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First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build

Posted by Tired2 
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 09, 2014 09:08AM
How is it going did you get your order on Friday hopefully you get it moving to try to estimate torque. Like I said I'm going through my supplies and I tested a Neema 23 I had KL23H-266 – 20 – 6A with the standard smaller ramps driver and it worked remarkably well no fan just heatsink very smooth and quiet and cool on the driver chip. And supposedly rated for 166 ounce inch at 1.5 amp

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2014 09:12AM by cnc dick.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 09, 2014 06:28PM
Hey.

I did get my order, all is well, but I forgot that I had to go with 6mm drive pulleys instead of the 1/4" that I needed due to lack of offerings in that size with a 1/4" shaft. I can't risk hand drilling them and getting the holes non-concentric, so I have to wait to start moving things until I get to work tomorrow morning to chuck it up in the lathe.

I got the Z Axis going a few nights ago, one of the motors was skipping steps at 1/2 current, so I had to bring it up the rest of the way to 2.5A. With a big fan on it they still get warm to the touch, but not too bad. That is on about 16v, because when I'm at 24v, I get a nasty squeal. It could be induced by my variable psu, but I'm not sure until I try another 24v supply. The Z axis is pretty tight, and not exactly super precision, and I've got no lube on the delrin nuts as of yet.

I did also get it "running" full G-code last night, with X and Y disconnected, but it seems to be reliable so far. The E axis on 1/32 stepping will not always turn, so I'll be trying other microstep settings. I have Z at 1/2stepping for now, X and Y at 1/32 with no problem.

So, hopefully more this week coming up, but in the short term, here are some photos smiling smiley




Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 09, 2014 07:19PM
Actually if you had an old quarter inch hand reamer it would work just fine they follow the whole as true as it is to begin with. I was surprised how smooth that Nema 23 I tested ran I had it set for about 1.2amp
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 09, 2014 08:39PM
I don't have a reamer sad smiley np though the lathe will do fine. Did you buy a ramps setup or just a driver to drive from the pc?
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 09, 2014 10:39PM
Yes I bought a whole reprap board set up with four drivers for 59 bucks free shipping to start playing with to see if I could get it to perform the way I like. Not bad considering beside a few fasteners I think I pretty much have everything else to build one on hand. And I also bought a hot end I can build one from scratch but for the money it is just easier to buy one. I do have a lathe and a small cnc mill that I built in my cellar

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2014 10:41PM by cnc dick.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 10, 2014 10:27AM
I agree. For the price of the E3D hot ends, its almost not worth getting all dirty. Plus you have to source all the material and whatnot if you don't have stock laying around. Some things are just better done in bulk.

The pulleys fit now. I reamed it to .25 after this C bit. I grabbed it on the shoulder/shank part instead of the flange so it was more concentric. It seemed to go just fine.



I'll try to get a video tonight of the X Axis moving at rate. Any speeds/accel/etc you want me to test to help out your build? Y axis will have to wait on my bed to come in and the last two machined parts that I'll do this week sometime.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 10:28AM by Tired2.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 11, 2014 09:54AM
Alright, first moves with the new belts are working!

I started to shoot a quick video of it... and I thought, I have 2 hours, I'll just make a new video in my series. Here it is:

The first 15 minutes is the workflow from Cura to Octoprint, but I start moving it around 16 minutes if you are already familiar with those tools.


Evan's DIY 3D Printer / Mill - EP3 - Cura, Octoprint, and Motion Tests! :


In hindsight I should have messed with acceleration more. Here were my Marlin settings:

#define DEFAULT_MAX_ACCELERATION {9000,9000,100,10000} // X, Y, Z, E maximum start speed for accelerated moves. E default values are good for skeinforge 40+, for older versions raise them a lot.
#define DEFAULT_ACCELERATION 3000 // X, Y, Z and E max acceleration in mm/s^2 for printing moves

EDIT: Actually with this Accel (3000mm/s^2), I would have made 500mm/s by about 40mm into the move.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2014 05:45PM by Tired2.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 14, 2014 10:23AM
Small update:

Machining is done! (At least until I find out something I've made won't work). I've assumed my e3d hot end CAD model is accurate without having the actual unit, so here's hoping. I may have to tolerance out the mount a bit, but I'm holding off until my head gets here. I undersized it about .25mm accidentally.

