Milling and laser engraving on one machine
Posted by o_lampe
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine May 16, 2017 03:19AM |
The dust/ashes was actually the reason, why I didn't want to put the laser on my printer.
The mill and the laser can share a vacuum cleaner now. But I agree, the laser could benefit from a protection-cap for the lens.
If only I had a 3D printer to make one..... oh wait
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2017 03:21AM by o_lampe.
The mill and the laser can share a vacuum cleaner now. But I agree, the laser could benefit from a protection-cap for the lens.
If only I had a 3D printer to make one..... oh wait
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2017 03:21AM by o_lampe.
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine May 17, 2017 01:15PM |
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine May 18, 2017 01:43PM |
FWIW
Shapeoko 2 having 4 two bearing V rollers with eccentric bolt mounts on each Y carriage
and 8 two bearing V rollers on Y axis carriage
-- with the wide spacing of rollers
there is no slop in the movement
I have routed hardwood, Aluminum with no problem
a 1 m makerslide can be had for $21
Z tilt (Y-Z plane) twist of the gantry, Spindle and cutters most problematic.
but shapeoko 3 and X carve with beefer gantry may have solved that.
DD has convinced me that linear rails are great -- but are a art of their own
Shapeoko 2 having 4 two bearing V rollers with eccentric bolt mounts on each Y carriage
and 8 two bearing V rollers on Y axis carriage
-- with the wide spacing of rollers
there is no slop in the movement
I have routed hardwood, Aluminum with no problem
a 1 m makerslide can be had for $21
Z tilt (Y-Z plane) twist of the gantry, Spindle and cutters most problematic.
but shapeoko 3 and X carve with beefer gantry may have solved that.
DD has convinced me that linear rails are great -- but are a art of their own
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine May 20, 2017 02:58AM |
I was going to go makerslide route but £100 ($130) delivered by the time you factor in the extras needed for makeslide +P&P to get the same sized profile sourced in UK would cost 80% of what the hiwin's cost so it was a no brainer.
[www.ebay.co.uk]
at this price for 2 1500mm Hiwin rails with 4 blocks makerslide became a lot less attractive, especially as it was EU shipped and I had them within 3 days no tax. £100 is crazy cheap even on alixpress expect to pay at least double that. They are lovely as well!
My machine will cost me ~2/3 what an xcarve is in the UK with much better slides, much better extrusion (Using heavy duty 4.5cm*9cm T slot profile), 3 proper 1605 ballscrew drives on 2 axis and 20mm ballscrew on the z, nema 23's all round, a 2,2kw water cooled spindle with vfd and a bigger work area. I've found buy from China, split your orders up to reduce the chance of import tax and you're onto a winner
Back to the original question though it's easy to add a laser diode (Up to 5w) but really you need a lot more power than that if you intend to be processing anything other than balsa wood or light engraving.
For the hassle I'd just buy a cheap chinese 40w laser cutter and have 2 machines but a decent router will do 99% of what a laser cutter will do for home use so a better choice I think.
If you're struggling to find slides at a good price, alixpress and ebay are your friend.
You definitely want 2 slides per axis even if you were using 25mm Hiwin's at 12mm it will be essential.
Personally if I were you I'd sell the slides you have and get bigger ones.
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2017 07:15AM by Desertboy.
[www.ebay.co.uk]
at this price for 2 1500mm Hiwin rails with 4 blocks makerslide became a lot less attractive, especially as it was EU shipped and I had them within 3 days no tax. £100 is crazy cheap even on alixpress expect to pay at least double that. They are lovely as well!
My machine will cost me ~2/3 what an xcarve is in the UK with much better slides, much better extrusion (Using heavy duty 4.5cm*9cm T slot profile), 3 proper 1605 ballscrew drives on 2 axis and 20mm ballscrew on the z, nema 23's all round, a 2,2kw water cooled spindle with vfd and a bigger work area. I've found buy from China, split your orders up to reduce the chance of import tax and you're onto a winner
Back to the original question though it's easy to add a laser diode (Up to 5w) but really you need a lot more power than that if you intend to be processing anything other than balsa wood or light engraving.
For the hassle I'd just buy a cheap chinese 40w laser cutter and have 2 machines but a decent router will do 99% of what a laser cutter will do for home use so a better choice I think.
If you're struggling to find slides at a good price, alixpress and ebay are your friend.
You definitely want 2 slides per axis even if you were using 25mm Hiwin's at 12mm it will be essential.
Personally if I were you I'd sell the slides you have and get bigger ones.
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2017 07:15AM by Desertboy.
