Deut3 Cerberus with Hermera Hot end & supervolcano upgrade

Hello and good day to you all. I am in the process of creating my first 3d printer, which need print up to or over 550 degrees celcius with the heated bed reaching up to or over 200 degrees celcius to reach my desired specifications. I have already decided I want to use a 1.75 diameter set up for filament and run a 1.00mm nozzle size for optimum performance (speed & quality) , and will be converting a few end pieces to 24v, if possible, for less wiring using DC 12V to DC 24V Boost Converter Step up Voltage Regulator Waterproof Module Car Power Supply Voltage Transformer or 2 seperate power supplies (1 12v, 1 24v) any suggestions on which are welcomed. My intentions are to adapt the Cerberus design from Michigan Professor Dr. pearce, with many internal and external upgrades. I have already ascertained and assembled an e3d hermera 1.7mm 24v direct kit and purchased the hermes bowden adaptor as well. I have also ascertained and equipped the 24v SuperVolcano upgrade kit, supervolcano plated copper nozzle, as well as a high heat sensor and heating cartridge for such, for high temp potential, at or above 550 c. Underneath the set up i will be mounting a 110v/220v 1000w ceramic heater to keep the temperature within the enclosure high and consistant to prevent warping, delamination, etc. as per the original cerberus design.

I will be using a duet3d mainboard 6hc in conjuction with a duet3d thermocouple daughterboard and Duet3d PT100 sisterboard. My display will be a Duet3d PanelDue 7i integrated touchscreen. For stepping motors, I will be utilizing 3 e3d nema 17 high tourqe stepper motors, a nema 17 stepper motor unipolar L=48mm w/ gear ratio 14:1 planetary gearbox, & a nema 17 external 48mm stack 0.4a lead 2mm/0.07874".

For the frame I purchased: 2020 T slot extrusions & hardware, and will be fitting myself to cerberus specs, but may consider adding a bit more height potentially, to account for the supervolcano hot end size

A few other additional items i figured I'd need were as follows: 12v/24v switching power supply, solid state relays, microswitches, a series toggle single pole circuit breaker, brushless radial fans, borosilicate glass, g2 belt, etc. I am considering using individual DM542T stepper drivers at 1/128 micro step resolution but not sure if that would devalue the microstepping from duet3d?

I still am in need of all aluminum, wood, & 3d printed pieces, and have not found a reasonably priced seller as of yet for the 3d printed parts. I need all 3d printed parts printed in PETG on any RepRap-class FFF 3-D printer.

Being completely new to this, I am asking for any and all constructive input to help aid me along my way.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2021 11:14PM by Duet3dHermeraVolcano.

Pics wont upload, say too large

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2021 11:14PM by Duet3dHermeraVolcano.

Are you going to try to print PBI? That's the only polymer i can think of that needs more than
420c. Or maybe Vespel?

I am planning on 3d printing and annealing polyetherketoneketone (PEKK) and polyetherimide (PEI, ULTEM) with tensile strengths of at least 77.5 and 80.5 MPa, respectively. And yes if these runs are consistently successful then on to PBI.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2021 11:10PM by Duet3dHermeraVolcano.

Cool. Typically high microstepping wont provide any benefits in accuracy or in how quite the steppers are. 128x will gobble up your available step rate taxing the processor. The materials you want to print dont like fast print speeds but you do want fast non printing moves. A good rule of thumb is to mechanically gear your system to an acceptable resolution using a full step then use the least amount of microstepping to make it run smooth Here's a good article explaining why microstepping is reliable for making the motor smoother/quite but dont expect accuracy.
[www.machinedesign.com]
Even if it was accurate the mechanics of a hobby built machine typically wouldn't be able to take advantage of the resolution.
Unless you're making only small parts you will need an actively heated chamber with PEKK or PEI no matter how hot the build plate is. Somewhere close to the Tg is about right so you basically have to build an oven then fit your motion system around that. Both of those materials shrink significantly (and warp) when annealed, post print, so dont expect accurate parts unless you print in a chamber close to the Tg. Then you don't have to anneal. Or mechanically hold the parts down then fiddle with scaling until you hit the desired accuracy. Possibly many attempts depending on complexity of part.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2021 12:24PM by Bill Clark.

Thank you bill, this information has been most useful.

As for the microstepping drivers, i believe i will wait and see what I can do between my duet3d 6h board and fiddling with the code/software, and go from there if i feel any additional microstepping for smoothness/quiteness is warranted that would outweigh reducing individual motor torque by doing such

Yes, my build is an upgraded version of the open source cerberus design, and is a fully enclosed with a 1000w ceramic heater in addition to the high temp bed and high temp head/extruder system. All non heat resistant parts have been designed/redesigned to be seperated from the chamber (oven). I have also considered upgrading the two cooling fans to a larger mm as well as 24v.

Do you have any opinion between choosing to run both a 12v and 24v power supply simultaneously, or instead using a dc-dc upstep DC 12V to 24V Boost Converter Step up Voltage Regulator and one power supply/wall cord?

Thank you for the info on annealing these materials, as my intention is to eventually print aerospace level prints, or as close as possible to such, regardless of what materials are used. I was under the impression from my short reading, that annealing in real-time (using controlled oven essentially) was a much better way to achieve the maximum hardness & add a hair more flexibility to printed parts. Would any of this apply to PBI, as it claims it has no true melting point, and is my end goal filament for this project as of now.?

