Augus want to build Prusa i3 Einstein variant

I want to build my first 3D printer, at first I was going to buy the kit but then I decided to gather them separately instead of the kit.
And I settle with EiNSTeiN variant as I see it feature build in reprap magazine.

Single Al frame
M10 base frame



I am making this thread is to keep all the links and status in one place.

BOM - from reprap magazine issue 2

EiNSTeiN - single plate style

GitHub

single plate CAD file

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2013 12:14PM by augus.

TODO:

excel file of the BOM - copy from original GitHub which is the same as the one in reprap magazine so i add my source to it.
find source for components


is it possible to increase build size?
what is the size of the glass? - will wait till get heat bed pcb and get cut at local hardware store.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2013 03:26PM by augus.

Welcome to the world of "why start with a kit for your first printer". It's always easier to source the parts with a working model sitting in front of you. The kit supplier has that working model to go from.

There are way to many small variations out there to have a single BOM. Consider one very simple question - Is the particular aluminum frame you have pre tapped or not? If so what is it tapped for? Do you trust threads tapped into aluminum or not? Do you like to use washers? Depending on your answers, the number of M2.5 / M3 bolts (and their lengths) and accompanying nuts are going to change. You could also go with US centric hardware...

The glass dimensions are defined by your heated bed PCBoard and the hardware you use to mount the board. Size is relatively non-critical as long as it's not wider than the spacing between the bolt heads. 200 mm seems to work pretty well. How close can you (or your local store) cut glass? Around here the answer is - not very accurately .... Glass is the last thing you need and it's easily sourced locally for very little money. I'd simply wait and measure your heated bed with hardware once you have in in front of you.

If you increase the X or Y build size, you will need a different heated bed PCB. I'd try and source that before changing either dimension. Changing Y impacts rods and belts. Changing X impacts belts, rods, and the aluminum frame. Changing Z impacts the aluminum frame and 4 rods. Enlarging any of them will make the printer less stiff and will impact accuracy some. You can add structure or material (thicker plate or rods) to improve stiffness. The more you do to the dimensions the less it's a Prusa and the more it's an Angus.

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It's not my money, but here are some suggestions:

Look at sourcing the small hardware ( M3, M2.5) in 100 piece bags. In my case that means buying them from an internet source. Get a few more lengths than you *think* you will need. Your BOM cost will go up by 3 or 4%, your sanity will be intact after your build. Chasing around after one of exactly 31 16 mm long M3 bolts on the floor is not much fun (the 6th time...) . You will also find that the recommended lengths often are not quite perfect in all cases. Having one size longer or shorter may make for a cleaner build. Doing this off of the BOM cuts the length of your BOM by about 90%

Make very sure of the smooth rod dimensions. The thread rods are not quite as critical. In most cases if they are a little to long, that's fine.

It's amazingly easy to get in a rush and push the ball bearings out of a linear bearing. They are *tiny* and hide well. Linear bearings are cheap, and even cheaper in lots of 10 or so.

If you can - find a local who has a printer. Buy him a case (or two) of beer and a roll of filament. Go over and help him drink the beer and print out your plastic parts. You may not save any money, but you will learn some very important stuff doing the prints (the prints not the pints ...). It'll save you a week or five when you start trying to get things working. You also will have a quick source for that one part you forgot about 98% of the way through the build.

Heated bed resistance is important. Make sure that who ever you get it from will guarantee it's done right. A high resistance bed is easy to buy on the internet ....

Bob

Quote
uncle_bob
There are way to many small variations out there to have a single BOM.

This cant be stated enough. I built my first RepRap (Prusa i3, laser frame) not knowing there would be so many tiny variations in everyones builds. I ended up having to re-source a bunch of parts, and bodge together some others.

That being said, it's a lot more fun, and educational to do it all yourself. I enjoyed it and still got my build in at just over £300 - a kit would have cost me at least that, if not more.

If you're happy to do the research, go for it. I would however recommend buying all the electronics as a kit as you can get that very wrong. I ended up going with a reprapdiscount kit which included a RAMPS board, heated bed, screen, fan, etc. All I then had to get was the motors (although IIRC they do sell them).

