Suggestions to get started on the right track?

Hello,

So glad to find RepRap and this community! I had all but decided to purchase a MakerBot kit when I came across the RepRap. It is so much more appealing to me for so many reasons. So now that I have decided to build a Prusa, I though I would check with the experts on the forum to get some advice about starting the design phase in the right direction.

I have spent all weekend in front of my computer researching the various aspects of the Prusa, and I have to say I'm still pretty confused. Mostly about the multiple electronic configurations possible and a little about the extruder and hot end.

For electronics, it seems that the most simple, concise way to go is with a RAMPS system. This single package design appeals to me, but I can't seem to find anywhere to purchase a complete kit as everyone is out of stock, any suggestions?

My confusion about the extruder and hot end is mostly that I don't understand all the options. I see a lot of people use Wade's extruder, is this considered the standard? And what are the most popular hot end systems?

Please forgive my ignorance, I would just like some start-up advice so I don't waste my time researching areas that have already been deemed less desirable by the experienced. I am ready to get started as soon as I understand all the components, but I could use a little help to make the process go quickly. Mostly I would just like to know where I should focus my research efforts and what I should not waste time with, maybe you know of some good threads to read that clarify common confusions. My intent is to build a high quality machine as quickly as possible. I should mention that I have a metal lathe and milling machine, so I have been considering making the printable parts and other stuff from aluminum. But this may not be time/cost effective. Opinions?

Thank you in advance for any advice. I will try to keep the forum-searchable noob questions to a minimum, I can already tell that these forums are going to be a life saver.

Trebhill

Here is a link to an article about sourcing a 3d printer.

And this flavor of electronics(sanguinolo) is available at emakershop.com.

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__________________________________________________________________________
"I like to be, what I like to see, in you and me.
I am the Stallion, Mang."

ISTAR Scope Club

Wow, a rare Ween reference. I feel right at home. Thanks for the info, that sourcing article looks interesting...will read now.

I'm in the exact same boat as you, but I think a couple of weeks ahead! I am so glad I found RepRap before dropping a bomb on markerbot. They have a lot more press and looks like a more refined system but in reality I think RepRap has more scope and to me, very importantly, a much bigger stage - oh and a much better community!
Where are you from?

Read the wiki - the wiki is so good - some bits are a bit dated but any gaps will be answered here. (apparently IRC is the best place to be though).
reprap.org/wiki/Mendel_Buyers_Guide <-- very useful buying information. It's very dependent on where you are though

RAMPS is a good system - hard to find right now, depending on where you are and if you build it yourself or not. I think the benefits are its simplicity, but performance wise gen 6 is the same (I believe).
Wade's extruder does seem to be the current norm but people are releasing and improving designs all the time - its hard to keep track. The good news is you can normally just print out the latest and greatest thing.

Hope that helps

I'm in Phoenix, you? I'm a Mechanical Engineering student at ASU. The wiki is pretty informative, it's just kind of all over the place. I have been able to answer a lot of questions though. I am considering going with the Gen 6 electronics since it available and I want to get started as quickly as possible. I guess I'll stick with Wade's for now, it seems adequate and comes with every set of plastics I've seen.

How far along are you? Have you purchased all your parts? What electronics are you going with?

I think I'm going to order plastic parts today, I'm going to need those no matter what.

Thanks for the reply!

If you want RAMPS, I have them available, fully assembled, flashed and tested. No kits. Just send me a PM.

Sent.

Yeah I've gone with RAMPS, you look like you might overtake me! I'm in HK so its a tiny bit more difficult. But I am ordering everything this week.
I am only semi-sourcing by buying a couple of kits - like RAMPS fully assembled (my solder skills are shocking). It's cheaper the more skilled and technically gifted you are, for me I'm paying quite an excess
I have read the wiki a lot so assembly should hopefully be a piece of cake - in theory.

The thing about the wiki is it is completely impartial - which is good - but at the time I just wanted someone to tell me what was the best - but thats a very open ended question. I've decided that the best is: RAMPS + Prusa + Wade's - purely based on how popular they appear to be. Also youtube confirms
In terms of hot end I have chosen Arcol's (arcol.hu) but this wasn't based on the most amount of research.
Hope your build goes well - It should be fairly easy and cheap to source things over in the states

I'm going to try to "kit" as much as I can as well. I want to get started as quickly as possible so I'm doing what best suits that goal. I have a feeling that it's going to take longer than I would like to get going on this though, I have been reading non-stop and haven't spent a dime, so many decisions. I will probably spend more than is necessary on this first one, but once I have some experience I may try to build another one less expensively. I'm sort of the guinea pig for this project, several of my friends will probably have offspring from this machine and will benefit from my stumbling around with this one.

The Arcol hot end looks pretty nice, but another thing that's hard to find. It seems like everyone is out of stock on all the major stuff. This may drive me to buy a full kit (which are mostly out of stock too), but I would like to source it myself. I guess that's why it's the "planning stage".

Good luck.

