New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China

Thank you Flyway97, i appreciate you posting the fix.
I've ordered the part.

Could we disconnect the faulty DCDC-regulator and use an external UBEC circuit instead? Or the 5V line from a PC-PSU?
-Olaf

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Viper97

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Boxcar

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flyway97
1. take off component D5 and F3;
2. Connect R-78E-5.0's 3 pins to the 3 solder joints as shown in the picture,
(pin1 to label 1, pin2 to label 2, pin3 to label 3),then it can work well.

Thank you! My MKS SBASE should show up in a week or so. I ordered a few R-78E5.0-1.0 from Digikey so I'll report back once I have everything setup.

Post a how to for us old timers with feeble eye sight. Please?

This will be my first time with smoothieware and my first time configuring a printer from scratch so it may take a while. I also want to test the board before I alter. I'll gladly share what I find out and I'll get some closeups for you.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2015 12:53AM by Boxcar.

to o_lampe : Maybe this method can work, but we don't test it.

Thanks for posting a potential fix, I'm not going to modify my board because I bought an official smoothieboard which works perfectly and I'll just sell this one in like-new condition. Good luck with your future revisions! I really liked the design and price right up to the point where it didn't work.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2015 04:51PM by CapnBry.

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flyway97
1. take off component D5 and F3;
2. Connect R-78E-5.0's 3 pins to the 3 solder joints as shown in the picture,
(pin1 to label 1, pin2 to label 2, pin3 to label 3),then it can work well.

Damn. I just got my SBase and now I read this.

So you would have to use wires to attach the spots with the legs of the R-78E5.0-1.0 right?

I only found this for like 11€ at a consumer electronics shop (conrad).

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Dejay
Damn. I just got my SBase and now I read this.

So you would have to use wires to attach the spots with the legs of the R-78E5.0-1.0 right?

I only found this for like 11€ at a consumer electronics shop (conrad).

We have it for 5€ here : [robotseed.com]

I believe you can find it for even less at digikey and friends.

Thanks arthurwolf! From the description - does this mean that if I use the SBoard on USB then I won't get the sampling error problem? I guess I should try myself. But this might explain why @innkeeper didn't experience problems with the temperature reads? Maybe because he unlike CapnBry used it powered over USB?

BTW is the 0.5A version enough? It's only for the chip itself right? That one is much cheaper at my crappy component store.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2015 06:58AM by Dejay.

Very good idea, Dejay!
If feeding the board by USB power would disable the onboard DCDC converter, then it wouldn´t be required to desolder parts on the board.
You could buy a USB-charger wallwart and plug it in the USB-port and be done, right?
-Olaf

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2015 03:03AM by o_lampe.

Hey that's an even better idea. If it works

I was powering it over USB as well with a Raspberry Pi which was powered from a 5V switching regulator hooked to the 12V supply, so theoretically this was already the case. As stated in my initial review, the power usage does drop when you plug it into USB so that's definitely doing something, but it doesn't drop off completely. I'm not sure if that's just quiescent draw of the regulator.

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Power draw is 100mA at 12V, down to 70mA at 24V without the USB plugged in. Power drops to 47mA at 12V, 40mA at 24V with the USB plugged in.

Before I sell it I might try running it on USB power from something else to see if it makes a difference. I can't remember if I ever tried it without it being hooked to USB (i.e. running off the onboard regulator)

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CapnBry
I was powering it over USB as well with a Raspberry Pi which was powered from a 5V switching regulator hooked to the 12V supply, so theoretically this was already the case. As stated in my initial review, the power usage does drop when you plug it into USB so that's definitely doing something, but it doesn't drop off completely. I'm not sure if that's just quiescent draw of the regulator.

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Power draw is 100mA at 12V, down to 70mA at 24V without the USB plugged in. Power drops to 47mA at 12V, 40mA at 24V with the USB plugged in.

Before I sell it I might try running it on USB power from something else to see if it makes a difference. I can't remember if I ever tried it without it being hooked to USB (i.e. running off the onboard regulator)

Did you ever get around to testing if powering the board via USB solves the problem CapnBry? If not I'll wait for the announced 1.1 board update.

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tarjeik
Did you ever get around to testing if powering the board via USB solves the problem CapnBry? If not I'll wait for the announced 1.1 board update.

Yeah same story. No matter where the power comes from (USB or 12V input) the temperature bounces around by a few degrees at the higher temps (220C) which makes controlling the hotend at temperature impossible.

Hi all,
I'm intrested in 3d printer and I'm waiting for the complete kit PRUSA i3.
My controller is MKS BASE V1.1, now my concern is if this board can drive the two stepper motors for Z axis.
Can someone confirm ?

Furthemore, what is the difference with the "Mks Gen-2Z v1.1" ?

Thanks
Carlo

I think there is a big difference between the Sbase and the Base. The SBASE is smoothieware compatible and has a different (faster) micro controller. So do you have the sbase or the base?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2015 05:57PM by Dejay.

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Dejay
I think there is a big difference between the Sbase and the Base. The SBASE is smoothieware compatible and has a different (faster) micro controller. So do you have the sbase or the base?

