LulzBot's TAZ Printer?

The TAZ is not strictly speaking a RepRap, but it has similar mechanical structure as the Prusa i3. It looks very sturdy with aluminum extrusions and nicely organized electronics, but the price is a killer. I dont have $2000 to invest on a single printer and I'm thinking about sourcing parts and build one myself. I have a Prusa i3 from 3dpritnerczars.com so I can print the plastics myself. Before taking this endeavor, my question is: is it worth it at all? How much a difference will it make with the aluminum extrusions and rambo electroncis? The MendelMax also uses aluminum extrusions and I wonder if anyone has experience with it?

Another question: has anyone used the budaschnozzle before? How does it compare to a Prusa nozzle or a magma?

If you want to build an extrusion frame and don't want to pay for the aluminum, you can print out plastic t-slot beams instead. [www.thingiverse.com]

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MakerFarm 8" Prusa i3v
RAMPS 1.4
0.4mm E3D v6 for 1.75mm

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myohmy11
The TAZ is not strictly speaking a RepRap, but it has similar mechanical structure as the Prusa i3.

How is TAZ not a RepRap? Or would you exclude the Prusa Mendel, MendelMax, etc. as well? Just curious.

-Jeff

I might be wrong but I thought to be a RepRap the printer needs to be able to replicate parts of itself? TAZ should be considered a RepStrap instead maybe?

I like aluminum extrusions because it looks pretty steady. My MM2 using aluminum pieces is very heavy and i dont see a lot of vibrations when printing fast.

Quote
myohmy11
I might be wrong but I thought to be a RepRap the printer needs to be able to replicate parts of itself? TAZ should be considered a RepStrap instead maybe?

The TAZ can print around 30 of its own parts.

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jebba
How is TAZ not a RepRap? Or would you exclude the Prusa Mendel, MendelMax, etc. as well? Just curious.

A while back I read a Wiki entry by Adrian from the olden days that considered a Reprap to be able to replicate 50% of its parts. I don't get hung up on the distinction between Reprap and Repstrap these days. As the technology filters down to rank and file makers until we can print metals we're going to see increasingly more parts that aren't suitable (or practical) for PLA or ABS. An example I have is the idler arm for the Mendelmax 2 Maxstruder extruder. ABS was hit and miss though with a .8 density it worked though still had some flex. Polycarbonate worked much better but the print time was over an hour a part. The shop just cut some from 5052 AL this week and they're awesome. The goal of self replication is laudable but I think that ship sailed a year or so ago.

I self-sourced and built a Taz clone this fall and printed all of the parts on a Prusa Mendel V2 that I have owned for about 1.5 years. I am, very much, on the fence as to whether I would recommend that you build your own. I like the machine, but it has taken several refinements in order to realize my expectations. I realize now that I should have created a build log, but I will try to remember all of my changes...

• For starters, take a look at Thingiverse and refinements others have made here: [www.thingiverse.com]. The user 1013 has some great improvements and upgrades, espeically his stiffened X-Axis ends and extra-travel Z-ends.
• I chose to use stepper motors with integrated trapezoidal lead screws rather than the specified threaded rod. This added over $100 to the build cost, and required me to change the Z-nut holders, but they're dead-straight and the motion of the axis is silky smooth. I bought them from Robotdigg.com, here: [robotdigg.com]
• I added rigidity to the frame by using additional inside corner braces found here: [www.thingiverse.com]
• The original design made adjusting belt tension nearly impossible. I designed my own tensioning setup for the X and Y axes here: [www.thingiverse.com] and here [www.thingiverse.com].
• I chose to use larger, high-torque steppers [robotdigg.com], which required slightly taller Y-ends and some supplemental feet in the middle of the frame.
• The original belt guides used 608 bearings on 8mm bolts. While the belt path was straight on the Y-Axis, the belt path was diagonal on the X and there was considerable error as the carriage got closer to the idler. I changed both axes to 128zz bearings [avidrc.com], (4 per axis) and 8mm shoulder bolts [www.boltdepot.com]. The smaller diameter bearings straightened out the belt paths and the shoulder bolts prevent over-tightening of the printed supports, which can result in a rather problematic failure.

I'm sure there are other things that I don't recall at this moment, but those were the highlights. With all things considered, I do like the machine but have changed just about every oringal printed part. If I were to do it over again, I would opt for a more rigid design. At the least, I would upgrade the extrusions to 30x30, and possibly even 20x40 or 20x80 for the base. I can say that Lulzbot has been great, and I can't thank them enough for sharing the design as open-source. The only thing that I bought from them was the $30 aluminum build plate, but they have answered questions along the way and even shared a few files with me that hadn't yet been published on the website. Overall, the build tallied just about $1300 using my beefed-up components.

Quote
stonedcoldskier

...

• I chose to use stepper motors with integrated trapezoidal lead screws rather than the specified threaded rod. This added over $100 to the build cost, and required me to change the Z-nut holders, but they're dead-straight and the motion of the axis is silky smooth. I bought them from Robotdigg.com, here: [robotdigg.com]
  ...
• I chose to use larger, high-torque steppers [robotdigg.com], which required slightly taller Y-ends and some supplemental feet in the middle of the frame.
  ...

...

Trapezoidal lead screws doesn't really gain much in terms of print quality when compared to a threaded rod. There are plenty of examples on the web of high quality printed parts using printers with threaded rods. It's not really worth spending that much money on this. Does it go faster at least?

