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Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3

Posted by klcjr89 
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 12:39PM
Quote
WesBrooks
There's goingtobe a fair measure of twist on that stub axle from the belt tension.

Except there isn't. There's already two bearings in one block and putting weight on a pulley doesn't yield any causes for concern.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2019 12:41PM by klcjr89.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 01:05PM
@the_digital_dentist can you tell me the specs of the gear you used in your experiment? I take a look at the KhK catalog and it is overwhelming. I am afraid to buy something wrong.

@klcjr89 thank you I was thinking they cost a lot more
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 01:16PM
You're aware of the risk, that's all that I wanted to raise.

Yes, I guessed there were already two bearings in the block, but spreading these wider apart on the shaft would stiffen the assembly dramatically for minimal increase in print time.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 01:18PM
Quote
WesBrooks
You're aware of the risk, that's all that I wanted to raise.

Yes, I guessed there were already two bearings in the block, but spreading these wider apart on the shaft would stiffen the assembly dramatically for minimal increase in print time.

There's only so much room available with the longest 5mm shaft I could source in the USA. It's quite disappointing.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 01:24PM
Ah, that makes more sense now.

I had a similar issue recently trying to get a open source acrylic laser cut frame processed here in the uk only to find the acrylic used was what is in the uk an odd ball imperial size! :-D
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 01:39PM
Quote
WesBrooks
Ah, that makes more sense now.

I had a similar issue recently trying to get a open source acrylic laser cut frame processed here in the uk only to find the acrylic used was what is in the uk an odd ball imperial size! :-D

This was the longest I could find: [www.servocity.com]

Luckily it fits the Ender perfectly so the pulleys will line up with where I want.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2019 01:39PM by klcjr89.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 02:38PM
@Claustro

For gears, I think these would work well (and provide a 1:30 ratio which should be sufficient, although I defer to Mark on that assertion):
AG1-30R1J8
SWG1-R1

the 8mm bore means you could use inexpensive and readily available long pieces of linear shaft and 8mm bore belt pulleys instead of trying to source long pieces of 5mm shaft.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2019 03:05PM by obelisk79.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 02:41PM
Quote
obelisk79
@Claustro

For gears, I think these would work well:
AG1-30R1J8
SWG1-R1

the 8mm bore means you could use inexpensive and readily available long leadscrews and 8mm bore belt pulleys instead of trying to source long pieces of 5mm shaft.

I wouldn't want to use a leadscrew as a shaft.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 02:49PM
Quote
klcjr89
I wouldn't want to use a leadscrew as a shaft.

You're right, 8mm steel shaft is readily available and cheap, no need for a leadscrew. My brain must have been misfiring. I updated my previous comment.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2019 03:06PM by obelisk79.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 03:20PM
Quote
obelisk79
@Claustro

For gears, I think these would work well (and provide a 1:30 ratio which should be sufficient, although I defer to Mark on that assertion):
AG1-30R1J8
SWG1-R1

the 8mm bore means you could use inexpensive and readily available long pieces of linear shaft and 8mm bore belt pulleys instead of trying to source long pieces of 5mm shaft.

thank you I am asking a quote for this 2 gears but I am thinking if would be possible to use a 5mm bore worms with a 8 mm gear.
With this measure you can directly attach the worms to a standard nema 17 motors while using a 8mm for the shaft.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 03:40PM
The cheap gears I used (which failed miserably for this application) had 5 mm bore in the worm and 8 mm bore in the disc gear. I used those because I wanted to use a NEMA17 motor with 5 mm shaft, and had the 8mm output shaft already installed in the printer.

When/if you get tired of messing around, the Rino works well for this application and doesn't cost that much more than screwing around with a couple different gear sets.

I have no idea if thicker bed plate is needed for beds larger than 300x300. I guess it depends on how think you want your first layer to be.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 03:57PM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
the Rino works well.

Is this the same rino you bought right? It cost 155 dolars shipped to Italy...could be a safer option .
Is a godd price ? I am not an expert and I am having difficult sourcing thus stuff locally because I don't know the exact italian word for describe it :-)

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2019 04:18PM by claustro.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 04:17PM
The Rino is also too big for a printer like the Ender-3.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
April 30, 2019 04:21PM
I am interested in the belt system for the z axis like general argument , I have a D-bot 300x300 and this could ok in my case

could this be a cheaper option for reach high gear ratio?
[www.omc-stepperonline.com]

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2019 05:07PM by claustro.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
May 01, 2019 12:06AM
The Rino is overkill for just about any 3D printer. I'm only lifting about 3.5 kg with it. But for the price it would be hard to find smaller parts to make anything that performs as well.