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine May 20, 2017 11:29AM |
Perhaps this should be titled "very expensive British build"
Confounds me how a $21 USD item becomes $130 (100 pound) in UK
They make sure you don't use anything outside the island?
but
The proper UK linear slides should thrill the Queen?
£99.00 with the £500.00 Economy Delivery (used Rolls Royce)
Where is the linear rail production factory located in the UK?
Alternative V rail
[vgrooverail.com]
Confounds me how a $21 USD item becomes $130 (100 pound) in UK
They make sure you don't use anything outside the island?
but
The proper UK linear slides should thrill the Queen?
£99.00 with the £500.00 Economy Delivery (used Rolls Royce)
Where is the linear rail production factory located in the UK?
Alternative V rail
[vgrooverail.com]
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine May 20, 2017 02:37PM |
Quote
cozmicray
Perhaps this should be titled "very expensive British build"
Confounds me how a $21 USD item becomes $130 (100 pound) in UK
They make sure you don't use anything outside the island?
but
The proper UK linear slides should thrill the Queen?
£99.00 with the £500.00 Economy Delivery (used Rolls Royce)
Where is the linear rail production factory located in the UK?
Alternative V rail
[vgrooverail.com]
[amberspyglass.co.uk]
You can't buy 1.5m makerslide here so you would have to buy 2m and cut it down so that's £48 as I have 2 1.5m (5ft) rails before we add any carriages, bearings, etc.
Add delivery and we get to ~£70
those slides were Chinese obviously but came from Germany (Was on delivery invoice) and delivery was free to the UK and because they came from Germany no import tax.
So £30 extra for hiwin vs makerslide as I said decision was easy
We always get screwed in the UK you should see how much we pay for fuel and electricity lol.
If $21 for 1m makerslide with all the bearings and mounting plate in US you are getting a great deal.
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2017 02:55PM by Desertboy.
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine May 20, 2017 05:18PM |
Your build is the two extremes in design
Laser -- no cutting forces on mechanics Z axis not necessary
mill --- extreme forces on the mechanics Z axis important
My plan is to build a frame with a dual X-gantry:
How will you "switch" gantries?
Laser -- no cutting forces on mechanics Z axis not necessary
mill --- extreme forces on the mechanics Z axis important
My plan is to build a frame with a dual X-gantry:
How will you "switch" gantries?
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine May 21, 2017 04:08AM |
Both gantrys are always mounted. I'll park the unused gantry at either end in Y-direction. That way, I only loose a few centimeters of build plate, but don't have to deal with two machines/controllers/working area.
Would you use two rails with two carriers each for the Z-gantry? ( four carriers in total )
I already did many times ...and I replaced the balls with A+ quality balls, so I have HIWIN quality at chinese prices :p
Just make sure, the bearings have ball retainers.
Would you use two rails with two carriers each for the Z-gantry? ( four carriers in total )
Quote
NEVER TAKE THE BLOCKS off the rail!!!!
I already did many times
...and I replaced the balls with A+ quality balls, so I have HIWIN quality at chinese prices :pJust make sure, the bearings have ball retainers.
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine May 21, 2017 01:21PM |
The Y carriage on my Shapeoko is 160mm
So 160mm times 2 off 1500 mm ---- your travel will be at best 1180mm
I suppose a 1m build area OK?
1m span --- hope you have some hefty stock to support the rails?
So 160mm times 2 off 1500 mm ---- your travel will be at best 1180mm
I suppose a 1m build area OK?
1m span --- hope you have some hefty stock to support the rails?
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine June 03, 2017 04:19AM |
I just got my spindle mount for a 2.2kw and was shocked how big the mount is alone lol, water cooled is best way if you want to stay sane as they are far quieter but have a lot of other advantages as well. Make sure you get a pot for the vfd to control spindle speed but sure you're on it
The extrusion can take the weight no problems but it's the flex, if you have access drill press and are ok with marking out and drilling you can strengthen up the shell with angle steel and t nuts for cheap but you must inspect every angle you buy to ensure it's straight. This won't work for the extrusion with the bearings on of course.
You might be able to use more bearings to spread the weight you need to check the mounting plate but it does look like you have options to use more.
[www.amazon.co.uk]
This is the standard router I see people bolting on and it weighs 2.5kg's and of course routers vibrate a lot more than spindles which adds considerable stresses so I would think unless the spindle is heavier than 2.5kg's it will perform better than a router in a stock machine. Those metal plates holding it together look a rather skinny are they aluminium or steel?
Good luck with your build.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2017 04:25AM by Desertboy.