One of the biggest messups I made was buying a really nice Budaschnozzle hot end for £60, thinking it would fit on a standard Gregs extruder - it didn'. I now have a £20 J-Head on it until I can calibrate the printer well enough to print a replacement for the Budaschnozzle.

There can be a surprising amount of micro customization in the kits. The one I have works fine with a Magma hot end (running ABS). I've tried a couple of mechanical mods and each of them has made the hot end work worse. Somebody spend a bit of quality time getting everything (fan mount / fan size / fan speed / carriage / hot end / settings) to work right. It's not anything that you can't do yourself. You simply need to spend some time and accept that the first thing you try may not be right. That's where the beer and the local guy with the printer come in .....

thanks everyone for input.

I am in process of finding sources (I am in US, southern california), if anyone have suggested sources (multiples source are great) please help me with BOM link at second post above.
I will try to locate local reprap printer to check out and get RP parts done.
I will get bulk hardware (for same size screw i will get longer length and cut down to needed length).


Thanks,

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2013 11:04AM by augus.

Well here are a few thoughts:

1) I'm a fan of the stepper motors that MakerFarm sells. To me they are the right current / voltage / torque combination for one of these printers. They also can come with exactly the correct connectors on them for a Ramps board. No nutty stuff to get the Z motors to both plug in !!!

2) The MakerFarm heated bed PC boards are made correctly (right resistance). There are a number of threads here from people who got bum boards from odd sources. They also have some interesting over size boards for “super sized” printers. A 12” Y is a very appealing thing to do…. (yes there’s a *bunch* of fiddly details to tend to if you go that way).

3) I think the "real" Prusa made aluminum frame looks very nice and they aren't too expensive. They are already tapped and I *really* hate tapping a whole bunch of holes with a hand held tap. Several sources sell them.

4) When you are ordering thread rod, get enough for the Z back braces as well. It’s a cheap addition if you do it as part of the initial build. For that matter, get enough that you can make a cutting mistake and not have to re-order.

5) I don’t have any problem with buying the bits and pieces of the electronics from here and there. I may be a bit unique in this since I’ve been doing that sort of stuff for over 50 years. How ever you do it, you will need a solid Mega board, a Ramps 1.4, 4 stepper drivers, (LCD / SD), and I’d get a 29A 12V industrial supply.

6) Smooth rod and linear bearings are pretty important. I would not cheap out on either one. The same thing applies to the hobed bolt in the extruder.

7) Hot ends are a matter of major debate. I have not found any that are universally loved for all materials. Plan on starting with one, and budgeting for a second.

8) Get a half dozen or so 40 mm 12V fans. They come in handy for this and that. You should have one on your Ramps / mega, and one on your hot end. You may find that fans on motors are nice. You may also want a cooling fan(s) on the work area for some very specific types of prints. At $2 each, it’s not a tough thing to stock up on.

9) Print your parts from ABS.

10) I hate cutting down very small fine pitch bolts. I've done it a lot. Getting the threads just right after the cut can be a pain when you are going into tapped aluminum. Of course, if you aren't using tapped aluminum that may not be an issue.

I'll put my experience here in the hope that it will be helpful. My printer is an i2, but this may apply to the i3 as well.
I didn't go for a complete kit, but instead built from partial kits and a few extras. The purchases were split as follows:

*Printed parts
*Hardware kit including screws, rods, bearings, belts steppers, hobbed bolt, springs etc.
*Electronics. I used my existing arduino mega and bought a RAMPS shield to go on top.
*J-Head extruder. This included resistors, thermistors PTFE liner and the extruder itself.
*ATX Power supply
*Heated bed

Unfortunately even though the hardware kit came with lots of spares I had to go to the hardware store for some more M3 screws of a specific length. On top of this I had to salvage wire from various places (including high temperature wire for the extruder), and find microswitches. My printer is starting to become a wiring mess with a salvaged LCD and buttons/switches added recently. In total it took me about a month to build my printer. For me this slow pace was fine, however it may start to become annoying for others.

