Which controller?

Hi all,

I currently have a Prusa i3 I bought ready built and have built my own 3DR.

I am planning building a new Cartesian printer using a 300mm square, 24V bed, lead screws for the Z axis, 20x20 extrusion for the frame and am considering what electronics to use.

I want to go 32bit and would ideally like a display and web based interface. So far I have thought about Smoothieboard and Duet and am wondering what peoples thoughts are with regards to these two and what other boards I should consider. Any reviews / resources would be appreciated.

Thanks all

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2015 08:11AM by zitman.

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My blog: 3DR build and more . . . .

I like the smoothieboard in my printer (see link in my sig, below). I haven't tried the web interface- I print exclusively from SD cards. I use volumetric extrusion when I slice so the same gcode file can be used for different filament diameters. The LCD/encoder allows entry of the exact filament diameter at print time. I have printed from the on-board uSD card and from the LCD module's SD card slot and both work equally reliably.

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Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

Hi,

You have lots of different options and possible configuration:

1) An duet or smoothieboard will give you "out the box" an web interface, but you need to connect the boards to an router with an lan cable. I have read the duet web interface is better and more complete, but i not sure... The cheap solution is going with duet 0.6 or an smoothieboard clone.

2) Use an raspberry or other low consume power linux board that will connect to the board by usb or lan cable, the raspberry will provide the web interface. You can connect the raspberry to the router by wifi or cable.
There are several good program for raspberry that will provide great web interface, octoprint, astroprint, repetier server, etc.. The raspberry option allow you to add an web cam to check online the printing process.
With the raspberry you can use radds board + arduino due , it will work with the repetier firmware and the new reprap firmware (duet firmware). This is the configuration i have at the moment.

3) Use radds + udoo. Almost the same was 2, the udoo board is an arduino due and an raspberry at the same time. This configuration will be very expensive...

4) buy an cheap 7´´ or 8'' windows tablet and any 32 bit board, connect any 32 board by usb or bluetooth. Any 32 board will work and the tablet will replace the lcd of the board. With this solution you can do anything, like sliding, download stl files, web server, ftp, etc... You have to take in consideration that most 8´´ tablets do not allow usb and be powered at the same time. You can buy an otg Y cable or an tablet that not use the usb port to be powered.
I defend this solution because is an complete and cheap one, the configuration i thinking to go in the future:
tablet 8
OTG Y cable
Radds 1.5 board + arduino due clone

5) use an cheap android tablet and use the program gcodeprintr. the program is paid and not compatible with all boards. So far is the only solution for android. Is a valid solution if you have an old android phone, you can use an usb otg Y cable to connect and power the phone at the same time.

Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2015 09:11AM by filipeCampos.

I have both the DUET and MKS SBASE smoothieboard clone. My SBASE is the 1.0 version that has faulty temperature control that I have not yet reworked... if you go this route make sure to get v1.1 or v1.2 of the board or it will have the same problem. I currently use the DUET as my daily driver. I have a custom design CoreXY printer.

Now, a comparison (Please note that prices are for USA east coast delivery in late 2015, and consumption taxes, import taxes and shipping costs in places like Europe may make the cost decisions much different):

Duet costs $61.22 shipped to USA (me) by replikeo.com. It is complete in that if you connect it to a network via cable, you get a WONDERFUL web interface that allows full control of the printer, even from your smartphone, without any additional purchases like displays, etc. You still have to design parts and slice using a regular computer, but once you load the Gcode files onto the Duet you can kick off repeat prints from any web connected device. If you have a Delta printer, The duet has the very best math calculations for movement, and has the best auto leveling of any existing controller both courtesy of dc42/David who is very active on reprap.org. For Delta printers, this is really the only choice currently, in my opinion. Also, dc42/David seems to help EVERYONE here with any problem they have relating to DUET, and usually within a few hours. The best support I have seen for a product so inexpensive. Seriously, the support level he provides is ridiculous and way above what we deserve. I think that this support level makes the choice of DUET the best one for most people. If dc42/David ever quits his essentially free support or scales back (who could blame him), the big support advantage of this board will be significantly diminished. PanelDue is an available touchscreen that dc42 supports and also sells, but it costs a pretty penny at $115 shipped to USA.