Here are the parts, I still need to clean them up with some 120 grit.



E3D Hot in the mail from filastruder, a US distributor.

2 1kg rolls of PLA 1.75mm are in the mail from Monoprice. One black and one white.

Bowden push lock M5 to 4mm OD fittings are in the mail from McMaster.

I just have to get the base plate, and some bearings for the extruder and put it the rest of the way together. And lots of wiring of course.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 17, 2014 09:24AM
Any more progress if I were you when your setting it up don't use the black black is a catchall for re-grind and scrap a lot of impurities usually .Use the white when your first start printing natural color is even better than that. Keep us informed you have a nice sturdy small machine
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 17, 2014 10:28AM
I was told it was a good size.

Thanks for the advice on the black, I'll start with white. Monoprice does not have natural, so I'll have to catch it somewhere else.

The E3D hot end came in. I was going to assemble it last night, but I wanted to do a video on it and I was just too tired. I also realized the thermistor it came with looks like a pain to keep from shorting on itself and the case (non insulated hair thin leads). I bought a few spare epocs 100k's with my Azteeg because I thought they would be good to have. They look like they will work a lot better... insulated leads and whatnot, but they are a bit larger, so I need to drill the hot end thermistor hole out today, and actually add another hole. I'm going redundant thermistors just because the firmware already supports it and I already have 2 thermistors and whatnot.

I think I've misplaced my bowden tube. I may need to order a new one :-/. The push-locks will be in today, and the filament on Wednesday, so I can start setting up and mounting the extruder near the top of the machine (I have a plan for that).

So, I should get the hot end together and installed (it fits my mount actually), and the extruder mounted shortly thereafter, but then I'm out of town so it will be late next week at least before I can get the Y axis done. I have no bed plate yet, my buddy is cutting them for me.

Test fitting the E3D hot end:

Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 19, 2014 11:45AM
Small Update:

Hot end wired on the hot end side, and mounted up.

I had to order a new bowden tube, so that is not in the photo, but it comes out of the brass piece on the top. White wire is for future use for a bed probe hobby servo and future upgrades.

No power yet, and I'm leaving town for a few days sad smiley



Still to go: Spool mounting system, extruder mount (top back near spools), temporary wire terminating, Plexi Bed machining / mounting, heated bed wiring. Then of course all the cleanup and wire routing once I figure out where the electronics and power supply are going.

2 or 3 more videos shot last night, but I won't have time to edit for a while.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2014 11:47AM by Tired2.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 21, 2014 09:04PM
Tired,
Looks like you are doing nice clean build, very professional looking.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 23, 2014 11:33PM
Thanks Gary.

I'm back in town, and I made some progress tonight. The extruder is together, but currently mounted lower than I really wanted, so I may need to try something different. I wanted to hang the spools up there, one on each side, but if I get them low enough to feed correctly they will be in the build area, so that won't work. I'll see what else I can come up with. Luckily the extrusion allows some flexibility with the mounting. If you look closely you can also see the plexiglass bed is cut to size and ready to be machined. I'll get to that later this week I hope.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2014 11:44PM by Tired2.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 24, 2014 09:42PM
Self Plug:

I posted a new video in my build series on belt tensioning:

Evan's DIY 3D Printer / Mill - EP4 - Belt Tension. Sound + Math = Bearings that Last.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 26, 2014 07:22AM
Hi Tired2, I really like your project as I'm going in the same direction with mine (if you don't mind, give me some thoughts: [forums.reprap.org]).
As I'm in the need of good power for the NEMA 23 I found out these step drivers: [www.massmind.org]
also have a look at these: [www.pibot.com]
Maybe they can suit well also for your motors. smiling smiley

For the X,Y axises' belts I'm going to use ATL type. For what I've read they are steel reinforced and like zero backlash.
I will follow your project, good printing! thumbs up


---- "Let me make my move" ----
# Un progetto di stampante multifunzione ## I commenti sono benvenuti #
# ATM planning a multifunction printer with aluminum extrusions ## Comments and thoughts are welcome #
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 26, 2014 10:48AM
Thanks Gordie,

I have been looking over your post, but I have not had much time to really dig in, I've been busy with my project.

