RepRap Mendel TriColor - Additional Hot ends not working

I built a Mendel Tricolor using a kit from RepRapPro, the single color build worked perfectly fine, but when I added the additional extruders and the slave board, I have no control over the 2nd and 3rd hot ends are not heating. I'm pretty sure it is an issue with the thermoresistors, but I cannot find an issue with the wiring. When I check the wires prior to attachment to the slave board, the are reading ~100 kOhms, but only read ~4.75 kOhms attached to the board (instead to the recommended 10 kOhms). I have also tried resetting the firmware for the boards, but with no luck. Here is the readout from pronterface:
Connecting...
ok T0: 23.0/-273.1 T1: -272.3/-273.1 T2: -301.9/-273.1 B:23.9 /-273.1 @:0
Printer is now online.
SENDING:M503
echoteps per unit:
echo: M92 X87.49 Y87.49 Z4000.00 E660.00
echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
echo: M203 X300.00 Y300.00 Z5.00 E45.00
echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
echo: M201 X800 Y800 Z50 E800
echo:Acceleration: S=acceleration, T=retract acceleration
echo: M204 S1000.00 T1000.00
echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum xY jerk (mm/s), Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s)
echo: M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X15.00 Z0.40 E15.00
echo: M206 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
echoID settings:
echo: M301 H1 P12.00 I2.20 D80.00 W125.00
M301 H2 P125.00 I-273.00 D-273.00 W-273.00
M301 H3 P-273.00 I-273.00 D-273.00 W12.00
FPU Enabled no
Axis 0 max: 210.00 Axis 1 max: 210.00 Axis 2 max: 140.00
Bed/extruder 0 beta: 3988.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 10000.00 inf: 0.02
Bed/extruder 1 beta: 4138.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 100000.00 inf: 0.09
Bed/extruder 2 beta: 2.20 resistor: 80.00 thermistor: 125.93 inf: 125.00
Bed/extruder 3 beta: 12.00 resistor: 2.20 thermistor: 83.29 inf: 80.00
Extruder: 0 dX: 0.00 dY: 0.00 dZ: 0.00 standby temp: 150.00 operating temp: 200.00
Extruder: 1 dX: -42.00 dY: 0.00 dZ: 0.00 standby temp: 150.00 operating temp: 200.00
Extruder: 2 dX: -42.00 dY: -32.00 dZ: 0.00 standby temp: 150.00 operating temp: 200.00

extruders 2 and 3 are both reading really low resistance...
Any help would be appreciated, Thanks!

Hi glewis16

Sorry you are having problems with your Tricolour. Look at the settings each time you turn on the Tricolour; you must make sure that the PID and thermistor values are sensible, or reported temperatures and heater control can be wildly out. Your settings:

echo: PID settings:
echo: M301 H1 P12.00 I2.20 D80.00 W125.00
M301 H2 P125.00 I-273.00 D-273.00 W-273.00
M301 H3 P-273.00 I-273.00 D-273.00 W12.00

and...

Bed/extruder 0 beta: 3988.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 10000.00 inf: 0.02
Bed/extruder 1 beta: 4138.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 100000.00 inf: 0.09
Bed/extruder 2 beta: 2.20 resistor: 80.00 thermistor: 125.93 inf: 125.00
Bed/extruder 3 beta: 12.00 resistor: 2.20 thermistor: 83.29 inf: 80.00

The PID settings for H2 and H3 should match H1, and the Bed/extruder 2 and 3 settings should be the same as Bed/extruder 1. If they are not, it will cause the temperature readings to be incorrect, and the heating of the 2nd and 3rd extruders to be very erratic. The printer should not be used until this is fixed. This happens when the master and slave do not sync together correctly, and the slave is still sending temperatures when the master is expecting the settings. You can see that the PID settings for extruder 2 and 3 are temperatures, and the thermistor settings are the PID settings! Usually, pressing the reset button should resolve this, and the master and slave should sync correctly.

We have recently updated the master and slave firmware to help improve the communication between the two boards, and fix a bug that was exposed when we changed the value of the hot end. Update both boards with the current firmware, using the instructions here: [reprappro.com]
We are currently working on further improving this communication in the firmware, so it doesn't misinterpret the values.

Making a better master/slave communication cable, perhaps one that is shielded so cannot pick up interference, can also improve the communication.