For lifting a lightweight X axis, a geared motor like the one Calustro linked might be fine, but the gearbox has multiple gears, and flaws in any of them may result in repeating artifacts in the Z axis of prints. The only way to find out is to try it. The Rino has just a worm and disc gear, both of which are machined to very tight tolerances, and the whole assembly is rock solid and perfectly aligned, mounted in quality bearings, and includes the motor. The new cost of the Rino is about $800.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
May 03, 2019 02:02AM
Quote
claustro

thank you I am asking a quote for this 2 gears but I am thinking if would be possible to use a 5mm bore worms with a 8 mm gear.
With this measure you can directly attach the worms to a standard nema 17 motors while using a 8mm for the shaft.

I you need to purchase them, look at [uk.misumi-ec.com]

I just ordered :
[uk.misumi-ec.com]
[uk.misumi-ec.com]

Was cheaper and easier than from KHKs own page.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
May 03, 2019 03:18AM
thank you for let me know about misumi option unfortunately I don't have a VAT number and they don't sell to private buyer.sad smiley
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
May 03, 2019 09:13AM
Quote
martin1454
Quote
claustro

thank you I am asking a quote for this 2 gears but I am thinking if would be possible to use a 5mm bore worms with a 8 mm gear.
With this measure you can directly attach the worms to a standard nema 17 motors while using a 8mm for the shaft.

I you need to purchase them, look at [uk.misumi-ec.com]

I just ordered :
[uk.misumi-ec.com]
[uk.misumi-ec.com]

Was cheaper and easier than from KHKs own page.

Misumi sells KHK gears unless they don't in your country?
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
June 29, 2019 02:22PM
I finished the belted Z axis upgrade yesterday and it works!

I had to reduce my Z velocity to 6mm/s though, which is fine I think.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2019 02:27PM by klcjr89.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
June 29, 2019 02:38PM
What parts did you end up using? Pictures?


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
June 29, 2019 02:39PM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
What parts did you end up using? Pictures?

Hello, I used the same parts I posted earlier in this thread from KHK gears; the 40:1 worm gear set.

I made the belt path as you suggested with two individual belts.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
August 26, 2019 01:51PM
Hello to all,
I'm interested in modifying my ender 3 with belt on z and worm gear. So, did you complete the job?
b.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
August 27, 2019 02:38AM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
The way I built the Z axis, the bed always has at least 800 mm of belt to hang from even when the bed is at the top of the Z axis. As the print gets taller, the length of belt between the bed supports and the drive pulley gets longer, so the belts will stretch more (still not enough to matter). You could easily reduce the belt stretch by building the Z axis so the drive pulleys are at the top of the Z axis. The you'd start with the bed hanging from very short lengths of belt and there would be almost no stretch. I tested it with the bed at about the middle of the Z axis, so it was hanging from about 1100 mm of belt. In a shorter Z axis printer, there will be less stretch.

Hello,
I know that several months have passed since this message. Did you mean a configuration with worm gear up or down? In an ender 3, to move x axis up and down (so not to move bed) perhaps is more convenient put worm gear up, but is it the right choice, as you you said?
Many thanks

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2019 02:52AM by bigsub.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
August 27, 2019 09:22AM
It doesn't really matter whether you put the drive on top or at the bottom of the Z axis. Belt stretch is negligible, especially in a machine that lifts a relatively light weight X axis. I put the Z axis drive at the bottom of the Z axis because my printer is a corexy machine and the Z axis drive would have been in the way of the filament feed which comes down into the machine from the top. In a machine where you're lifting the X axis, you could easily put the Z axis drive at the top of the machine if you wanted to minimize Z axis belt stretch. In a corexy machine, if you feed the filament to the extruder carriage via a tube from the side or below, you could put the Z axis drive at the top of the machine.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
August 27, 2019 09:54AM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
It doesn't really matter whether you put the drive on top or at the bottom of the Z axis. Belt stretch is negligible, especially in a machine that lifts a relatively light weight X axis. I put the Z axis drive at the bottom of the Z axis because my printer is a corexy machine and the Z axis drive would have been in the way of the filament feed which comes down into the machine from the top. In a machine where you're lifting the X axis, you could easily put the Z axis drive at the top of the machine if you wanted to minimize Z axis belt stretch. In a corexy machine, if you feed the filament to the extruder carriage via a tube from the side or below, you could put the Z axis drive at the top of the machine.
ok, thanks for the reply.
Re: Belted Z axis conversion for Ender-3
August 27, 2019 10:15AM
Quote
bigsub
Hello to all,
I'm interested in modifying my ender 3 with belt on z and worm gear. So, did you complete the job?
b.

Yes, the job is complete but we've been extremely busy fulfilling flex plate and magnet orders.
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