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Wade vs Direct Extruders?

Posted by WesBrooks 
Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 08, 2018 12:30PM
Just recieved a kit where the Wade extruder has been replaced by a direct extruder. Are the benefits of this mainly for the supplier rather thn the user? ie lower part count, less to print for the kits? I've always been wary of direct extruders due to the lower torque.
Re: Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 08, 2018 12:49PM
Wade's extruders are huge and reduce printable area compared to a direct extruder. Back in the days of 3mm filament, a Wade's extruder was a selling point. Now people look at them like they are some sort of antique, and care more about print envelope and speed, so they want small and light. If you want the extra torque of a geared extruder you can get an extruder with a motor that has a gearbox, or get something like a Titan that has gears in a much smaller, lighter package than a Wade's extruder.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2018 12:49PM by the_digital_dentist.


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Re: Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 08, 2018 12:52PM
Sorry, meant direct interms of not geared, rather than direct to hot end.

So forgetting age and focusing purely on performance for bowden extruders are the wades still holding their corner?
Re: Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 08, 2018 01:24PM
I would say any geared extruder is going to be better than an ungeared extruder because you're going to get more push and better resolution (smoother plastic flow), so a Wade's extruder should still be OK. If you're bolting it to the printer's frame anyway the size won't affect performance of the printer. 1.75mm filament is easier to drive than 3 mm, and direct drive without gears was probably the main motivation to switch to 1.75mm filament.

I'm expecting that some time in the not too distant future filament is going to go to 1 mm, and the giant hot-end mount like the one on the E3D V6 will have to be done away with.


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Re: Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 09, 2018 02:43AM


Common sense is: an e-machine has full torque from 0RPM on.
I once found a torque curve of a pancake-stepper that surprised me. It looks, like it needs a gear reduction and run above 75RPM.

Maybe it was only their test-setup or the driver, but it's worth keeping in mind.
Re: Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 09, 2018 03:33AM
Quote
o_lampe
Common sense is: an e-machine has full torque from 0RPM on.
I once found a torque curve of a pancake-stepper that surprised me. It looks, like it needs a gear reduction and run above 75RPM.

Maybe it was only their test-setup or the driver, but it's worth keeping in mind.

My guess is that the stepper driver he was using implemented standstill current reduction.


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Re: Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 09, 2018 02:44PM
I still have a wade running in my old machine (8 years now) and it does a very good job, even though its strength is wasted on the 1.75mm filament and the Merlin hotend.
With 1.75mm filament there is no real need for a geared extruder, yes, the theoretical resolution is better, but i can't say i have seen that this ever mattered to me. At Protoworx they use simple direct drive extruders with a Merlin and the print quality is basically perfect down to layerheights of less than 0.1mm.
I'm not sure about that switch to 1mm filament the dentist expects, it is already used by bigger commercial systems, where the extruder and nozzle are minimalistic and are thrown away with the filament cartridge, but i have yet to see an advantage for RepRap printers.


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Re: Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 09, 2018 03:48PM
Quote
Srek
I still have a wade running in my old machine (8 years now) and it does a very good job, even though its strength is wasted on the 1.75mm filament and the Merlin hotend.
With 1.75mm filament there is no real need for a geared extruder, yes, the theoretical resolution is better, but i can't say i have seen that this ever mattered to me. At Protoworx they use simple direct drive extruders with a Merlin and the print quality is basically perfect down to layerheights of less than 0.1mm.
I'm not sure about that switch to 1mm filament the dentist expects, it is already used by bigger commercial systems, where the extruder and nozzle are minimalistic and are thrown away with the filament cartridge, but i have yet to see an advantage for RepRap printers.

With gears, you can use a smaller motor like a NEMA14. My extruder weight 180 gr with hotend, is as good as my previous non geared one using a NEMA17. I thrown away the MK8 I had bought, just kept the motor.
Today, no excuse to make, use a Wade considering good gears are readily available.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2018 03:49PM by MKSA.


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Re: Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 09, 2018 04:42PM
My direct drive extruder works fine with Nema 14 as well. I used them in the past but had problems. Later it turned out the problem was a design issue and that Nema 14 is sufficient. Maybe i switch back to it at some point, vut currently there is no need.


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Re: Wade vs Direct Extruders?
December 09, 2018 04:57PM
I've a couple of Ormerods with the standard reprappro extruders that have no spring loading or adjustment. These are geard but tend to get back driven by the filament when I try to get data points for non-linear extrusion correction at the higher speed points. The system seems limited to about 10mm3/sec at 190C for PLA. Is this all down to the hot end design or due to lack of extruder torque? I'm guessing it's hard to tell but the extrusion rate didn't seem to tally to some of the head line figures you hear towted by some.
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