Still have issue with One window on Mac O SX 10.4

Some weeks ago I noted in a thread relating to a problem I have when I attempt to run the host java software on my mac mini (Power PC 10.4) Tiger.

The main updated mac install notes state "To Be written" The only docs I could find indicated they were obsolete. I used them and everything installed.

Art of illusion runs fine. So my java engine seems to be installed correctly.

reprap.jar only opens the one window.

I attempted to make a gui folder and move the ping files there. The reprap.jar file does not seem to be a package, so I can not open it and see if these files are soft linked.

While I am an atmel programmer (assembly only please!!!) In this case I really want to be an end user. I do not like adding tools into my mac. Preferably I draw the line at Xcode. I do not like a cluttered desktop and I do not like a cluttered ~/usr/bin directory.

It looks like the source code must be re-compiled. Searching about a bit I find the lack of any decent documentation frustrating.

It may be something simple. I installed the *.jar extentions in the /Library and not the ~/Library as I am a single user on this machine and there was no existing java folder in ~library.

What I really find frustrating with open source build yourself apps, it the dependence on the creators file paths and scripts hard coded. This is a lot of the reason I do not want to have to re-compile this code, I have enough on my plate with seven other projects (some atmel assembly) to have to fuss with this.

All I want is a simple step by step guide how to install the host software to run on my mac mini (Tiger.)

-julie

Bump.

I really do not like having to post a reply to my own message.

Can someone please help here. At the moment I am inclined to agree with the wired article that RepRap is a lie. That it does not work for the average person.

I have a number of projects to deal with, some are Atmel assembly based. I do not have time to figure out the installation paths to recompile the host code.

I did waste some more time attempting to understand the java version numbers. I am confused as to the requirement for Java 6. I have what is according to apple java 1.5.0.16 on my mac. There does not seem to be a Java 6 for the Tiger (10.4.11) Java 6 seems to be for Leopard only.

If reprap is going to be successful then it needs to support the older versions of the OS. I am not going to dedicate an new expensive machine, when I have serviceable equipment which runs stable operating systems.

Can someone at least explain "experimental" in the mac release? If Macs are not supported at present can this be in a FAQ.

It is really frustrating that there is an "obsolete" page of instructions that refer to a "no information" page under the newer documentation.

I just want to be able to open both windows on the host software and make sure I am not going to waste more time on this project.

If I must recompile, then users like myself and others the "Exact" path trees in which to install the development system (netbeans?)

If other do not now the answer can they at least state that they do not know and this needs to be looked into?


-julie

Can't help you with the java host software - I've been waiting for a Mac OSX release that works myself.

As an interim setup, you could try booting the 0.6 RepRap DVD - that worked for me to test things out, but it was too slow to do any useful printing.

As for simple printing, the ReplicatorG software worked well, even on my Mac. It's Java too, but quite simple - it uses Gcodes only, so you'll have to use Skeinforge to slice up your STL's. I printed an entire Darwin using that combo. Have a look at replicat.org. Both Zach and Marius use Macs to develop, so there's no problem running it on a Mac.

Good luck!

Wade

The LiveDVD is now quite out of date. I had hoped to have a new version by now but I'm procrastinating more than I thought I would.

The 0.6 version of the DVD will work (the 0.7 version is not so good though) but the GUI of the host software has changed significantly since then (including moving to the later version of Java which is not supported by Mac OS X 10.4).

I don't understand why Mac OS X 10.4 does not support Java 6 as it shouldn't be too hard to do and it has been out for around a year but there you go. I would suspect its an excuse to get people to upgrade to Leopard. I'm in the process of helping a friend switch her laptop to Linux rather than pay to upgrade to Leopard :-)

BTW, Java versions for the last wee while have been confusing because a lot of people drop the first 1 (probably as a marketing thing) so Java 6 = 1.6 etc.

This is going to be a real problem if the requirement is for JE6.

In effect this violates all the hype for using java and invalidates the premise of cross platform usage. More argument that reprap is an illusion and a lie (sorry.)

With the amount of attention this software is getting on blogs et all, then it must be realized that the project is going mainstream, and that support for older platforms, must be accounted for as well.

My understanding, in what reading I did when looking for the differences between JE5 and JE6 is that JE6 is 64 bit, which the older hardware does not support.