MKS SBASE smoothieboard clone $50 with free shipping to USA from aliexpress.com : I think this is the most inexpensive board that exists for 32 bit control boards. Software is well supported by smoothie and users on other forums, but a little less well than what dc42/David does for Duet. At $50, you need to connect via USB to a computer if you want to use this controller without spending more on other parts like displays or a Raspberry Pi to run OctoPrint. This board also has an ethernet connector, but I do not think there is a good web interface like with the DUET that has been designed into the firmware and is therefore included free. Someday they may have this interface, since it should just be a case of software upgrades.

In Summary:

Cheapest choice is MKS SBASE at $50, but you have to connect a computer via USB to use it at this price.

Next best price is $61.22 for the DUET solution without a display. The extra $11.22 is worth it in my opinion to get that wonderful web interface and extra dc42 support. With this choice, the advantage of having an added display is pretty small... Your phone or tablet becomes a fantastic portable touchscreen. If you have a Delta, this is really the only way you should go because of superior Duet firmware math and bed leveling for Deltas. I think that this is BY FAR the best choice for ease of use and for beginners.

If you want to use OctoPrint, Both boards are compatible, but it appears that there is more support for smoothie/Octoprint combos, so I think the Cheaper SBASE has a slight advantage here (except if you have a Delta printer). I bought my Raspberry Pi 2 board for $21 (edit: current best price is $29.99 at MicroCenter for east coast USA buyers), so for an extra 10 dollars($20) over the Duet solution, you can have Octoprint.

Current total price to New York City is 49.99 for SBASE+32.50 Raspi 2b with sales tax=$82.49 for running Octoprint on the best Raspi which is really inexpensive. I think Octoprint is a wonderful choice for expandability: wifi printing via dongle? check, Wireless mouse and keyboard (dongle)? check, HDMI standard big screen? check Slicer on board? check, Webcam monitoring? check. Cheap touchscreen solutions? check..... The cheap Octoprint and raspberry pi combo really packs some open source options - but they take more work to implement than the simple DUET solution.

Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2015 04:00PM by patrickrio.

Quote
patrickrio
Next best price is $61.22 for the DUET solution without a display. The extra $11.22 is worth it in my opinion to get that wonderful web interface and extra dc42 support. With this choice, the advantage of having an added display is pretty small... Your phone or tablet becomes a fantastic portable touchscreen. If you have a Delta, this is really the only way you should go.

x2, i think duet is better and an very big plus for dc42 support.
Do not forget you need to have the printer close of the router or buy an cheap one to connect the duet to your wifi network.

Quote
patrickrio
If you want to use OctoPrint, Both boards are compatible, but it appears that there is more support for smoothie/Octoprint combos, so I think the Cheaper SBASE has a slight advantage here.

If you live in europe like me and will use octoprint, then radds + arduino is cheaper.
Radds + repetier firmware + octoprint is a very good and stable combination.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2015 10:13AM by filipeCampos.

Raspberry 35€
Cheap Arduino Due 16€
RADDS 50€
4 to 5 Drivers 30€ (RAPS128 60€)

Cheapest?

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Triffid Hunter's Calibration Guide

--> X <-- Drill for new Monitor

Most important Gcode.

Raspberry 35€
Cheap Arduino Due 12€
RADDS 50€
4 x 1/32 stepper - 5€
total : 102

duet 0.6 - 90 to 110€
total: 100

Duet are not send inside europe and you need the pay more 30%-35% of is cost, and it can take more 2 month´s to receive it (in Portugal some times takes 3 months).
Is almost the same price, but you need to wait a long time if you go duet, the raspberry will provide better web interface and It probably can reuse the steppers is was on is old board.

For me radds is better but only if you live in europe.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2015 01:09PM by filipeCampos.

Quote
filipeCampos
Raspberry 35€
Cheap Arduino Due 12€
RADDS 50€
4 x 1/32 stepper - 5€
total : 102

Well, when you start to test all prices... the actual RADDS price ist 60€...
Cheapest Arduino Due found on ebay for germany not send from china 21€.
Also i can't find 4x 1/32 driver for 5€...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2015 01:54PM by Wurstnase.

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Triffid Hunter's Calibration Guide

--> X <-- Drill for new Monitor

Most important Gcode.

I have just a few points to add to the above:

- If you want to add the colour touch screen control panel to a Duet, you can either buy the complete kit of display controller + 4.3 inch touch LCD panel + cable from T3P3, or you can buy just the controller from me and add a compatible 4.3 or 5 inch touch LCD panel. I sell the controller + connectors at GBP39.77/47.99/40.86 shipped to UK/EU/Rest of World. Add GBP4.96/5.03/4.19 if you want a ready-made cable instead of connectors.

