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Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing

Posted by shearder 
Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 27, 2018 03:50AM
First PLEASE don't send me links on how to fix retraction and stringing smiling smiley I have done it all and takes minutes to fix!

BUT......

I Still have stringing and have applied ALL my knowledge over the last 8 years and that which i have applied to my other printers.

This printer is a new build using an MKS Base 1.4 for the first time. I have done EVERYTHING including new nozzles new hotends new bowden tubes new and different filaments!

The ONLY Thing i haven't done is change the board. the board is setup (has all jumpers on high) for 1/32 BUT using the a4498 drivers i think they only support 1/16??

will this affect retraction. nothing else is affected XYZ but trully battling with retraction issues. the prints are PERFECT BUT stringing is a problem. It is like fine spider web BUT it's there!

Before i rewire to a new MKS Base 1.5 i have in the drawer i thought i best ask.

Thanks.
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 27, 2018 04:23PM
How dry are you getting your filaments before printing?
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 27, 2018 06:29PM
You say you've tried everything else, you've made it clear that you don't want advice, and in any case you have given none of the most relevant information (filament, temperature, retraction speed). So why have you posted here instead of just trying the other board?

I doubt that it will make any difference, unless the existing board has a hardware fault, for example something that distorts the temperature reading.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2018 06:30PM by dc42.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 27, 2018 10:01PM
Quote
dc42
...you've made it clear that you don't want advice, .....
Nope but what I did say is that i have tried all the usual methods meaning all one would normally do and 99.9% of the links go to the same methods.
What I am asking, based on what I said, was something other than what I will post below. Which is why I was asking if microstepoing would cause it. I.e. skipped steps which would be accentuated possibly during retraction.

I have adjusted the voltage. Same situation.

So in short I have tried the following:

Ok so now officially the only thing I haven't tried is changing boards or drivers of voltage of the drivers or changing any wiring etc.

Regardless of anything the stringing is EXACTLY the same. Like fine spider web..

I am stumped

Ok I have posted this in other groups.

In short this is what I have done:

1. Adjusted retraction between 1mm @ 15mms to 30mm @ 350mms (whether it even reached that speed is neither her nor there)
2. Adjusted temps from 220 down to zero extrusion temp
3. Changed stepper motors
4. Changed bowden tube
5. Changed nozzle sizes
6. Adjusted filament size
7. Adjusted extrusion rate
8. Adjusted move speeds
9. Changed the bowden couplers
10. Changed heat break throat
11. Changed heating element
12. Changed heatbreak fan positions
13. Changed filament types and colours
14. Designed a different stepper mount closer to the carriage and shortened the bowden tube from 400mm to 250mm
15. Changed the extruder itself
16. Adjusted firmware settings
17. Changed e3d hotend to chimera

The results have proven that the silk strings are consistently the same. Which is good BUT there is still stringing.

Oh I have even used a fine file to smooth the nozzle tip and I still get a spider web. Literally as fine as spider silk.

BUT we are never too old to learn and maybe someone has experienced this. I.e. literally done EVERYTHING And then figured it out...

Hope that covered it.

Tnx
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 27, 2018 10:03PM
Quote
Number_5
How dry are you getting your filaments before printing?
I am in an area with very low humidity. Have been for many years and printing fine fienthe last 8 smiling smiley
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 27, 2018 10:05PM
Quote
dc42
You say you've tried everything else
Also the reason I mentioned this is that people put in a lot of effort at times to help and then post links etc etc etc only with someonentonsay oh i tried that.
It was a courtesy more than anything else.
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 28, 2018 06:36AM
Quote
shearder
Quote
Number_5
How dry are you getting your filaments before printing?
I am in an area with very low humidity. Have been for many years and printing fine fienthe last 8 smiling smiley

I had a feeling you were going to say that. winking smiley

For the benefit of others reading this, dry your filament, all of it, regardless of where you live.
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 28, 2018 02:00PM
When you say:

Quote

2. Adjusted temps from 220 down to zero extrusion temp

How low have you gone? Until the extruder can no longer extrude? Bear in mind that your hot end temperature readings may not be accurate.

In my experience, stringing when printing PLA can always be avoided by using a combination of low extrusion temperature, fast retraction, and good print cooling after the first layer. I have done very little printing of ABS (I now prefer PETG), but when I did I found stringing was much more of a problem than with PLA.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 28, 2018 02:05PM
Quote
dc42
When you say:

Quote

2. Adjusted temps from 220 down to zero extrusion temp

How low have you gone? Until the extruder can no longer extrude? Bear in mind that your hot end temperature readings may not be accurate..

Gone down from 235 (tonight) down to zero extrusion.
Yes there is temp measurement discrepancy as much as 10% that I've seen
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 28, 2018 02:10PM
What filament material are you printing with?



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 28, 2018 10:08PM
Quote
dc42
What filament material are you printing with?

PLA. 2 different brands. I'm going to design a direct extruder carriage for this printer and test
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 29, 2018 11:50AM
This may be far fetched but have you verified the extruder motor has stopped completely on non print moves? Perhaps there is a tinny bit of creep. Also do you have linear advance or some type of pressure compensation active?
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
November 29, 2018 03:35PM
Still struggling with how you managed to get stringing below 160(or any material out at all) or carried on testing below that temp.
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
December 20, 2018 07:24AM
This is the correct solution. If you are relying on ambient conditions, then the filament has absorbed too much moisture and will cause stringing when everything else is perfect. Hygroscopic materials MUST be dried out in an oven if left around for too long. Changing controllers isn't going to fix stringing.

It ain't what you don’t know....
It's what you know for sure that just ain’t so.

Quote
Number_5
Quote
shearder
Quote
Number_5
How dry are you getting your filaments before printing?
I am in an area with very low humidity. Have been for many years and printing fine fienthe last 8 smiling smiley

I had a feeling you were going to say that. winking smiley

For the benefit of others reading this, dry your filament, all of it, regardless of where you live.
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
December 21, 2018 09:07AM
replace thermal couple with one that settings match your printer firmware. make sure to verify its calibration with an external thermometer if possible.

stringiness will always happen a little bit, but if it is not controlled, and stringing even below 160 deg c, then it might be an error with sensor readings.

you might have an uncalibrated, or malfunctioning thermal sensor.

change parts out cheapest to most expensive. if it is new, contact manufacturer and see if they can help you.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2018 09:08AM by jamesdanielv.
Re: Can Micro stepping affect retraction and stringing
December 21, 2018 09:36AM
Thanks. I will try that. Makes sense.

Quote
jamesdanielv
replace thermal couple with one that settings match your printer firmware. make sure to verify its calibration with an external thermometer if possible.

stringiness will always happen a little bit, but if it is not controlled, and stringing even below 160 deg c, then it might be an error with sensor readings.

you might have an uncalibrated, or malfunctioning thermal sensor.

change parts out cheapest to most expensive. if it is new, contact manufacturer and see if they can help you.
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