Idea for solution to chicken and egg problem

Hi all,

This is my first post, I have been reading the site and forums for the last week, I have done a search regarding the idea I have had and it appears not to have been mentioned.

The main issue as many of you will know for producing the initial machine is having the parts that the self replicating machine can provide.

This is obviously why repstrap was created.

I am based in the UK, the McWire Repstrap offers a problem for us here as we don't have the steel piping available to construct the machine.


Which poses a problem, also if there is no-one available to construct the parts for the machine, or the parts become cost prohibitive then the machine becomes unfeasable for the individual.

Now for the cartesian robot's structural components (not the extruder), where the majority how about if it was possible to construct the darwin components from paper or card laminated with some kind resin?

Such as with some of those 3D models you can purchase in the shops.

The precept being that if we can develop templates, the user can print them out on a standard printer (type irrelevant), cut them out and laminate them.

Obviously this could require some analysis on the structural results and is based on the users capability to construct the components.

To me, the prospect of only having to buy one set of components and build one machine to achive the desired goal is attractive and thought Iwould share this with you.

Thanks for reading

Anno

Why not make a rep(st)rap out of wood? The bitsfrombytes design can also be perfectly made out of wood. You just need a lot of handywork and a lot of sawing, but it is possible. At least its better than using paper... You can also print the designs on paper and cut it out. Most quality copy-shops can print upto A0, which i think should be enough.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2009 08:34AM by Mr. Seeker.

I agree it could be made out of wood, but not all of us are fortunate to have access to the tools or the skills to make it providing the tools are available.

Most of us obviously have access to a computer, if you're reading this and it is essential for the project.

As a result most of us will have access to printer, also paper, scissors/craft knife and resins.

This should make for a realistic propsal for the many rather than the few.

It is also a lower cost, but greater time requirement

Precisely cutting. positioning, and gluing dozens of layers of cardboard precisely enough to make a working part also requires a certain unusual skill.

Might be better to work out an improved bootstrap design that has more stock and fewer custom parts.

... read here: [forums.reprap.org]

Or search for "paperwork" or "Pepakura Designer" - with Pepakura you can unfold a computer generated 3D-Object into 2D-sheets representing all the surfaces of the 3D-object, print and cut them, then fold and glue to a 3D-body out from paper or thin aluminium-sheets (as i mentioned in the fisrt posts).

Then fill the 3D-paper-bodies with some hardening material as 2K-epoxy, concrete or such - and you have a precise and stable 3D-object for building serious machinery ...

Viktor

VDX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... read here:
> [forums.reprap.org]
> ura,page=1,match_type=ALL,match_dates=0,match_foru
> m=ALL
>
> Or search for "paperwork" or "Pepakura Designer" -
> with Pepakura you can unfold a computer generated
> 3D-Object into 2D-sheets representing all the
> surfaces of the 3D-object, print and cut them,
> then fold and glue to a 3D-body out from paper or
> thin aluminium-sheets (as i mentioned in the fisrt
> posts).
>
> Then fill the 3D-paper-bodies with some hardening
> material as 2K-epoxy, concrete or such - and you
> have a precise and stable 3D-object for building
> serious machinery ...
>
> Viktor

Ok this may offer the same opportunity without the excessive work load, will take a look at that tool thanks

The malleable iron pipe _is_ available in the UK - just not at homebase / b&q / wickes. It's not used for central heating here as it seems to be in the US so it's not a DIY item, but it is used for air conditioning and other plant piping.

I posted a bunch of online retailers that carry it here [forums.reprap.org]

It's slightly more expensive than in the US, but you should be able to get all the bits you need for a McWire for under £40-£50, and a fair bit cheaper if you can find a local supplier and not pay delivery.

Making a reprap from wood isn't too hard, provided you have access to a drill and a saw. You can even follow the darwin design so that when your printer is up and running you can slowly replace the wood with reprapped parts. My wooden reprap can be seen at [picasaweb.google.com] if anyone's interested. Using paper seems tedious and slow, you could learn the skill needed to make the wooden parts in less time.

I love the idea! When my BfB repstrap is finished I'm going to give a shot at a Pepakura cornerblock. Used Pepakura for a stand (http://www.unfold.be/pages/projects/items/heatwave-stand-salone-del-mobile-milan), its a fun tool and I have a license. Blender can unfold too but I never had time to wrap my head around the blender UI.

Hi unfold,

... you must have a REALLY BIG printer!

Then it should be no problem to construct your house, unfold it, print, glue together, fill with concrete - and use

Viktor

Hi Viktor,

No, regular CNC, 300 sheets and many hands, tape, nuts and bolts
As of making a mould to poor a house in, thats something I've seen in India. They build a mould from wood planks and studding two stories high and then cast the whole thing in one move. Looks terrific!

Finished my xyz bot yesterday, on to the extruder! After that i'll try paper cast parts.

greetings,
dries

I have an Idea I have been working on to significantly cut the cost of the parts required to accurately build a Repstrap Dawin machine its still at the empirical Idea stage at the moment.
I'm kind of a lazy engineer always looking for the cheaper and easier way to make some thing I have set the target cost at > £300 or > $450 for a complete kit of bits.

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Bodge It [reprap.org]
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BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board	BIQ Stepcon	BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB	BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement	BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting	BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting	Print It Stick It Cut it

My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]

What some others and I have been working on so far is a way to make a RepStrap at home for those who won't necessarily have a ton of scrap metal or other scrap on hand, for under $50 (at least the mechanical portions), and this is very doable. But our project won't be relevant for another few months. It's simpler and cheaper than a McWire.

In the meantime, just building a repstrap seems easier. Base your repstrap off of the Seedling repstrap that has a bit of documentation on the site, and for your xyz bot use a McWire. The only "difficult" to manufacture parts are the stages, and piping can be substituted with wood or a heavy material, angles can be substituted with long bolts, really anything in the McWire design can be substituted with a thousand other things. Use wood instead of acryllic/plexiglass, build a new base out of a wooden board instead of more metal pipin, etc. The only tools you really need are a hacksaw and a drill at the bare minimum (until you get to building the extruder).

... i'm thinking about a fold-out frame embedded in a suitcase - so it's highly mobile and can be stored everywere if not in use ...

Maybe it's not so practicable for the standard-reprap, but my setup works with paste-dispensers for roomtemp fabbing and a diode-laser for laminating objects.

Another point for a smaller frame is my special interest in high accuracy fabbing with <0.01mm resolution and box sizes less than 100mm.

For my bigger parts i have the CNC-mill with 500x500x90mm working area ...

Viktor