Some people may prefer this approach since it encourages you to reuse as much as possible. Others may find it an inconvenience. For me I didn't mind since I have a large collection of "junk" and enjoy the challenge of getting it all to work in harmony. You can always replace this "junk" with bought parts if you don't have them available.

Regards,
Sam

My biggest frustration (as you all have probably have guessed by now) was hardware. Paying $0.65 at the local store for one or two of something is convenient. Ordering a hundred of the same part for $1.65 (including shipping) is less convenient, but much cheaper in the long run. I very much wish I had ordered all the 100 piece batches back when I had the three weeks to wait for them to ship in from "far far away".

After initial search cost is up there close to full kit price offer around the forum. High cost are due to getting pre configure build items: hotend pre-aaemble, RAMPS kit already setup, motor already wire with connector,... guess I will have to do the work to save money.

Approximate
$40 Printed part
$50 Hotend J-head
$130 RAMPS electronics kit
$70 NEMA 17 motors
$45 Rods
$25 Nuts Bolts Washers
$25 Heat Bed
$25 Bearings, Belts, Pulleys

Ok, here's a few micro decisions to make:

Do you go with "normal" steel thread rods or do you go with A2 or A4 stainless? When you cut the zinc plated stuff, the end is no longer plated. With stainless that's not as much of an issue. With the M5 rod, is stainless likely to be better than normal steel? You very much do want a good piece of rod for the M5's.

M8 or M10 for the cross bars (short rods) in the Y plane? M10 are very much better for the long rods, but for the short ones?

How crazy do you go on the smooth rods? O1 tool steel is one thing, it's another thing if you have the gear to harden it. It's something else if you can grind it after hardening. How important is chrome (it's really hard stuff..)?

A lot of the rod kits don't get into many of the details of the materials. You will (roughly) double the price of the rods if you buy stuff that you *know* is right.

Bob

Quote
uncle_bob
Ok, here's a few micro decisions to make:
Bob

Thanks uncle_bob, now I have no idea what to get for each of those different rod. I was just random picking stuff out of mcmaster website, will have to do more research on these thing as I don't know about metal stuff.

Ok, if you had already dug into it this would be *really* boring:

Thread rod comes in a variety of materials. It can be raw steel made from old Ford's with no plating at all. It can be fancy marine grade (316 or A4) stainless steel. It can be zinc plated if it's not stainless. There's no real reason to believe that it will be belter threaded if it’s more expensive. You could *hope* it would be.
If you cut zinc plated rod, you have raw steel on the end. Cut stainless and you have … stainless. Less rust and a nicer look. If you *really* go crazy tightening the nuts stainless can gall. More or less the nut welds it’s self to the rod or bolt. You will also risk cracking a printed part at those levels. Anti-seize compounds are made to take care of the issue. They work quite well.

Smooth rod could be a piece of nothing special steel. That would make it softer than the bearings and they will wear groves in it. A piece of O1 (oil hardening tool steel) is an option. That stuff comes soft (so you can machine it) and you harden it by heat treating. If you have heat treatment gear, I’d bet you already know how to work with the stuff. You can also get rod that has been through the hardening process already. It’s not much different than the O1 other than being harder. Next step up would be chrome plating. That gives you a really hard surface. As you move up in cost, the tolerance of the rod gets tighter.

You can get a full set of all the rods needed, pre-cut to length for some amount of money. The more you spend, the more details you get on what they are. Even at $50 or so you really don’t seem to get the super good stuff. You can spend roughly that amount on bulk chunks each type of rod (threaded or smooth) and cut it yourself. You will have some left over if you do. For 1.5X to 2X that price you can find people who will cut stuff to length for you.

Except for the M5 stuff, thread rod isn’t super critical on one of these printers. The decision there is simply how it looks when you are done. Smooth rod directly impacts how things work. It also (like the M5 rod) will wear with time. There is a risk that really good smooth rod and really cheap bearings may not play well together (tolerance issues). The harder the smooth rod, the more fun it will be to cut.