- The Replikeo Duet 0.6 is very competitively priced at $50, however there have been some instances reported of faulty boards being received, and having to wait for a replacement. I don't know whether the Smoothie clones have comparable quality issues or not.

- If you want to drive multiple extruders, there are two different expansion boards available for the Duet. If you just want dual extrusion support, the Duet 0.8.5 costs less than a Duet 0.6 + expansion board. The Duet 0.8.5 is made in the UK.

- I have seen two posts recently from different users saying that an RPi running Octoprint was not able to feed data to the printer fast enough to maintain print quality. I think both of them had webcams attached to the RPi as well and were using RAMPS electronics. If Octoprint has the option to turn off application-level flow control (which is needed by the old 8-bit boards without a native USB port), then maintaining a high enough data rate should not be a problem when using it with a Smoothie or clone (or a Duet).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2015 01:52PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

See! here is dc42 providing that awesome support again. Beginners or those new should take notice... He really likes Duet, but he is giving very honest information about other products too and encourages you to choose what is best for you. What he won't tell you (because he is a modest, honest and proper Englishman..) is that HE and his software work and support are the reason Duet is a best choice for most people, especially beginners, interested in 32bit Control boards. Duet might actually be second to smoothie clones without him.

For those of you who want more capabilities though, Rasberry Pi solutions really are in a class by themselves for supporting lots of Open Source innovation. Be ready to put in a lot more effort though!!!

Further info I have seen in my research for RasPi solutions:

You should buy the new RasPi 2 version B and not the earlier RasPi boards. The new one is MUCH faster for not much more money. Current Octoprint really benefits from the extra speed, especially if you add more capabilities. The various forum experts say the 2B version helps a lot with the lag issues that dc42 mentioned. In any case, if you do have lag problems, you can just set up Octoprint to load the Gcode files to the controller board SD card and operate while printing with minimal Octoprint oversight, so your printer will work just like it would with normal SD card printing. If you are careful, Octoprint can slice, view, upload to a regular Ramps SD card and monitor the print better than the normal Ramps LCD...without disrupting the print.

As an Example: Our local Hackerspace set up an old Ramps PrintrBot simple with Octoprint on an original RasPi as a wireless print server and it works great. It prints an average of 6-12 hours a day without a hickup. I still think that a 32bit board with new RasPi 2b is a better way to go though, especially for future proofing.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2015 04:06PM by patrickrio.

Well, firstly thanks for all the input.

I was unaware of the RADDS approach so that is something more to consider.

Currently both my printers use RAMPS, the Prusa works well but the Deltla struggles a bit to be honest although I am currently using the large LCD which, I gather, doesn't help. I have a 20 by 4 display but need to print a mounting bracket for it first.

I have RasPi's on both but the one on the Prusa suddenly started printing 10mm above the bed for some reason as yet undetermined. The one on the Delta has, also suddenly, stopped talking to the RAMPS board. But in fairness before they started playing up they were great.

The feedback in this thread has been extremely useful. I am thinking in terms of primarily Duet with Smoothiebaoad second. I am going to research RADDS more though before I make any decision. I like the look of the PanelDue. Ultimately I want to go to dual extruder and auto bed levelling, I know I can run dual extruders on the duet and assume it will support auto bed levelling.

What firmware is best for the Duet, bearing the PanelDue in mind? I am currently looking at the 0.8.5 from T3P3 as I am in the UK.

Again thanks for the input and if there is anything else I should be considering please let me know

Z

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My blog: 3DR build and more . . . .

The only firmware that runs on the Duet is RepRapFirmware. It has the best delta support of any firmware - and I'm not just saying that because I wrote the delta support in it. No other firmware supports segmentation-free delta movement or fast delta auto calibration.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Thanks DC42,

I am planning on using this controller on a Cartesian printer but given what you say I might end up buying two boards and replace the one in my delta as well. Expensive hobby this 3d printing lark

Z

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My blog: 3DR build and more . . . .

One other quick thought, how do I stand with 24V on the duet? as that is what I am planning to use on the new printer.

Cheers

Z

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My blog: 3DR build and more . . . .

I use 24v with the Duet. Works fantastic.

The Duet is rated at 35V absolute maximum, but I regard 30V as the sensible upper limit. I run the Duet in my delta at 24V because it helps get good speeds out of 0.9deg/step motors.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].