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Stepper issue <with video link of problem>

Posted by WalkerMaker 
Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
September 25, 2016 04:53PM
Hello,

I have a pain in the butt problem that I can't seem to fix for the life of me. Here is the link to to problem
[www.youtube.com]

Please let me know if anyone has seen this problem before?
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
September 26, 2016 04:25AM
Some questions:

1. Why are you using external stepper drivers at all, when it appears to me that the electronics you are using is capable of driving those motors directly?

2. Why are you driving 1.68A motors at 2.5A? That is a recipe for burning them out. I suggest 1.5A.

3. What power supply voltage are you using for the stepper drivers?

4. Are the two XY motors identical? If you swap them over, does the problem move with the motor?

5. If you swap the drivers over, does the problem move with the driver?

6. Are they 1.8 or 0.9deg/step motors?

In the absence of more information, and assuming no firmware bugs, my best guess is the product of steps/mm and acceleration configured in the firmware is too high for the motors to overcome the rotor inertia.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
September 26, 2016 06:22PM
In my opinion, interfering with step or dir lines, with anything, might not be a good idea. Any logic you put there will just add delay for rise time, logic processing and output, and that could be / might become an issue. These lines are supposed to be sort of realitime, there is no feedback loop for delays on those lines, when the firmware sends a step signal then it considers it executed "as is". If you put delays on them, issues can arise.

Maybe its simpler in your case, maybe inside those black cases might be some TB drivers which are known for reading step signal in a slower manner. Might need step timings in ms while the allegro chips usually in hundreds of us. In general the driver IC might read a step signal differently from one manufacturer to another. Some IC might read a step when the signal goes from low to high and then stays high for a predetermined amount of time, or some other IC might read same thing on the inverse function, on the fall time and if the stays like so again for a certain time. From what i recall some TB (toshiba) drivers, some time back, those needed longer step timings in order to be interpreted correctly.

I dont know how that firmware is, but if you can find some config which would "elongate" the step signal or otherwise some setting for the minimum step interval, those would be my first things to play with. Coz at slow speed it seems ok, but the faster it goes then it appears that it does not read the step signals correctly. Ofc, it would help if you can put a scope on the step line too, coz who knows, maybe some capacitance dont drain out fast enough so a high impedance mode would keep the line high, anyway could be also a hardware issue from your logic, an issue that appears at high frequency only. The hardware side is certainly not out of question. And if you can find the exact IC in those boxes, then read its datasheet about the inputs, maybe it takes 3v3 too for "VIH"? Tried that? In general, i think for the best, if you have 3v3 logic then should use drivers which are advertised to take those levels as signal inputs. In the area of realtime fast freq signals like step line, the idea of level switching to me appears to be very very "less than ideal", sort of speaking.
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
September 27, 2016 07:58PM
Once again

I got a problem

I won't tell you what the hardware detail is (motor type desig, driver type)
I won't tell you electronic controller I am using (arduino, babbage machine)
I won't tell you the firmware / software I am using
I won't tell you what commands I am sending
I won't tell you parameters in firmware / EEPROM
I am using a totally non-traditional set up my unkle Veto showed me off his WWI destroyer

Here is a crappy video of the problem, that shows no detail.

hey anybody can solve it?

angry smiley

Come on help us out a bit?
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
September 28, 2016 10:58PM
For the sake of a response, I believe the problem is resolved. I was actually able to cut out the logic converters, and the 3.3v from my Smoothieboard work on the stepper drivers. I'm using the drivers to push 2.5 amps to my steppers. Why? Because freedom. Also, it was recommended by the supplier when I querried. Also, my 3D printer will have cnc capability, so I want the strength.

The main solution however seems to have been reducing the microstepping on the drivers. Doesn't make sense to me though because I have to run at 1/16th micro stepping while the smoothie should be capable of higher. Hell, maybe it just boils down to that I got the stepper drivers from China and they aren't capable of higher levels of microstepping despite the labling. It's nice to have them working, but still dissatisfied to not know the exact reason...
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
September 28, 2016 11:01PM
They are TB drivers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2016 11:02PM by WalkerMaker.
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
September 28, 2016 11:38PM
Are they TB6600 drivers? They are known to have several problems, including that they actually only provide about 1/2 the current that the switch chart shows and that the microstepping chart is wrong. Do a search...