A full kit for your first one might be a good idea. When you really know things then the second one can be bigger, better and cheaper.
Really be careful about where you get the kit from. I think places like makergear have highly regarded kits but places like botmill (and possibly techzone) are to be avoided.
I'm sure you'll do your homework though.
All the best

Another idea is the WhiteAnt.
It's from a book coming out at the end of this month called "Printing in Plastic"
from these people, scroll alittle to see article.
And here is there YouTube channel to build
videos.

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__________________________________________________________________________
"I like to be, what I like to see, in you and me.
I am the Stallion, Mang."

ISTAR Scope Club

Isnt makerbot based off of reprap?

yydoctt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm in the exact same boat as you, but I think a
> couple of weeks ahead! I am so glad I found RepRap
> before dropping a bomb on markerbot. They have a
> lot more press and looks like a more refined
> system but in reality I think RepRap has more
> scope and to me, very importantly, a much bigger
> stage - oh and a much better community!
> Where are you from?
>
> Read the wiki - the wiki is so good - some bits
> are a bit dated but any gaps will be answered
> here. (apparently IRC is the best place to be
> though).
> reprap.org/wiki/Mendel_Buyers_Guide <-- very
> useful buying information. It's very dependent on
> where you are though
>
> RAMPS is a good system - hard to find right now,
> depending on where you are and if you build it
> yourself or not. I think the benefits are its
> simplicity, but performance wise gen 6 is the same
> (I believe).
> Wade's extruder does seem to be the current norm
> but people are releasing and improving designs all
> the time - its hard to keep track. The good news
> is you can normally just print out the latest and
> greatest thing.
>
> Hope that helps

Whiteant looks very much like the UP! 3D printer: [www.desktopfab.com]

BoriSpider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another idea is the WhiteAnt.
> It's from a book coming out at the end of this
> month called "Printing in Plastic"
> from these people, scroll alittle to see article.
> And here is there YouTube channel to build
> videos.

It does somewhat. But I don't think it prints the same way with the Y axis so far up then droping down.

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__________________________________________________________________________
"I like to be, what I like to see, in you and me.
I am the Stallion, Mang."

ISTAR Scope Club

I have been looking at the MakerGear kit and corresponding with them as well, I will likely go with them if I go that route. It's just hard to pull the trigger on the purchase. When you buy little bits here and there, it doesn't seem as painful . Also, their kits have a 2-3 week lead time, which is kind of a bummer. I'm so anxious to start building!

owism8 - yes makerbot is based off RepRap and like RepRap they are open source - which is great. It just comes down to preference - build size and cost at the end of the day. They're also a company - where RepRap is not. One of their goals is to make money which is fair enough - but it makes the machine less value for money if you buy from them as opposed to buying a RepRap from the community.

Has nobody tried to reverse engineer an up! the parts they use are just as accessible to us as to them - I would have thought. But to be fair if I bought an up! I daren't open it up incase I break it!

trebhill - Makergear is probably the best choice in quality and they also have fantastic addons. Mine totalled $1000 when I priced it up on their site. The several kits I'm getting are coming to $750/$800.. which is quite good.
I think the best is under $500 for completely self sourcing. Shop around but I think Makergear will give you a no quabbles - working and good quality Prusa. I've only seen a few posts about Makergear but they have all been very positive.

On another note, I will need to buy filament with my kit but I have no concept of how much the Prusa uses. For instance, if I got 5 pounds, would I be wishing I had more very soon? Would that even get me through calibration? It's just hard for me to judge without ever having seen one work in person or without ever seeing a part made from one. I know that's a loaded question since it's based on how much printing I do, but just a rough idea would suffice. Maybe the amount it takes to print a set of Prusa parts would be a good reference point?

Thanks.

somwhere probably less than 1 pound for a set of prusa parts.

5 lbs is about enough to print 5 sets of Prusa parts and one set takes me about 24 hours of machine time.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I chewed through my 1st pound fairly quickly on a MakerGear Prusa. It depends on the size and frequency of your prints. I was making some largish stuff and being wasteful while learning to design printed parts.

1lb/Prusa is an interesting metric to judge with. Nophead, do I remember correctly that you print at 30% fill except the vertices, which are 100%?

20-25% except pulleys couplings (100%) and ybrac-t 50% seems reasonable.

I print extruder brackets and small gear at 100% and also the z-couplers
I print the y-motor bracket at 50%.
Everything else at 25%.

The complete set weighs pretty close to 0.5Kg

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2011 09:24AM by nophead.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Thanks guys, that helps a lot. Sounds like I should start out with several pounds, I will likely be wasteful also, and make lots of ridiculous stuff at first. I didn't realize we had so much control of the fill percentages, that's good to know. It's also a good reference to know it takes you (nophead) about 24 hours of machine time to print a set of parts.

A question about the White Ant 3d printer. Is there an estimate of how much it might be to build or how much the kits might be in cost? Thank you.

shysf:
We might not know untill the book comes out.

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__________________________________________________________________________
"I like to be, what I like to see, in you and me.
I am the Stallion, Mang."

ISTAR Scope Club

I talked to Barnes and Noble. They said Printing in Plastic was published on June 3rd 2011. Any one find it yet?

I'm interested in the RAMPS that you have forsale. Does it come with the Arduino and the 4 steppers?

Thanks,
Rickey