Hi Dejay,
mmmhhhhh......
Just now I've seen... here are speaking about Sbase and not Base.
Yes I've the Base (without S), my question is about difference with MKS BASE V1.1and the "MKS Gen-2Z v1.1" ?

May be I'm O.T.

Thanks

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2015 02:54AM by carlonb.

flyway97 will the next version of the sbase board also have pause / play switch and led connections?
this seems to be missing from the 1.0 board

I'm in for the next board revision for my delta build - when can we expect to see this up for sale?

hi, MKS SBASEV1.1 have for sale.

respect to MKS SBaseV1.0 :

1. fix Temperature problem.

2.add Thermocouple Pins( can't be used with 12864lcd together).

3.add some pins P1.22 P1.23 P2.12 P2.11 P4.28 for customization use.

4.add endstop power select function,can select 3.3V or 5V




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2015 05:28AM by flyway97.

Looks good, although it seems like there is only 1 seller on aliexpress who claims to have a v1.1 board (and that's only in the title, the description and photos still show a 1.0 board so we can't be sure of what we're actually buying) and that's at a huge 50% markup compared to other sellers.

Also what's with the heatsinks on the 8825's? Shouldn't they be on the (possibly too small) solder vias on the other side?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2015 06:43PM by rocketwiz.

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rocketwiz
Also what's with the heatsinks on the 8825's? Shouldn't they be on the (possibly too small) solder vias on the other side?

Yes, putting the heatsinks on the top is definitely very bad design, from somebody with no experience in this, who has not even cared to read the datasheet for the drivers ( or understands how they work ). This is the same attitude that caused the temperature problem.

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arthurwolf

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rocketwiz
Also what's with the heatsinks on the 8825's? Shouldn't they be on the (possibly too small) solder vias on the other side?

Yes, putting the heatsinks on the top is definitely very bad design, from somebody with no experience in this, who has not even cared to read the datasheet for the drivers ( or understands how they work ). This is the same attitude that caused the temperature problem.

arthurwolf : you are right,the heatsinks on the bottom of 8825 is better. But when the chip's temperature too high(up 70), the temperatue on the two side almost the same. Because on the bottom is harmful to Installation board , a big heatsinks on the top is useful.

Before we do this, we have read datasheet and get suggest from TI's engineer(we use drv8825 more than 10k/month not only on 3d board). We have tested, when use the heatsinks the temperature can low almost 5-8 degree than not use it on the same condition. If use fan can get better effect.

In fact we have careful deal with heat dissipation problem. on the pcb design the surface layer and the middle layer of the copper(GND),The area of the copper(GND) is as large as the plate.

It's nice to see a new fixed version but any news on the fix? Has anyone done this yet?

I'm hesitant to order a replacement part for >15€ including shipping. Or does the suggested solution from o_lampe work? I mean why do we need a 5V regulator if we power over USB?

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CapnBry

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tarjeik
Did you ever get around to testing if powering the board via USB solves the problem CapnBry? If not I'll wait for the announced 1.1 board update.

Yeah same story. No matter where the power comes from (USB or 12V input) the temperature bounces around by a few degrees at the higher temps (220C) which makes controlling the hotend at temperature impossible.

The onboard regulator wasn´t the only reason for the temp-reading error, it seems.
Connecting analog and digital ground of the processor can cause this problem, too. Hopefully they have made it better this time.

So, where is the link for guinea pig buyers to be the first to report here?
-Olaf
PS: You can still use heatsinks on the bottom, if you have doubts about the top layer heatsink. Heck, maybe you can even switch the heatsink from top to bottom?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2015 04:07AM by o_lampe.

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flyway97

arthurwolf : you are right,the heatsinks on the bottom of 8825 is better. But when the chip's temperature too high(up 70), the temperatue on the two side almost the same.

That does not matter one bit : it's still very bad design to cool from the top. The bottom is directly connected to the chip, while the top is insulated by the enclosing plastic, so the effeciency of the cooling is absolutely not going to be the same. Some users have even reported drivers unsoldering themselves ( "popping off" ) when cooling from the top.

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flyway97
Because on the bottom is harmful to Installation board ,

That's the whole point : you shouldn't need heatsinks at all. Those chips are designed to be cooled by the PCB itself. If your board can't do that, you did not follow the datasheet and it's bad design.

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flyway97
a big heatsinks on the top is useful.

But is *also* harmful, very bad driver cooling design, *and* a symptom of overall bad design.

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flyway97
Before we do this, we have read datasheet and get suggest from TI's engineer(we use drv8825 more than 10k/month not only on 3d board). We have tested, when use the heatsinks the temperature can low almost 5-8 degree than not use it on the same condition. If use fan can get better effect.

In fact we have careful deal with heat dissipation problem. on the pcb design the surface layer and the middle layer of the copper(GND),The area of the copper(GND) is as large as the plate.

If that had been done properly, you wouldn't need heatsinks at all, is my point.

