadscrews. Took me a bit to find the steps/mm configuration, so it moved SLOW. Set it to 400steps/mm (16X microstepping, 8mm pitch leadscrew, 1.8 degree motor.)

Doesn't want to home in X direction, as that's set up as a limit switch. (It reads the switch, but I think it's looking for something else. LED next to Z motor output lights up, screws keep turning.

Not sure that the homing is working the way that I want, but I'll sort it out. It should go to X=220, Y=270. It's probably okay though if I treat the upper right as 0,0. That only means that the prints get turned 18-0 degrees from what I'd otherwise expect. so long as the motor directions are what I want. Hmmm. Nope. I'll have to look at this some more, it seems to think that it's homing at X=0, Y=270. I'll get mirror imaged prints if I let it stay this way. Well, no big deal yet. There's no extruder on the printer yet.
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 27, 2018 03:03AM
Remember that the firmware expects a right hand coordinate system....
Re: Just bought a Duet Wifi... What to do with it?
June 27, 2018 05:21PM
ugh. Yeah, my head is all turned around on this, because I've been looking at the printer at a weird angle while getting it set up, but it will result in mirror image prints if I don't change it. No matter at the moment though. I've verified that it works, and I'm going to be tearing the whole printer apart and going at it with new redesigned parts. I've identified some things that I really want to be different with the design. It is starting to resemble its original I3 configuration less and less all the time.


MBot3D Printer
MakerBot clone Kit from Amazon
Added heated bed.

Leadscrew self-built printer (in progress)
Duet Wifi, Precision Piezo parts
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