SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 19, 2015 05:10AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 55 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 19, 2015 05:18AM |
Admin Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,001 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 19, 2015 12:08PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 903 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 19, 2015 06:16PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 34 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 27, 2015 05:07AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,616 |
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cxandy
AZSMZ Mini
AZSMZ
Generation 7 Electronics | Teacup Firmware | RepRap DIY |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 27, 2015 06:33AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 903 |
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Traumflug
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cxandy
AZSMZ Mini
AZSMZ
If you contact them, please also ask them to publish their sources. Just had to tag it as NotOpenSource.
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 28, 2015 05:09AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 364 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 29, 2015 07:43AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,616 |
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vreihen
I know zilch about OSH requirements.
Generation 7 Electronics | Teacup Firmware | RepRap DIY |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 29, 2015 06:23PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 903 |
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Traumflug
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vreihen
I know zilch about OSH requirements.
600+ posts in this forum and then this? You're kidding, aren't you? Think of what you'd need to make an identical copy or a slightly modified copy. That's what's required.
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 30, 2015 06:27AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,616 |
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vreihen
Honestly, the software side of open-source makes me want to pull my hair out with all of the different licenses out there.
Generation 7 Electronics | Teacup Firmware | RepRap DIY |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards January 30, 2015 07:36AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 903 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 01, 2015 07:50PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 903 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 02, 2015 09:35AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 903 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 03, 2015 07:03AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 351 |
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Traumflug
That said, glad to see so many other 32-bit boards. kthx on IRC currently counts 10 such designs. The only really adorable thing about Smoothie is its marketing. Arthur got that really right. Just saw a review video of Thomas Sandlander and had to watch how he cheers on how you "just edit a text file for configuration" and praises it as revolutionary and new. In fact it's the exactly same thing we always did. We edited configuration.h and hit the upload button.
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Traumflug
Same for stepper drivers: works fine, but nothing new.
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 03, 2015 07:56AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 03, 2015 08:06AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 351 |
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dc42
Worth pointing out that it's not just the Smoothie that has more user-friendly configuration, better step pulse timing, more precise acceleration etc. because RepRapFirmware on Duet electronics does all that too.
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dc42
AFAIK it's also the only firmware that calculates the step pulse times on a delta properly.
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 03, 2015 01:13PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
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arthurwolf
I hear your web interface is very nice too. Do you have screenshots of it somewhere ?
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arthurwolf
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dc42
AFAIK it's also the only firmware that calculates the step pulse times on a delta properly.
We actually want to try to implement that ( we are currently moving towards per-step acceleration, per-step IK is next on the list ).
I'm a bit lost in your project's structure, could you point to me where you do that in your code ?
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 04, 2015 07:44AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,616 |
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arthurwolf
I'm annoyed at people talking authoritively about the Smoothie system when the seem to have not studied it much.
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arthurwolf
If you never heard somebody tell you that having to open the arduino IDE to affect changes is something offputting about Reprap, you are completely disconnected from what typical newcomers experience.
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arthurwolf
Smoothie generates a smoother step pulse, does more precise acceleration, does longer look-ahead, has much better delta support, fixes issues that 8-bit firmwares do not or can not fix.
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dc42
AFAIK it's also the only firmware that calculates the step pulse times on a delta properly. All other firmwares that I know of (including Marlin and Smoothie) chop up moves into shoit segments
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dc42
The only remaining reason to use 8-bit electronics and firmware is if you are working on a very tight budget. But 32-bit processors are inexpensive now, so the price of 32-bit boards should fall.
Generation 7 Electronics | Teacup Firmware | RepRap DIY |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 04, 2015 07:57AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 351 |
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Traumflug
Smoother than what? More precise that what? Better than what? And again, all these are properties of firmware, open to any board.Quote
arthurwolf
Smoothie generates a smoother step pulse, does more precise acceleration, does longer look-ahead, has much better delta support, fixes issues that 8-bit firmwares do not or can not fix.
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 04, 2015 08:15AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 04, 2015 08:25AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 351 |
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dc42
The 32-bit boards have other advantages too, such as software control of motor currents, built-in web interface, and high speed uploading to the SD card (via HTTP or FTP in the case of the Duet). You could do digital control of motor currents with an 8-bit solution,
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dc42
but not the other two.