I'm not familiar with ATL belts, but I'm sure that is a fine choice.

As for the drivers, both selections you made seem good to me. I know my drivers are on the small side, so an upgrade may be worked out in the future. I left a lot of torque on the table due to undersized drivers. They still work well, and they have a nice small package, but I may have to upgrade in the future.

Updates:

I go the hot end wired up, heated to 290C, and tightened down. Now I just have to machine some holes in my plexi bed plate, mount up the belts and belt block, and work out a way to mount up the spool(s). I got the extruder mounted, but I"m not sure I am happy with the location it ended up at, the original goal was to have the spools up top on each side, but the angle going into the extruder is not ideal where it all ended up, so I may just rig something for now and work it out later in CAD instead.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 26, 2014 01:05PM
Wow very impressive, it looks professional smiling smiley great job!


"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible alors ils l'ont fait!" Mark Twain
[DOC][CONFIG] Hauteur de couche (Layer height)
Lautr3k - A 3D printer without belts
iTopie - A Swissmade RepRap
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 26, 2014 02:00PM
Quote
skarab
Wow very impressive, it looks professional smiling smiley great job!

Thanks. Extrusion + Stainless Hardware + Rustoleum textured black paint will make anything look good.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 27, 2014 03:18PM
My lunch break today:

Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
March 30, 2014 11:40PM
I fabbed up my new extruder mount bar. The distance from the extruder's exit and the first place it was contained axially was about 2 inches or so, and I think that was too much for it and it buckled and got jammed up.

After that I realized I was gripping it too tight in the bearing/hobbed bolt interface, which caused it to turn oval and add a lot more friction in the bowden tube. It is working well now, new shorter "unsupported" path to the PTFE is short enough to keep the filament rigid when it is jammed in there. It seems to be working now, and is even able to spin the spool inside the box it came in.



Also, New youtbe video for those of you following that series.

Evan's DIY 3D Printer / Mill - EP5 A - E3D Hot End Build / Modify

(Part B up soon).

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2014 11:47PM by Tired2.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 01, 2014 07:45AM
How's it going you must have done some test prints this weekend keep us up to date
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 01, 2014 10:38AM
I had to go back into 'car' mode this weekend, fixing up the project car, oil changes, etc, so not much printer work got done.

I could have probably printed by now, but I realized when I went to mount my bed plate that the CAD model I used for the template that I used to drill and counterbore the plexi was wrong. Somehow in a re-draw of the base plate I got the bearing block holes off by 90 degrees. They are 30mm x 39mm, and I had the dims backwards. I did not notice before I made the print and drilled it out.

Luckily my "source" has a pile of these tiles left, so I'll be cutting a new one this week when time permits.

Also, I found that I was pushing too hard on the hobbed bolt, which caused the filament to go oblong and get stuck in the bowden tube. With that worked out now, the extruder is calibrated, the hot end wired and tuned, and I can make .4mm filament out of 1.75mm filament, so that is a small victory.

I have a few more videos on the way on those topics that I'll post when I'm done editing and uploading. (Editing takes a bit of time from my build as well).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2014 10:40AM by Tired2.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 02, 2014 12:42AM
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 04, 2014 12:19AM
This is a good feeling....





This was the very first print (and only to date, I'm shutting down for the night).

I had to heat the bed with a heat gun to get it to stick, and slow it down to 60mm/sec to get the extruder to not jam (possibly just a temperature issue or something).

Anyway, back to making videos. I'm 2 behind on the editing.

Suggestions on troubleshooting the build are welcome, though I have not recently re-read the calibration procedures, so I need to look into that myself some. I did get E steps pretty close though, so this may be just a temperature thing, or issues a true heated bed will fix.

(60mm/sec, 0.1mm layer height, 200C hot end with monoprice PLA)
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 04, 2014 09:47AM
For calibration, I typically start with extrusion temp using this. Them move to extruder steps/mm, then x/y steps/mm and scaling.

