Axis won't move backwards & testing without an extruder

Hey Reprap community!

I'm currently having trouble getting my axis to move backwards... i can jog them forward, but when i try to jog them back they do nothing.

My setup is a "JunkStrap" (very crude RepStrap made from junk i found for free!)... Arduino Mega 1280, Pololu Electronics, & the latest RepRap Host software & FiveD Firmware.

I know my Pololu electronics are working because i was previously using an Arduino Duemilanove 328P with it and some old firmware from here... [forums.reprap.org]. I used this setup with Java 5 and an old version of the Host software that was known to work with this firmware. All my axis were moving just fine with this firmware, but I wanted to move to a more current firmware and decided that getting an Auduino Mega and starting off with the standard RepRap Host software and the standard FiveD firmware would be the best bet as im still building and testing my "JunkStrap"

So i have the firmware all uploaded, my Host software seem to be talking with my electronics just fine, I can jog the axis in the positive direction, but they won't move in the negative/backwards direction.

Anyone have any thoughts, hints? Im guessing it's just a simple change in my configuration.h file, but i can't seem to find the setting im missing. I thought maybe it had to do with inverting my Endstop signals, but i couldn't figure out how to do that (im using microswitches instead of optos.... again because they were free!).

Also, my other question is..... are there any settings i need to change to test out all the axis (even do some dry run prints) without an extruder? Will the firmware get upset if i try to do things without a thermistor and heater connected? Should i comment anything out to test my machine like this? I didn't seem to need to with the old firmware i was using, but the new FiveD firmware seems very different than what i was using before.

Also, sorry one more question.... So again because im using whatever i could find for free.... My X & Z axis use 7.5 degree steppers which i geared down for better resolution... My Y axis is an old scanner bed that has a normal looking 1.8 degree stepper, but it was already geared down and that's how i have left it...... because of this i don't want to be running all the axis at 1/16th microstepping.... i want, for example, to run one at 1/2 stepping, one at 1/8th stepping, and one at 1/16th stepping.... I didn't see anywhere in the configuration.h file to specify this... the old firmware i was using had a place to specify the number of steps/rev which is basically the same thing.

How would i go about using different microstepping on different axis with the FiveD firmware.

Thanks,
-Drew

... attach MIN-switches/optos or invert the polarity of the MIN-switches - the software reads them as active, so won't let you run in the homing diection ...

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

I currently have the MIN-switches attached, so are you saying to physically invert the polarity of the signal in the wiring? Or to invert them in the firmware? If in the firmware how do i do that? This is what i see in the configuration.h file....

// Set to one if the axis opto-sensor outputs inverting (ie: 1 means open, 0 means closed)
// RepRap opto endstops with H21LOI sensors are not inverting; ones with H21LOB
// are inverting.
// RepRap opto endstops with H21LOI sensors are not inverting; ones with H21LOB are inverting.
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_HSBNE_OMRON

// are all axes using the same opto?
#define X_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
#define Y_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
#define Z_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE

It seems to have neither a 1 or a 0 set by default, so im confused what to change to invert them.

Also, if it helps, my MIN switches are wired exactly like this... [reprap.org] (scroll to bottom for schematic)

Thanks,
-Drew

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 04:19AM by daufhammer.

... AFAIK there is another place, where you can invert the swithches - but can't look here into the firmware ...

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

ok thanks, i will try to keep looking.... let me know if you do have a chance to look into it.

Anyone else know where to invert the endstop signals in the current FiveD firmware? Or have any thoughts on my other questions?

... the "ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_..." are defined in "features.h"

The settings are made in "configutarion.h" in the specific define-range.

With the MENDEL_GEN3_DEFAULTS i have:

Quote

// RepRap opto endstops with H21LOI sensors are not inverting; ones with H21LOB are inverting.
//#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_H21LOI
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_H21LOB

// are all axes using the same opto?
#define X_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
#define Y_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
#define Z_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE

... where the ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_H21LOB = 1 and the ...H21LOI = 0, as defined in "features.h"

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Thanks for the continued help Viktor! Just a heads up, hardware/mechanics and electronics are my strengths.... I only have a basic understanding of programming/firmware.

So i didn't totally understand that, but let me see if i can repeat it back to you......

-My problem is that my endstop signal needs to be inverted because my axis will only move in the positive direction.
-I can't just change a "1" or a "0" somewhere to invert the endstops (like we can to invert an axis)
-I have to look in features.h, to see all the defined endstop options
-Then in my configurations.h file i need to put in the appropriate endstop definition that coincides with my mechanical endstop setup.

Is that what you are saying?

If so here is what i see in features.h.......