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 04, 2015 12:09PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 126 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 05, 2015 07:13AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,616 |
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arthurwolfQuote
Traumflug
Smoother than what? More precise that what? Better than what? And again, all these are properties of firmware, open to any board.
It was implied : "than 8-bit boards running the current 8-bit firmwares".
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arthurwolf
I absolutely do not see how those are open to any board.
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arthurwolf
I can't help but feel you are being dishonest in some way.
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JustAnotherOne
@Traumflug: You should really try the 32 bits
Generation 7 Electronics | Teacup Firmware | RepRap DIY |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 05, 2015 08:08AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 351 |
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Traumflug
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arthurwolfQuote
Traumflug
Smoother than what? More precise that what? Better than what? And again, all these are properties of firmware, open to any board.
It was implied : "than 8-bit boards running the current 8-bit firmwares".
In this case, all of these claims are wrong.
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Traumflug
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arthurwolf
I absolutely do not see how those are open to any board.
I'm very sorry for your shortsightedness. CPUs are digital units and all of the produce the exact same results, no matter how many bits in parallel they process. They just vary in speed. Just like 32-bit desktop CPUs produce the exactly same result as 64-bit counterparts, just a bit slower.
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Traumflug
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arthurwolf
I can't help but feel you are being dishonest in some way.
Each time your argumentations are exhausted you start attacking me personally and accuse me to lie. Thank you for that, it just confirms my logical descriptions are right.
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Traumflug
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JustAnotherOne
@Traumflug: You should really try the 32 bits
Guess what: I did already. And it works exactly the same way as on an 8-bit counterpart.
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Traumflug
It's all a matter of a proper firmware. If Marlin and Repetier declare shaky movements and step losses as state of the art and people cheer on that, I can't help. This is a solvable problem. Not solvable by faster CPUs, but solvable with more carefully written firmwares. A fast CPU just makes it a bit simpler to do so.
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Traumflug
Perhaps some of you remember earlier high-end CNC machinery. Many of them had a 3 MHz 8-bit CPU and they worked just fine.
.
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 05, 2015 10:15AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,616 |
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arthurwolf
So are you saying a firmware designed for an 8-bit mcu, running on an 8-bit/16-20mhz mcu, will be as smooth in it's step generation and as precise in it's motion planning and execution, as a firmware designed for a 32-bit mcu, running on a 32-bit/120mhz mcu ?
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arthurwolf
I'm not even sure I understand what you are saying.
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arthurwolfQuote
Traumflug
Perhaps some of you remember earlier high-end CNC machinery. Many of them had a 3 MHz 8-bit CPU and they worked just fine.
.
And that's exactly the reason why high-end CNC machinery today still uses 3Mhz 8-bit MCUs of course ...
Generation 7 Electronics | Teacup Firmware | RepRap DIY |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 05, 2015 10:20AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 1,159 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 05, 2015 10:21AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 351 |
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 05, 2015 11:55AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 126 |
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Traumflug
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arthurwolf
So are you saying a firmware designed for an 8-bit mcu, running on an 8-bit/16-20mhz mcu, will be as smooth in it's step generation and as precise in it's motion planning and execution, as a firmware designed for a 32-bit mcu, running on a 32-bit/120mhz mcu ?
Exactly. And if your firmware runs on 32-bit only, it has a flaw.
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Traumflug
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arthurwolf
I'm not even sure I understand what you are saying.
Obviously. If you had said 32-bit controllers are faster and allow higher printing speeds on more complex setups, I had even agreed.
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 05, 2015 12:10PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 351 |
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JustAnotherOne
So here we have it. You both agree that faster clocked chips can achieve higher step rates and support more complex setups.Quote
Traumflug
Obviously. If you had said 32-bit controllers are faster and allow higher printing speeds on more complex setups, I had even agreed.
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Traumflug
But you don't and use wobbly words like "smoother" or "better" instead.
Re: SmoothieWare Compatible Mainboards February 05, 2015 01:03PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
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arthurwolf
Just an example : Smoothie does not just do "faster" step generation, it does "better" step generation : the step interrupt is run at a constant 100khz and the other axes follow that, resulting into smoother ( smoother here means "less rough", or if you prefer "closer to an ideal theoretical step pulse", is that still too "wobbly" of a term ??? ) step generation compared to the classical bresenham step generation ( where slower axes follow the faster axis ).
And that's just one thing amongst many others. Combined, all these result in faster, quieter, more "correct" ( again as in : closer to ideal ) printing with less artifacts.