Buying a rod kit pretty much sets all your dimensions. If you go with Z axis struts, the back Y rods will be the wrong length. If you cut it yourself you could mess up. You can also customize this and that so it works well together.

Lots of decisions.

after some searching, I could not come get price low enough compare to pre-kit seller.
I give up and went ahead and purchase i3x kit from diytechshop.

thanks everyone for your input and especially uncle_bob,

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2013 05:05PM by augus.

Shucks, just when all the sorting parts out was getting interesting. .

I do not know of a way to get the "bunch of parts I bought" price down to the price of that kit. You also have to factor in the fact (one hopes a fact) that the parts in the kit all play well together. That will save you about 6 weeks. It's a hobby, but still - how much is your time worth? Time for you to get some filament on order. You should be up and printing in a week or three.

Of course for your *second* printer, there's always the scratch build option ... one can not stop after only one.

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Now I need to find somebody else to debate my next build with ....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2013 06:00PM by uncle_bob.

Quote
uncle_bob
Shucks, just when all the sorting parts out was getting interesting. .

Of course for your *second* printer, there's always the scratch build option ... one can not stop after only one.

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Now I need to find somebody else to debate my next build with ....

let start second printer build now i will have to build another for my friend he already reserve one.


any recommendation, where to buy 3.0mm filament? i was going to get from amazon, but seeing bad review i did not order.
any recommendation, which power supply to buy?


thing i got to buy:
soldering kit
digital caliper
small bubble level
power supply
filament

thing to do:
look into sofware side

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2013 08:51PM by augus.

I'm using Amazon Jet brand ABS filament right now. It's not the greatest stuff. It does work. Oddly enough there is more than one Jet selling filament on Amazon. You want the one that's prime eligible.

For a power supply, get a real MeanWell 12V 28-30A supply. You should be able to find one for $45 or less. Buy it from a dealer rather than on eBay. I've seen a lot of "almost correctly spelled" variations on the brand name. You don't want to pay full price for a clone. The S-350-12 was a good part number. They have a new set of numbers every so often. Any of the 12V enclosed supplies from them are fine.

i was looking at Jet brand too. I will give it a try and order 1 spool of PLA and 1 ABS

Filament is something that does not get better with storage time. It soaks up water from the air and you (eventually) should dry it out. The little gel packs in the bags only work for just so long. Starting with a small inventory is a good idea.

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Software wise there are an enormous number of options. None of them are perfect. Pronterface and Slic3r are pretty commonly used. Cura is an "all in one" option. I don't think any of them really give you the degree of control over the process that you need to have.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2013 09:55AM by uncle_bob.

just order a spool of white ABS, beginner soldering kit, and a look for daughter

as for power supply, I will use a spare computer power supply I have laying around from old computer. Will get Meanwell 12v 29a from TRC later on.

I will read makerfarm build instruction for software guide.

Cura is interesting will check it out more, as this is my first time with 3d printing want to make sure.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2013 11:45AM by augus.

Take a really good look at the numbers on your computer power supply. You need two 12V outputs that will give you > 20A combined. You would not *think* that would be the case, but here's the math:

1 ohm heated bed at 12V = 12A (yes it's an 11A rating, but it doesn't pull the power for 30 minutes ...)
5 motors with 2 windings each (10 windings) at what ever your current is set to.....
Hot end with 40W(may be more) heater 3-4 amps.
Three or more fans at 0.2A
Mega, Ramps, LCD (who knows ... 0.2A?)

You are over 16A before you ever turn on the motors. The magic "fuses" on the Rambo have some interesting ratings on them. That's where my 30 minutes comment comes from. Your heaters don't pull full power long enough to trip them even if there's an over current situation for a bit. Your power supply is not likely to be as forgiving.

The TRC supply is indeed the right one. If you get enough friends interested you could get a price break at 10 pieces

One neat thing about the industrial supplies - they are adjustable. Most of them will make it up to 14V. That's about as high as I'd trust the regular on the Mega even with a fan on it. Your heated bed comes up to temperature nice and fast at 14V ... The fans get a bit fast up there, but that's easily corrected with an un-used PWM output.