In searching the build trees for mac OSX reprap software I do not see any earlier versions. Perhaps there is something I overlooked in a code repository.

This still begs the question what is required that is in JE6 that is not in JE5?

I did download netbeans to see if I can recompile the code or find why only one window is active. I still would like to know what is the best path setup locations for buiding the software. At the moment I have everything in the documents folder. I suspect things go into ~/usr although I am an IDE programmer, mostly who programs embedded systems using the Atmel IDE.

-julie

sheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> More argument that reprap is an illusion
> and a lie (sorry.)
>
That's the second or third time that you've published that throwaway line of yours. It's getting more than a bit tedious and annoying. You seem to be really fixated on dissing reprap whenever the opportunity presents itself.

> In effect this violates all the hype for using
> java and invalidates the premise of cross platform
> usage.

The reprap community has been doing its level best to make and keep the mainstream Reprap system, viz, Darwin, cross-platform insofar as that is possible. Between Windows and Linux it works fairly well. Because of the nature of things, however, there aren't that many people trying to get it running on Apple systems. Because of that, there haven't been as many hours put in on working out the bugs in that particular port.

Just a few years ago, if you weren't running Linux you weren't running Reprap software, period. I finally gave up and wrote my own software in a Windows-friendly environment. About 18 months ago, however, a bunch of reprap enthusiasts who knew both linux and windows well and who preferred working in windows managed to work most of the bugs out of that port.

Julie, like it or not, you and about a half-dozen other people with Mac's are breaking new ground here just like those guys were. If you are doing IDE work with ATMEL you should have a fairly good idea that Java as a programming language and even more so as a as a cross-platform one is not at all what it is cracked up to be. What that means is that you can either bear down and do the hard work that this will take or take the chicken way out like I did and write your own stuff in your preferred operating system.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2009 03:38PM by Forrest Higgs.

---

-------------------------------------------------------

Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Thomas A. Edison

Forrest Higgs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sheep Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > More argument that reprap is an illusion
> > and a lie (sorry.)
> >
> That's the second or third time that you've
> published that throwaway line of yours. It's
> getting more than a bit tedious and annoying. You
> seem to be really fixated on dissing reprap
> whenever the opportunity presents itself.
>

Fair enough. I probably was a bit stronger than I needed to be. That seems to be the nature of the net these days. That one has to be childishly loud to be heard these days.



> Just a few years ago, if you weren't running Linux
> you weren't running Reprap software, period. I
> finally gave up and wrote my own software in a
> Windows-friendly environment. About 18 months
> ago, however, a bunch of reprap enthusiasts who
> knew both linux and windows well and who preferred
> working in windows managed to work most of the
> bugs out of that port.
>
I did not know this. The presentation in the blogs is that this system is here and now. I waited two weeks for a response as most of the other forums I am on such as AVR freaks, tend to have more traffic.

> What that means is
> that you can either bear down and do the hard work
> that this will take or take the chicken way out
> like I did and write your own stuff in your
> preferred operating system.

I think I understand now. Perhaps this should be in the FAQ. Mac users are used to being handed things on a platter. That said, I would be interested to learn more about the development environment set up. So that I may compile this code myself and "debug the code the hard way myself."

Preferably I would rather spend my time on the embedded side, but if the host side needs work, then who am I do say no to assisting others with my frustration.

Perhaps I should start by asking what is the history of the Mac development?

-julie

I was one of those who worked on repackaging the RepRap host software in its current form.

The same code is used on Linux, Windows and Mac, and for Linux and Windows it only requires Java 5. In fact I specifically wanted to move to 6 (it simplifies things with the JARs you need), but I was told we could not.

So the code does NOT require Java 6, but the environment may. It may be that the Mac version of something like RXTX is only built for Java 6 or that there are enough bugs in the Java 5 on older OSX that it does not work. So any dependency on Java 6 is not really a RepRap problem.

One possibility would be to try to sort out the problems with OpenJDK, which should then run on not only the Mac (any of the Unix based versions) but a whole bunch of other platforms as well. I will spend a little time seeing if I can get to the bottom of the OpenJDK problem.