I'm also not sure what's gained from using larger motors on this printer.

You're right. There are plenty of printers using threaded rod, my own Mendel included, that produce great quality prints. Given the overal lack of rigidity in the Taz design, and the use of 10mm rods to stabilize the Z-axis, I was concerned that any wobble would translate to the prints. If you push on the middle of one of the Z-axis smooth rods, you can easily deflect it by .2 or .3mm with very little force. With that in mind, I'm glad that I used leadscrews that are straight and precise. I upgraded the motors for a couple of reasons. I was initially thinking about a design that would have used 2 sheets of 3.8mm borosilicate glass, on top of the aluminum build plate, and I was concerned about the weight. I wasn't sure how a smaller motor would handle the weight of the build surface, or how well it could overcome inertia in quick reversals. I also had visions of using the quick-change X carriage system to mount a dremel, etc., so I thought it better to over-build initially rather than retrofit larger motors later.

Thanks a lot stonedcoldskier, now I get a rough idea of what's lying before me. I think I'm going to stick with the basic design of TAZ and only do the "necessary" changes, like the slanted x belt, and stronger extrusions for the base. I'll keep you updated on my progress

Quote
stonedcoldskier
I self-sourced and built a Taz clone this fall and printed all of the parts on a Prusa Mendel V2 that I have owned for about 1.5 years. I am, very much, on the fence as to whether I would recommend that you build your own. I like the machine, but it has taken several refinements in order to realize my expectations. I realize now that I should have created a build log, but I will try to remember all of my changes...

• For starters, take a look at Thingiverse and refinements others have made here: [www.thingiverse.com]. The user 1013 has some great improvements and upgrades, espeically his stiffened X-Axis ends and extra-travel Z-ends.
• I chose to use stepper motors with integrated trapezoidal lead screws rather than the specified threaded rod. This added over $100 to the build cost, and required me to change the Z-nut holders, but they're dead-straight and the motion of the axis is silky smooth. I bought them from Robotdigg.com, here: [robotdigg.com]
• I added rigidity to the frame by using additional inside corner braces found here: [www.thingiverse.com]
• The original design made adjusting belt tension nearly impossible. I designed my own tensioning setup for the X and Y axes here: [www.thingiverse.com] and here [www.thingiverse.com].
• I chose to use larger, high-torque steppers [robotdigg.com], which required slightly taller Y-ends and some supplemental feet in the middle of the frame.
• The original belt guides used 608 bearings on 8mm bolts. While the belt path was straight on the Y-Axis, the belt path was diagonal on the X and there was considerable error as the carriage got closer to the idler. I changed both axes to 128zz bearings [avidrc.com], (4 per axis) and 8mm shoulder bolts [www.boltdepot.com]. The smaller diameter bearings straightened out the belt paths and the shoulder bolts prevent over-tightening of the printed supports, which can result in a rather problematic failure.

I'm sure there are other things that I don't recall at this moment, but those were the highlights. With all things considered, I do like the machine but have changed just about every oringal printed part. If I were to do it over again, I would opt for a more rigid design. At the least, I would upgrade the extrusions to 30x30, and possibly even 20x40 or 20x80 for the base. I can say that Lulzbot has been great, and I can't thank them enough for sharing the design as open-source. The only thing that I bought from them was the $30 aluminum build plate, but they have answered questions along the way and even shared a few files with me that hadn't yet been published on the website. Overall, the build tallied just about $1300 using my beefed-up components.

I just found my original BOM, so I figured that it wouldn't hurt to upload it. It does not include things like the updated bearings/shoulder bolts for the X and Y pulleys, but does provide a decent starting point. The total is actually a little less than I had thought for the initial dual-extruder build, but I went on to add a pair of E3D hotends for 1.75mm filament and there is no consideration in this BOM for the 1.5Kg of filament used in the printed parts.

The next generation TAZ BOM is here:

[devel.lulzbot.com]

It isn't 100% complete yet.

-Jeff

Is this BOM for a Tax 5 clone, Tax 4 clone or something else? Also, while I am asking, Is there an online assembly manual for a clone?

Hi Stonecoldskier-

Thanks for the TAZ BOM. I do not see how you made/acquired the aluminum arch "feet" on the front of the machine. Is this from Lulzbot? Are there plans for this somewhere?

Thanks,
Bob

Hi Bob,
I happened to log in and see that you have resurrected this topic. My original TAZ clone was built arount their Taz 2 and Taz 3 design which included 1-piece, printed arches at the front and rear. Interestingly enough, I ended up having to replace one and opted for the updated design. I created my own printed "arch" plates which make up the 4-piece Y-ends used on the current design. I have been happy with their performance for several months. Here are the .stl files for both ends. I don't know if they have changed the bearing mounts, motor mounts, or corners, so I have also attached their versions of each which mate to the plates I have made. The only thing I should mention is that I offset the holes of the idler end in order to maintain a straight belt path using 8x12x3.5mm bearings, as opposed to the 608's which have a 22mm diameter. If you're using 608's, they're going to be 5mm off to one side (and I can't remember which).

The latest files for the TAZ 5 are here:

[download.lulzbot.com]

Our development directory for unreleased products is here:

[devel.lulzbot.com]

Build instructions are here:

[ohai-kit.alephobjects.com]

-Jeff