// eg:
//#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_OES2_1

#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_NORMAL 0
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_INVERTING 1
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_OES1_0 ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_NORMAL // [make.rrrf.org]
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_OES2_1 ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_INVERTING // [reprap.org] - reprap Opto End Stop circuit revision 2.1
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_H21LOI ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_NORMAL
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_H21LOB ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_INVERTING
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_HSBNE_OMRON ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_INVERTING //HSBNE Mendel
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_YOUR_TYPE ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_INVERTING // if you have a published circuit

And again here is what i have in my configuration.h MENDEL_MEGA_DEFAULTS

// Set to one if the axis opto-sensor outputs inverting (ie: 1 means open, 0 means closed)
// RepRap opto endstops with H21LOI sensors are not inverting; ones with H21LOB
// are inverting.
// RepRap opto endstops with H21LOI sensors are not inverting; ones with H21LOB are inverting.
#define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_HSBNE_OMRON

// are all axes using the same opto?
#define X_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
#define Y_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
#define Z_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE

What should i do? I still don't really understand.

I really appreciate the help.
p.s. how do you put your code in those nice little quote boxes? I just made mine blue to make it easier to see

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 04:52PM by daufhammer.

daufhammer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not inverting; ones with H21LOB are inverting.
> #define ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
> ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE_HSBNE_OMRON
>
> // are all axes using the same opto?
> #define X_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
> #define Y_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
> #define Z_ENDSTOP_INVERTING ENDSTOP_OPTO_TYPE
>
> What should i do? I still don't really
> understand.

... the "...OMRON"-define is essentially = 1, so you can write:

#define X_ENDSTOP_INVERTING 0
#define Y_ENDSTOP_INVERTING 0
#define Z_ENDSTOP_INVERTING 0

to invert all your endstops ...


> p.s. how do you put your code in those nice little
> quote boxes? I just made mine blue to make it
> easier to see

Quote

... mark your text with the mouse, press the double-quotationmarks-button in the toolbar an let the 'person' free ...

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Awesome, thanks Viktor... I made that change and my axis work in both directions now!

I still have a LOT of fine tuning to do, along with building an extruder, but im well on my way!

Do you have any thoughts on my other two questions...

Can i test print without an extruder? If so what settings do i need to change or do i need to comment out something?

Is it possible to run different axis in different microstepping modes? I may want to run my Y axis in 1/4 stepping because it is geared down so much, but leave the other axis in 16th stepping.

Thanks,
-Drew

Hi Drew,

... i'm on a similar path - with my "RepRap-CNC-conversion-Kit" i'm developing a common kit for converting CNC-mills in RepStraps.

For this i screwed a Gen3-motherboard on a PCB with a VG-connector on a side and wired the stepper- and MIN.switch-wires so, that they fits to the hardware of a Isel-C142-controller.

Now i'm adjusting the extruder and firmware and will test with the heaters off too.

I think you can reduce the target temperatures to the values you'll read without atached thermistors, so the software will start instantly without pre-heat ...

The extruder is another task - i think, if you reduce the extruder-count to 0, then it won't work properly

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Thanks... I was actually noticing today that without thermistors attached the host software showed a temp hovering in the 150 range.... so that totally makes sense to just reduce the target temperatures below 150 (or whatever it shows) to just trick the host into thinking the extruder is all heated up and ready to go.

So im still trying to figure out the answer to my last question (for now, im sure i will have more)....

Quote

Is it possible to run different axis' in different microstepping modes? I may want to run my Y axis in 1/4 stepping because it is geared down so much, but leave the other axis in 16th stepping.

I have been messing with the settings in the firmware and my pololu stepper drivers, i tried to leave the X, Z, and E axis at 16th microstepping, but wanted to change the Y to 1/8th stepping

I set the Y pololu stepper driver to 1/8th stepping and left all the others at 16th stepping, then halved my value for Y_STEPS_PER_MM in configuration.h, so that it reflected the change to 1/8th stepping.

I just left this line below the same in configuration.h too because im not sure it actually does anything.... Does it????

Quote

// Motherboard 3 driving Pololu microstepping controllers - 16 microsteps
#define MICROSTEPPING 16

I recompiled the firmware, uploaded it to my Mega a fired up the Host software and my machine.... but the Y axis was having a lot of trouble jogging in any direction... it would try, make a bunch of noise, but wouldn't go much of anywhere.... I tried some test prints (no extruder, just a pen) like a 40x40 cube and it did the same... the Y axis would try to home, but just make a bunch of noise then i would get a "hard fault" because it never hit the endstop switch.

I tried adjusting the current going to the Y stepper motor, tried turning Acceleration Off, then back On in the firmware, but it just didn't seem to like 1/8th stepping.

Why would a motor not work in one microstepping mode, but work fine in another? Is there anything i can change to make it work in a microstepping mode other than 16th?

... if you reduce the microstepping, then mostly you have to reduce the max. speed of the resp. axes too or they will stall when to fast ...

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Thanks that makes sense... As I have been experimenting/tweaking a bit more, i have figured out that my geared down 7.5 degree steppers can't seem to go as fast with the current FiveD firmware for some reason.... they were working just fine with a 2 year old version of the FiveD firmware at the default speed, but with the latest version of the firmware they would just lock up and make a loud buzzing sound whenever they went too fast.

It seemed like i had to drop down my MaximumFeedrateMM/Minute) and MaximumFeedrateY(MM/Minute) down to about 500 and turn off acceleration.

Like i said, the weird thing is that it worked fine at that rate with the older firmware, but with the latest FiveD, it doesn't... although it did for like the first day, but not anymore.