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
October 19, 2016 03:53PM
Hi everybody,
I am new to this thing, didn't know where to post my problem, so here I am.

So this is the board I bought MKS Base v1.1, and I want to build a 3D printer, but a big one, that is why i also purchased stepper motors that are rated to 3A each.
My question is, how can I hook it up with this stepper driver???

This driver is a TB6600.
Thank you for eventual answers and sorry if I posted in the wrong thread.
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
October 19, 2016 08:14PM
You cant easily use a MKS Base v1.1 controller board. It already has stepper drivers on it, and it doesn't break out the step,direct or enabled lines for each stepper driver.

The only way you can use this is if your really good at soldering and can solder onto the stepper driver pins. (or the 2560 cpu pins)


Another option is you could update the firmware pins definitions and move the steppers control pins to the expansion ports. (can't have a lcd as well)

Ether way this is a "crappy" job

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2016 08:15PM by Dust.
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
October 19, 2016 11:11PM
A SmoothieBoard has the pins for external driver connections (as do a few other boards that cost a little more).

The driver in your photo looks like one of the problematic TB6600 units. I suggest you look into it.

This is the sort of trouble you can run into when you search for and buy the cheapest of everything. Now, unless you go to the expense of replacing all the stuff you bought, you have several hours of work to do to get it all working together. If and when you get it working, how long will it keep working and how much trouble will it be to fix problems? Did you really save that much money?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2016 11:11PM by the_digital_dentist.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
October 19, 2016 11:24PM
Tb6600 needs afaik 5us high signal. So be careful that your firmware can handle this and has some config which will slow down your controller to achieve it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2016 11:25PM by Wurstnase.


Triffid Hunter's Calibration Guide --> X <-- Drill for new Monitor Most important Gcode.
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
October 20, 2016 09:37AM
Quote
the_digital_dentist
A SmoothieBoard has the pins for external driver connections (as do a few other boards that cost a little more).

So does the Duet 0.8.5, which costs somewhat less - and you can use 4 external drivers as well as the 5 on-board drivers. So in a large 3D printer you can use external drivers for the XYZ axes and the internal drivers for exrtruders.

Quote
the_digital_dentist
The driver in your photo looks like one of the problematic TB6600 units. I suggest you look into it

DD, can you elaborate - what are the problems?



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
October 20, 2016 01:00PM
Quote
dc42
Quote
the_digital_dentist
The driver in your photo looks like one of the problematic TB6600 units. I suggest you look into it

DD, can you elaborate - what are the problems?

Quote
Wurstnase
Tb6600 needs afaik 5us high signal. So be careful that your firmware can handle this and has some config which will slow down your controller to achieve it.

Most controllers are too fast and have a high signal of maybe 1µs or less.


Triffid Hunter's Calibration Guide --> X <-- Drill for new Monitor Most important Gcode.
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
October 20, 2016 05:31PM
Quote
Wurstnase
Quote
dc42
Quote
the_digital_dentist
The driver in your photo looks like one of the problematic TB6600 units. I suggest you look into it

DD, can you elaborate - what are the problems?

Quote
Wurstnase
Tb6600 needs afaik 5us high signal. So be careful that your firmware can handle this and has some config which will slow down your controller to achieve it.

Most controllers are too fast and have a high signal of maybe 1µs or less.

Thanks. The Duet and Duet WiFi do generate pulses shorter than 1us by default, but provide an option to lengthen it in the M569 command. However, extending the pulse width to 5us will limit the step rate to 100kHz on those drivers.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
October 20, 2016 07:37PM
Here's one 3 year old link: [forum.planet-cnc.com]
and another: [www.cnczone.com]

I bought one of the Chinese TB6600 divers last year (before I knew about any of this) and it has the same problems, 2 years after the linked posts. These things are made by a bunch of different Chinese companies all of whom copy each other (probably no engineers at any of the companies).

You can set pulse length to any value you want in smoothieware. I believe it defaults to 1 us, but if you're using external drivers, just set the pulse duration to 5 us in the config file and you're good to go.


Son of MegaMax 3D printer: [www.instructables.com]
Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Stepper issue <with video link of problem>
October 21, 2016 08:26AM
Thank you all for your response regarding this matter, I'm king of in a hurry right now, but I will look into the solution you gave me and return with the result.
Thank you very much again!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2016 08:27AM by Adryan.
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