David

>
> >
> I did not know this. The presentation in the
> blogs is that this system is here and now. I
> waited two weeks for a response as most of the
> other forums I am on such as AVR freaks, tend to
> have more traffic.
>
Some years ago we were using a little network of Pic 16F628A boards on a serial loop and programming using the SDCC compiler, which was, not to put too fine a point on it, a pig. Zach Smith, another core team member, found the Arduino project and suggested that Arduino and the gcc (iirc) compiler would be a more productive direction to move in. Since then Zach and a very few others have been doing the heavy lifting on that.

On the PC side there are, to the best of my knowledge, two routes you can take. The java app was written by Dr. Bowyer while Enrique has written what I believe is an equivalent, Skeinforge, in Python. I don't know if Python is less user hostile on Mac's but you might want to check with Enrique about Skeinforge since the Java app is causing you so much grief.
>
> I think I understand now. Perhaps this should be
> in the FAQ.
>
It probably should. There are, however, so few Mac users so far that other priorities probably took precedence.
>
> Mac users are used to being handed
> things on a platter.
>
LOL! Reprap is far too young a project for there to be platters, I'm afraid, much less things handed about on one.
>
> That said, I would be
> interested to learn more about the development
> environment set up. So that I may compile this
> code myself and "debug the code the hard way
> myself."
>
That would be a signal contribution to the project and, I expect, much appreciated by other Mac users.
>
> Preferably I would rather spend my time on the
> embedded side, but if the host side needs work,
> then who am I do say no to assisting others with
> my frustration.
>
It would be nice to have more help on the embed side, certainly. Your preferences and personal needs will drive your decision in that regard, though, I expect.
>
> Perhaps I should start by asking what is the
> history of the Mac development?
>
LOL! There isn't much of one, to my knowledge. I've noticed maybe half a dozen people using Macs around here. I haven't used them since the mid-1990's, however, when Apple tried to transition to the PowerMac and made such a mess of things, so I don't pay too much attention to that aspect of things.

You might want to look at the forum thread.

[forums.reprap.org]

I expect most of the people involved, aside from yourself, posted to it.

---

-------------------------------------------------------

Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something.

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

Thomas A. Edison

I think it is a valid point that the OSX page should be more descriptive about the state of that port and how to get it working. Or (as I understand) the alternatives like Skienforge or ReplicatorG. I'm on leopard and after 7 hours trying still not able to run the host software. I think that when RepRap continues expanding at the present tempo and getting more mature that the amount of people using os x will rapidly grow. Actually I think there are many mac users at the moment but of the kind that is flexible, preferring mac but not afraid to boot up linux or windows in a virtual machine. Taking the road of the least resistance .

I'll check in my university (ICT) if there is someone who can contribute to the mac port. Who's doing the developement at the moment?

@David, I think the requirement for Java 6 is specifically to do with the GUI and the libraries needed to display it. I noticed that I needed Java 6 installed (on my Linux laptop) around 6 months ago.

The Java 6 code comes with GroupLayout built in, Java 5 did not, and that is why the external version is packaged with the code.

The revised Linux and Windows instructions do still say Java 5 is required. So either those instructions are wrong (in which case they need fixing) or the Java 6 requirement on the Mac is something different and simply down to a Mac restriction.

The latest version, at least the latest Linux version, includes the file swing-layout-1.0.3.jar, which is the jar containing the Java 5 version of GroupLayout.

Has anyone actually tried to run the Mac version with Java 5?

David

Well I just tried the host software with the latest OpenJDK build on Debian sid, and it worked. So the next thing to try would be the latest version of OpenJDK (and I understand thet there is one) on a Mac and see if that works. But I do not have access to a Mac to try it on.

If this works on the Mac as well, it means that we can drop the requirement for the swing-layout jar, and use the now native GroupLayout in Java 6.

The irony is that it was the lack of Java 6 support on the Mac that was the reason I was told I could not change to Java 6.

Today I tried the Skeinforge + ReplicatorG combo and must say that this runs without to many problems. The only hickup was that I set my Java preferences to prefer Java 6 over 5 and therefore ReplicatorG crashed after a test run. Is there a serious difference between the RR host software and this combo in functionality?

d

davidgoodenough Wrote:

> Has anyone actually tried to run the Mac version
> with Java 5?
>
> David

In theory, that is what started my quest for assistance.