I've ordered a 1.1 board from the MakerBase store on Ali. The listing still says V1.0, but I've been promised that they'll ship the V1.1 board (it shipped yesterday after having been out of stock for a while).

MKS SBASE on AliExpress

@arthurwolf,
I´m wondering if your negative assumptions about "overall bad design" are totally unbiased?

smoothieboard wiki

This is bad Kung Fu
-Olaf

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o_lampe
@arthurwolf,
I´m wondering if your negative assumptions about "overall bad design" are totally unbiased?

smoothieboard wiki

This is bad Kung Fu
-Olaf

Arthur is just protecting his child in every topic related to smoothieboard

For example: [groups.google.com]

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o_lampe
@arthurwolf,
I´m wondering if your negative assumptions about "overall bad design" are totally unbiased?

These are not assumptions, they are facts. Facts are by definition unbiased ( even if provided by a biased person ).

Fact : They did not properly use the analog ground for their thermistor inputs. This is bad design.
Fact : They did not design the PBC planes to heatsink the full heat of the drivers. This is bad design.
Fact : They put heatsinks on top of the drivers ( essentially heatsinking plastic that was not designed for this ), when they are *designed* for bottom cooling. This is bad design ( and it can even damage the board ).

Go ask about these facts to any other reprap-type board designer. You don't have to trust me on this. Or even go read the datasheets.

It doesn't matter who I am, these facts are true no matter who states them.

Additionally, I have on many occasions now, publicly said that the SBASE board is a reasonably good board *overall*, for it's price. I have other problems with it ( one of them being it's designed by people with bellow-average experience in building reprap-type boards, which is what I was trying to show here ), but still I recognize it's merits.


Now when you say I'm biased, I do not like that very much. I try very hard not to be biased. I was a part of this community long before I started the Smoothieboard project, and I personally believe I still have the right to state facts ( and even opinion, if I say it's only opinion ).

If the idea here is I'm the big bad Smoothieboard guy, bashing the competing and totally equivalent poor little SBASE, I have a big problem with that narrative.

Smoothieboard is a community-driven, fully Open-Source and Open-Hardware project, born inside the Reprap community. It's developped by the community, with the community, for the community. There is a strong effort on documentation ( the most complete of any board/ecosystem around in the Reprap world ). The few people that actually sell Smoothieboard ( which I am of ), worked on the project for free long before starting selling boards, and mostly only get out of it enough to keep contributing to the project more than they would if they only had free time to do it.

SBASE, is a board, designed by taking benefit from the years of free ( Open-Source ) work given by the community, yet it is closed-source, so the community can not study/reproduce/modify it. That is essentially stealing from the community ( in my opinion ). They use the firmware ( without which their board would not work or exist ), yet do not contribute in any way to it. They do not contribute to the development of the project, to any kind of research, they do not help on the community forums/mailing lists/irc ( yet the community helps many of their users for free, because they will not provide as good support as the community does ), and on top of that, they write their documentation by copy/pasting huge chuncks of the smoothie documentation, without giving any attribution, instead of contributing to the smoothie documentation and making it better.
This kind of attitude not only does not help the community, it actually hurts the community ( both Smoothie, and Reprap overall ). Many of the reprap devs have been very saddened by this sort of attitude over the past years, and SBASE is only one of the latest examples of it.

I'm sorry, but this situation should at least give me the right to state *facts*, and maybe even to state my opinion.

If you think that's biased, I'm sorry, I really don't.

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roboprint
Arthur is just protecting his child in every topic related to smoothieboard
For example: [groups.google.com]

I protect Smoothie when it is under agression. And only when that agression/attack is unfair/unfounded.

Which is *most definitely* the case in that exchange you linked to, and previous ones with Ryan.

I welcome anybody to read that topic, and see how unfair/dishonest his arguments are ( you'll probably have to go read some of the previous exchanges with him to understand some of the things said ).

If somebody has some fair and justified criticism of Smoothie, it is *very* welcome. It's by listening to that sort of thing that the project becomes better. We have been listening, and we will keep on doing so.

I am even willing to recognize that I *might* sometimes think criticism of Smoothie is unfair/unfounded, to later realize it was actually fair criticism ( I can remember one example of this ). If/when that happens, I would recognize it is fair criticism ( once sufficent arguments have been advanced to show it is fair ), and work towards making Smoothie better, so that the criticism is no longer valid.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2015 12:05PM by arthurwolf.

@arthurwolf

30 years ago, I was one of the pioneers of "brushlessDC-outrunners" in RC-world. Many of my improvements and "inventions" you can now find in Chinese products. I don´t see any money from them, neither does the "LRK"-trio who introduced the BLDC motor to the public. ( we are talking about billions $$$ here...)

So, I´m walking in your shoes for over 20 years now, but I never started fighting against windmills.
Instead I´m proud to say that my humble work has helped to start a revolution we all benefit from.

When I asked if your opinion is totally unbiased, I just wanted to point out your special relation to smoothieboard to other readers to take the edge of your comments.

Regarding the average skilled MakerBase guys: No one is a born expert. As long as you are willing to learn and improve your work, it´s OK to make mistakes.
-Olaf