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 09:58AM by droftarts.

Updating the firmware got everything working fine. Thank you very much!

After I updated the firmware, everything was working fine for about a week, but now I seem to be having issues with the temperature of my 2nd and 3rd hot ends again. I am seeing the "slave not working! default values are:" but I am not sure why the slave wouldn't be communicating properly. Everything is wired up the same as it has been, and I have tried reloading the newest firmware, along with resetting both the slave and the master boards.What could have gone wrong to disrupt communication between the two boards?

echoteps per unit:
echo: M92 X87.49 Y87.49 Z4000.00 E660.00
echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
echo: M203 X300.00 Y300.00 Z3.00 E45.00
echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
echo: M201 X800 Y800 Z30 E250
echo:Acceleration: S=acceleration, T=retract acceleration
echo: M204 S1000.00 T1000.00
echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum xY jerk (mm/s), Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s)
echo: M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X15.00 Z0.40 E15.00
echo: M206 X-125.00 Y-75.00 Z0.00
echoID settings:
echo: M301 H1 P19.93 I2.56 D38.86 W125.00
Slave not working! Default values are:
M301 H2 P19.93 I2.56 D38.86 W125.00
Slave not working! Default values are:
M301 H3 P19.93 I2.56 D38.86 W125.00
FPU Enabled no
Axis 0 max: 210.00 Axis 1 max: 210.00 Axis 2 max: 140.00
Bed/extruder 0 beta: 3988.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 10000.00 inf: 0.02
Bed/extruder 1 beta: 4138.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 99999.91 inf: 0.09
Bed/extruder 2 beta: 2.56 resistor: 38.86 thermistor: 126.08 inf: 125.00
Bed/extruder 3 beta: 4138.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 95891.63 inf: 0.09
Extruder: 0 dX: 0.00 dY: 0.00 dZ: 0.00 standby temp: 100.00 operating temp: 200.00
Extruder: 1 dX: -43.05 dY: -1.07 dZ: 0.00 standby temp: 100.00 operating temp: 200.00
Extruder: 2 dX: -41.90 dY: -32.62 dZ: 0.00 standby temp: 100.00 operating temp: 200.00

Hi glewis16

I think one of the thermistors is not working correctly (perhaps disconnected) on your slave board; you need to have a sensible temperature readings from both H2 AND H3, for the slave to work. There is the message in your startup code, after the PID settings "Slave not working! Default values are:". Connect the to the slave via USB to troubleshoot, as described here: [reprappro.com]

Another thing... your PID values (P19.93 I2.56 D38.86) are a bit different from the standard values (P12.00 I2.20 D80.00). Any reason you changed them?

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Hi,

it seems I have a similar issue with my Reprap Mendel TriColor:
about a week ago, after about a year doing nothing with it, I found the time to reactivate my Mendel TriColor. I uploaded current firmware to Melzi Master and Slave and I was glad as everything was working as expected.
I only had to set proper values for dx/dy for the 2nd and 3rd extruder .. so I thought.

Today I wanted to print something I had time to design (logo for maschinendeck.org - [github.com]) but pronterface suddenly stopped with message like 'cold extrusion prevented'

After investigation what happend I saw the following output from master:

echo:Marlin 1.0.8 RRP
echo: Last Updated: 2014-06-02 | Author: RepRapPro - AB
echo: Free Memory: 10882  PlannerBufferBytes: 1232
Slave init. Please wait ...
.Slave ready
 Firmware version: V10, EEPROM version: V10
ok p:12.00 i:2.20 d:80.00 w:125
echotored settings retreived:
echoteps per unit:
echo:  M92 X87.49 Y87.49 Z4000.00 E660.00
echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
echo:  M203 X300.00 Y300.00 Z3.00 E45.00
echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
echo:  M201 X800 Y800 Z30 E250
echo:Acceleration: S=acceleration, T=retract acceleration
echo:  M204 S1000.00 T1000.00
echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum xY jerk (mm/s),  Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s)
echo:  M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X15.00 Z0.40 E15.00
echo:  M206 X-45.00 Y-10.00 Z0.00
echoID settings:
echo:   M301 H1 P12.00 I2.20 D80.00 W125.00
   M301 H2 P12.00 I2.20 D80.00 W125.00
   M301 H3 P12.00 I2.20 D80.00 W125.00
 FPU Enabled no
 Axis 0 max: 210.00 Axis 1 max: 210.00 Axis 2 max: 140.00
 Bed/extruder 0 beta: 3988.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 10000.00 inf: 0.02
 Bed/extruder 1 beta: 4138.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 99999.91 inf: 0.09