The issue I have is only one window opens. The one with the rotatey green grid. There seems to be no way to open or import STL files to view on the green grid. The error message indicates an exception opening the USB port.

I have borrowed a broken ibook G4 from a friend. If I can get the GPU soldered then I plan to install a development system and see if I can learn how to compile the host code and see what may be the issue. This may take me a week or two as I work 3 days a week on other projects.



-julie

That sounds like an old version. Are you absolutely certain you are using the current version (the current linux version is dated 2008/Dec/18)?

David

No I am not sure.

The package I downloaded is named reprap-host-mac-20081218-experimental.zip Which is in a folder named reprap-host-mac-20081218.

Most of the files do seem to have a 20081218 datestamp on them. So I would feel that this is the latest version.

I have also downloaded the full reprap tarball and unzipped it to a ~/sandbox folder. this has the mac tree with the folder reprap-host-src-20081228 the date code on these is 20090202. I have not attempted to replace these libraries with the 20081218 libraries.

I am still unclear if the Java extensions need to go into /Library/Java/Extentions
and not ~/Library which has no /Java/Extentions subfolder. I am also unclear if these libraries need to have specific file permissions set.

j3d-org-java3d-all.jar
vecmath.jar
RXTXcomm.jar
librxtxSerial.jnilib
libjogl_cg.jnilib
libjogl_awt.jnilib
j3dcore.jar
libjogl.jnilib
libgluegen-rt.jnilib
jogl.jar
j3dutils.jar
gluegen-rt.jar

Most of these files have a 20080322 date stamp. These files were downloaded from the respective source websites as documented in the Obsolete?? install instructions.

The rxtx libraries have 2006 datestamps on the file.


-jule


davidgoodenough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That sounds like an old version. Are you
> absolutely certain you are using the current
> version (the current linux version is dated
> 2008/Dec/18)?
>
> David

ok, that looks to be the latest.

Just to be clear, on the new layout, NO files need to be copied out of the directory that you install. In fact if you have old files that you have copied out they need to be removed.

I am afraid that I am coming to the end of ability to help here, as I do not have a Mac and so I can not try things out. I am not sure who did the packaging for the Mac and whoever wrote the documentation, perhaps they could step in here and explain what why uniquely the Mac requires Java 6 (when everyone else is held back to Java 5 because some Macs do not yet have Java 6).

David

I added a small comment on Java 5 vs. Java 6 here for clarification:
[reprap.org]

I tried to play around with the host software on Mac myself back when it required Java 6, but I had to give up as it was too time consuming to get it to work properly.
After that I moved to using Skeinforge and eventually ReplicatorG.

If there are any Java programmers out there using a Mac, it would be awesome to get the host software brushed up for Mac users, including the missing build/install documentation.

---

~/= Marius

--
We are Elektropeople for a better living.
[reprap.soup.io]
[www.metalab.at]

Has anyone tried the Mac version of OpenJDK-6? I tried the latest version on Linux and it now works. This may be the better solution to the problem.

David

Marius, thanks for adding the comment about Java 5 vs 6 and the redirection to Skeinforge and ReplicatorG. Helps a lot for people looking for Mac software. That combo works for me but had some trouble finding the latest Skeinforge version. The page you refer to [reprap.org] redirects you to the latest post on [forums.reprap.org] but the latest version of Skeinforge is in the Powwow thread at [forums.reprap.org] or at [members.axion.net].

Dont know what OpenJDK-6 is but when I google it together with 'Mac' I end up on a blog talking about an experimental 'partial port' of OpenJDK-6 for Mac. Sounds like more instead of less trouble . Just my 2c.

EDIT: maybe I was to quick, using OS X as extra search term landed me on [landonf.bikemonkey.org] a developer preview of OpenJDK-6.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2009 11:53AM by unfold.

Of course that document is from November 2007, some 15 months ago. A lot can change in that time.

I did get the Java Host partially running on OS X 10.4.11. That is I can use the XYZ console. Printing results in a Java Error (also logged in the SW forum here [forums.reprap.org])

Some details on how I compiled the latest SVN version using NetBeans:
[1m93.blogspot.com]

Right now I use Skeinforge and ReplicatorG as well. The latter GUI is a bit ugly, but it does the job.

Regards,
Johan