Also, you don't have to print in 0.1mm for calibration. I typically do 0.2 just for a happy medium between speed and resolution.

Lastly, I know the E3D sometimes has problems with PLA (I know mine did). So keep that in mind if you end up having a tough time getting it dialed in.


greghoge.com

HUGE 3D PRINTER PARTS SALE!!!
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 04, 2014 01:38PM
Thanks smiling smiley
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 04, 2014 02:47PM
You can print much any layer height below the nozzle size but the best place to start is between 60 and 75% of nozzle diameter. Did you get the standard nozzle diameter from E3D. printing at a low layer height like that causes a lot of pressure on the feed mechanism and causes stripping because it's trying to push too hard I definitely would go about 75% of nozzle diameter and speed it up with PLA. And you definitely need a fan blowing air on the part especially on small parts because the PLA never gets to cool enough before the second layer comes over. Many times when you print something fairly small with PLA print multiples so that individual parts have enough time to cool

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2014 02:55PM by cnc dick.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 08, 2014 12:52AM
CNC_Dick,

Thanks, I'll try that out. I had trouble finding out if a fan on the part was ideal or not. Should the bed turn off after the first few layers?

I broke the glass I was using, which I figured might happen. I have some 3/16" x 10 x 10" borosilicate glass on the way, hopefully it will arrive tomorrow.

Can you print on bare glass with a heater, or does everyone use painters tape or hair spray?
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 08, 2014 07:46AM
I don't have that much experience with PLA I usually use ABS with PLA a fan on the part is pretty much required. As far as printing on glass some people do use watered down Elmer's glue hairspray glue stick and a few others. Fan has to be turned off when you print with ABS and obviously a heated bed. With PLA in small protrusions like and antenna or anything that would cause a very short layer time is a problem some slicers have a minimum layer time setting. But even then it would be worth it to print more than one part if it's small enough that you can. I'm throwing together a smaller printer now out of stuff I already had laying around I had 90% of the pieces parts. When I say smaller I mean smaller than my big floorstanding machine more portable close to 12 x 12 x 12 build area

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2014 07:47AM by cnc dick.
Re: First Printer, 225mm^3 printer / mill combo build
April 10, 2014 12:56AM
I got my new borosilicate glass. It was about $33 from McMaster Carr, 10x10"x3/16". I have a few new cubes to show of the last few hours, but they are hourglassing a bit and curling up. I'm taking CNC_Dick's advice on adding a "part cooling" fan. I have it rigged up, but I got held up on wiring when I realized I don't have the pinout to enable new fan outputs and such, so I needed to handle that. I had to go to the schematic for Azteeg X3 pro, since I could not find a pinout anywhere of which DIO pins go to where. It looks like even though the X3 Pro is defined as a motherboard in Marlin, most of the additional features and outputs are not defined anywhere, so you may have to hack marlin up a bit to use them all. I'll see how it goes.

The "HE" outputs (hotend) are 8 "medium" current outputs, used to drive fans and LEDs and such. Here are the pin numbers I pulled off the schematic after installing a freeware version of "DipTrace". I'm just glad they provided the schematic somehow.

I made PDFs of the Azteeg X3 Pro Schematics, attached. (I hope they don't mind???, schematic file from here: [files.panucatt.com])

I pulled the HE# Pinouts for the hot end outputs if it helps anyone.:

D10 - HE1
D9 - HE2
D16 - HE3
D17 - HE4
D4 - HE5
D11 - HE8
D6 - HE7
D5 - HE6

In other news, 2 new videos are up! (If you are not yet a subscriber smiling smiley )

Evan's DIY 3D Printer / Mill - EP7 - Extruder Calibration

Evan's DIY 3D Printer / Mill - EP8 - Filament Extruder

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2014 12:57AM by Tired2.
Attachments:
open | download - DipTrace Schematic - AZTEEG X3 PRO 1.0 PUB 3.pdf (48.4 KB)
open | download - DipTrace Schematic - AZTEEG X3 PRO 1.0 PUB 2.pdf (79.2 KB)
open | download - DipTrace Schematic - AZTEEG X3 PRO 1.0 PUB.pdf (168.3 KB)
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