 Bed/extruder 2 beta: 2.20 resistor: 80.00 thermistor: 125.93 inf: 125.00
 Bed/extruder 3 beta: 12.00 resistor: 2.20 thermistor: 83.29 inf: 80.00

 Extruder: 0 dX: 0.00 dY: 0.00 dZ: 0.00 standby temp: 150.00 operating temp: 185.00
 Extruder: 1 dX: -46.00 dY: 0.00 dZ: 0.00 standby temp: 150.00 operating temp: 185.00
 Extruder: 2 dX: -46.00 dY: -36.00 dZ: 0.00 standby temp: 150.00 operating temp: 185.00
transform correction not enabledechoD card ok

I _know_ about a week ago the values for Bed/Extruder 2 / 3 were OK.
Nothing has changed in wiring, etc. .. Mendel just sat on the living room table ..

the slave has the folllowing output: (CR by me for better readability)

RepRapPro slave controller Version 1.2, 2014-06-02 restarted.
 Temps:25.52 24.54 

Received: t0
Sent temp: 25.52 for extruder 0

Received: t1
Sent temp: 24.54 for extruder 1


Received: J012.0000
Set Kp to: 12.00

Received: K02.2000
Set Ki to: 2.20

Received: L080.0000
Set Kd to: 80.00

Received: V0125.0000
Set w to: 125.00


Received: J112.0000
Set Kp to: 12.00

Received: K12.2000
Set Ki to: 2.20

Received: L180.0000
Set Kd to: 80.00

Received: V1125.0000
Set w to: 125.00


Received: E02.2
Set eBeta to: 2.20

Received: R080.0
Set eRs to: 80.00

Received: I0125.000000
Set eRInf to: 125.00


Received: E112.0
Set eBeta to: 12.00

Received: R12.2
Set eRs to: 2.20

Received: I180.000000
Set eRInf to: 80.00


Received: j0
Sent Kp: 12.00

Received: k0
Sent Ki: 0.27

Received: l0
Sent Kd: 655.74

Received: v0
Sent W: 125.00


Received: j1
Sent Kp: 12.00

Received: k1
Sent Ki: 0.27

Received: l1
Sent Kd: 655.74

Received: v1
Sent W: 125.00


Received: e0
Sent eBeta: 2.20

Received: r0
Sent eRs: 80.00

Received: i0
Sent eRInf: 125.00


Received: e1
Sent eBeta: 12.00

Received: r1
Sent eRs: 2.20

Received: i1
Sent eRInf: 80.00


ERROR: temp bounds exceeded
ERROR: temp bounds exceeded

I checked wiring, I checked thermistors with multimeter .. everything hardware-related looks ok to me .. I read about 5.6kOhm (connected to slave)

Any Ideas?

Regards and thanks in advance,
Christian Adams

Hi Christian

Your hot end thermistor settings are getting garbled:

Bed/extruder 0 beta: 3988.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 10000.00 inf: 0.02
Bed/extruder 1 beta: 4138.00 resistor: 4700.00 thermistor: 99999.91 inf: 0.09
Bed/extruder 2 beta: 2.20 resistor: 80.00 thermistor: 125.93 inf: 125.00
Bed/extruder 3 beta: 12.00 resistor: 2.20 thermistor: 83.29 inf: 80.00

I've updated the troubleshooting page with the usual resolution for this: [reprappro.com]
Let me know if that helps.

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Hi Ian,

thanks for your fast reply.
This and then the reading of [github.com] helped to get proper thermistor settings to the EPROM (where the wrong values were saved for a yet unknown reason).

Here you can see my successfully printed maschinendeck.org Logo: [plus.google.com]

Next run will be white base and black circuits and 'M'.

Regards,
Christian

Mine wasn't a Tricolour with the Melzis for very long but I was getting a lot of comm errors and EEPROM overwrites. Commenting the line that echoes the extruder temperatures back to the console out of the M109 code seemed to dramatically improve things for me. It was a frustrating fix because that's nice and occasionally important info to have, but that was my experience.