Thank you for you help.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2021 02:10PM by Duet3dHermeraVolcano.

I'm not aware of anyone who has printed PBI but my guess is it's the mother of all nightmare filaments to print. On top of that its insanely expensive. Probably have to make your own filament but it is injection molded so theoretically it can be pushed out of a printer nozzle.
I know Stratasys doesn't require annealing after printing PEI and the part finishes the same color as if it was annealed. Now that their patent is up I suspect we will see a flood of new projects like yours so we will go through a bit of a growth spurt.....again. I'm building my second high temp printer and can not imagine being without that capability.
Not sure regarding your electrical question although it is common (across all industries) to bring in a high voltage and step it down not the other way around. Did you look at the Duet documentation? David thinks that stuff out pretty well so there may be outputs for what you need without having to step up and down off the board. I'm going to the MB6HC for the new machine but have yet to look deep into the controller. Currently using Duet 2, ethernet.

Yes pbi will definitely be a challenge, in my opinion mostly with ascertaining the desired filament and size, as most sold comes in a mixed yarn at one specific size. I plan on designing the printer to be able to print up to pbi if succesful, but will have the ability to pretty much print any and all common (and some not so common) materials short of metal ( not ready to design an enclosed heated machine using laser and metal dust just yet, lol)

Agreed the high temp enclosed chamber opens so many more doors.

Thank you, that was my first initial plan but thought it may be done different for 3d printers potentially. Thank you. That will be perfect either way as my power supply can run at 24v and downstep to 12v if needed and/or I will go through the details on my duet3d 6h board and see if it was configured to do just that first.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2021 02:00PM by Duet3dHermeraVolcano.

The Duet 3 MB6HC has a 12V 0.8A regulator on board intended for powering fans.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Thank you for that bit of helpful information dc42, I will try to make time this week to read duet3 6hc documents thouroughly, as I have been very busy wrapping up other projects.

In the meantime, does this imply that the 24v fans i purchased should be returned for 12v, or just that the board has a specific slot built in especially for 12v fans? What would you personally recommend? As either or is easily do able if I know soon.

Thank you. Much appreciated.

You can use 12V fans or 24V fans if you power the Duet 3 with 24V. The MB6HC has six low current outputs suitable for fans. Each bank of three can be set to 12V or VIN.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Thank you so much for that clarification dc42. Much appreciated. As I am planning on running the board on 24v and down stepping a few things to 12v as needed.

For high heat prints would bowden or direct drive be preffered?

Direct drive all day long. The only advantage with a bowden is getting rid of the moving mass of a direct drive motor for better performance at higher speeds. High performance plastics dont like higher speeds. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears the extruder stays stationary in the machine you are building so it would be a disadvantage to use a bowden.
How hot is the chamber supposed to get on the Cerberus?

Hello bill,

Once again, thank you for your response. I indeed want to do direct, and have ensured my system is retrofitted to do both as I have ascertained the hermes bowden adapter for my e3d hemera, my only dilema is the temperature, as you are correct- in that my cerberus design has a set stationary hot end and a moving hotbed system essentially. I know my system can withstand the weight from direct, just not sure if bowden was originally selected for heat reasons due to the extruder getting up to or above 550c and the chamber at high heat near that as well. The original project was done with cost in mind, so im hoping that was the only reason bowden drive was used?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2021 11:56PM by Duet3dHermeraVolcano.

[ibb.co]

I use a thin metal shield about 100 mm square between the heater block and the bottom of the extruder (right were the heat break is) which ties into silicone impregnated fiberglass fabric that completely isolates the heat of the chamber/hotend from the extruder. You could do the same less the silicone fiberglass. just leave an air gap between the shield and the extruder and blow some air towards it. Too bad you cant flip the heatsinks veins to point down on the hermera. It was obviously designed to do the opposite.

Great idea! Thank you for that. That completely quells my heat worry for going direct drive.
Any chance you would consider uploading a picture url of your metal shield and fiberglass fabric setup for visual inspiration? Lol
Thank you once again kind sir.

Heres where im at as of now. Ups oakland has had my aluminum extrusions for over a week...

[ibb.co]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2021 01:45AM by Duet3dHermeraVolcano.

It's pretty self explanatory. Wouldn't mind showing more but there are specific reasons why I cant

Thank you. No need for more photos, i got it from here. Thank you for that. When i retrofit my own I will upload my shield set up as well.

Hello again gents, been busy making engineering design variations. What are your inputs on running 2 hot ends on a stationary head platform?

As at least one set up at least will be retrofitted to run off of a pellet extruder and both above 500c, and i am retrofitted for both bowden and direct on everything. Will water cool with an e3d pump with Rev3rd RD-M10 NEXT-GEN PELLET EXTRUDER

I can either rig them on a gt2 belt system to rotate to either set position

Or make a pivoting circular style bearing system that rotates to each set location

Or switch out hot ends as needed

Or set locations of each offset to account for trying to run both simultaneously

Or...?

Feel free to add any and all input. Thank you.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2021 12:55AM by Duet3dHermeraVolcano.

I would say keep it as simple as possible first. You can always go back and make tool changers after its running. If you keep adding complexity the project will drag. Ask me how I know.