The extrusion can take the weight no problems but it's the flex, if you have access drill press and are ok with marking out and drilling you can strengthen up the shell with angle steel and t nuts for cheap but you must inspect every angle you buy to ensure it's straight. This won't work for the extrusion with the bearings on of course.
You might be able to use more bearings to spread the weight you need to check the mounting plate but it does look like you have options to use more.
[www.amazon.co.uk]
This is the standard router I see people bolting on and it weighs 2.5kg's and of course routers vibrate a lot more than spindles which adds considerable stresses so I would think unless the spindle is heavier than 2.5kg's it will perform better than a router in a stock machine. Those metal plates holding it together look a rather skinny are they aluminium or steel?
Good luck with your build.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2017 04:25AM by Desertboy.
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine June 04, 2017 03:43AM |
I'll be interested how it works? I have a spare ramps, mega & steppers but I also have an uno so I bought a cnc shield (£3.50). I have a 24v power supply so it's probably easier to use the cnc shield as I would have to do some minor mod to the ramps to use the 24v power supply. I'm sure I will end up with the same make of inverter but I haven't bought the spindle/inverter combo yet so will remember that tip when it comes
I read on another forum someone saying adding a pot to his VFD was the best 75p he ever spent lol so I figured I'd do it anyway as it can still be controlled by the software as well.
At some point I intend to upgrade to better stepper drivers and a breakout board so I can try linuxcnc but gbrl will be fine for my uses until I get a 4th axis. My nema 23 stepper motors are 3+ amp so would benefit from better drivers and 36v+ power supply. I believe I can still run something like a TB6600 (£5 a driver up to 4 amps) from a cnc shield but needs some creative wiring to interface with the stepper sockets and directly to supply power by passing the cnc shield for stepper motor power.
I doubt it's worth upgrading the z axis drivers unless I beef the frame up with steel first.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2017 03:48AM by Desertboy.
I read on another forum someone saying adding a pot to his VFD was the best 75p he ever spent lol so I figured I'd do it anyway as it can still be controlled by the software as well.
At some point I intend to upgrade to better stepper drivers and a breakout board so I can try linuxcnc but gbrl will be fine for my uses until I get a 4th axis. My nema 23 stepper motors are 3+ amp so would benefit from better drivers and 36v+ power supply. I believe I can still run something like a TB6600 (£5 a driver up to 4 amps) from a cnc shield but needs some creative wiring to interface with the stepper sockets and directly to supply power by passing the cnc shield for stepper motor power.
I doubt it's worth upgrading the z axis drivers unless I beef the frame up with steel first.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2017 03:48AM by Desertboy.
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine June 10, 2017 07:25AM |
Quote
o_lampe
I think 3mm steel will be strong enough to reproduce the brackets in 10mm aluminum. It's like "pulling yourself out of the mud on your own hair" ( quote from Baron Munchhausen stories )
Why tooling plate?
Tooling plate is ground flat both sides, aluminium plate is surprisingly wobbly (20mm thick over 1m can be up to 0.2mm deviation) so I'm using tooling plate to mount the gantry to the supported rail (Makes things much easier I've been told by experienced builders on other forums) and for the z axis (Mine is a custom z axis made from freebie parts) but I will use 6082 (Machining aluminium) for the nema 23 mounts and the ballscrew drive mounts.
I only started building mine because I had a score of 25mm supported rail and I already had the extrusion, T nuts, etc neither of which cost me any money just my own time I never intended to build it the way I am or spend the amount I am although I will still spend under £850 in total for everything including £210 on the spindle so I think I will have got good bang for buck. When I saw the Hiwin for £100 for 1.5m I just couldn't resist.
The other reason to use tooling plate is I have 45*90 heavy duty extrusion (Twice the wall thickness) all round, 25mm supported rail, 15mm hiwin, 4 nema 23's (Bought a matching pair, recovered 2 for free), ballscrew drive all round, a ground ballscrew on the Z axis! I think since things got upgraded a lot from the original plan I can justify the expense on the tooling plate.
I'm going to call her Betty in honour of Frank Spencer
I need to mount mine like this
These are just scrap pieces of aluminium I'm using to measure it out so I can then cad it and send the plate and models to my mate and hopefully in 3-5 days I will have it back ready to go
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2017 09:37AM by Desertboy.
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Re: Milling and laser engraving on one machine June 11, 2017 12:29PM |
Quote
VDX
... the cavities in the common extrusion profiles aren't wide enough to give much of stiffness - better search "light" types with big caities and thin walls.
You can use any 2K epoxy resin with sand - it should be roughly 6% of the resin, compared to the sand volume, for highest stiffnes values ...
My gantry has a large cavity
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