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Building a 3DR "Simple"

Posted by brendanjerwin 
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 24, 2014 11:56PM
Does it really matter? Each axis should be the same geometry and identical.


greghoge.com

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Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 25, 2014 01:50AM
Quote
gmh39
Does it really matter? Each axis should be the same geometry and identical.

It only matters insofar as your firmware definitions match what you're talking about physically. I'm just going by the RichRap original tower definitions. If you switch X/Y for example, you'd end up with a mirror image of what you intend to make - which could be a little bit confusing!
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 25, 2014 06:20PM
Alright, I'm at a bit of a lose here.

I'm trying to get the delta radius set but things just aren't making sense.

With these settings (I know, horrible things done to the smooth rod offset):

// Center-to-center distance of the holes in the diagonal push rods.
#define DELTA_DIAGONAL_ROD 200.0 // mm | 200 mm as built

// Horizontal offset from middle of printer to smooth rod center.
#define DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET 155.0 // mm | 135.518 mm from CAD

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on the end effector.
#define DELTA_EFFECTOR_OFFSET 22.872 // mm  | 22.872 mm from CAD

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on t  he carriages.
#define DELTA_CARRIAGE_OFFSET 16.5 // mm | 16.5 mm from blog on first design

It goes right to the center at 0-height when I execute:
G0 F8000 X0 X0 Z0

But it goes just a hair off the side of the bed and ~6mm above the bed when I execute this:
G0 F8000 X-58 Y-34 Z0

I've been _increasing_ the smooth rod offset to try and get the heights at the center and edge on the same plane, but all it seems to be doing is pushing the thing further to the side. (It makes sense that it would too, but I guess I need to know what to adjust to get the heights on the same plane.)
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 25, 2014 06:24PM
G0 F8000 X-58 Y-34 Z0
That should but the effector in front of the X tower. Does it?

You set the endstop offsets (M666 in Marlin or whatever it is in Repetier FW) at a point in front of each tower before you mess with the DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET value.

[minow.blogspot.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 06:25PM by jaydmdigital.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 25, 2014 06:35PM
Yes, it puts it right in front of the tower.

The issue I was having while following that (or a very similar) routine, was that when I got the end to 0.1 above the bed at the towers (using M666), it would crash into the center of the bed...

As I adjusted smooth rod offset up to compensate, it wouldn't make enough of a difference.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 25, 2014 06:43PM
Hmmm. I just re-read that blog post on configuration and I think I've been going the wrong direction with my adjustment of smooth rod offset...

Lemme try again.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 25, 2014 07:16PM
Quote
brendanjerwin
Alright, I'm at a bit of a lose here.

I'm trying to get the delta radius set but things just aren't making sense.

With these settings (I know, horrible things done to the smooth rod offset):

// Center-to-center distance of the holes in the diagonal push rods.
#define DELTA_DIAGONAL_ROD 200.0 // mm | 200 mm as built

// Horizontal offset from middle of printer to smooth rod center.
#define DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET 155.0 // mm | 135.518 mm from CAD

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on the end effector.
#define DELTA_EFFECTOR_OFFSET 22.872 // mm  | 22.872 mm from CAD

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on t  he carriages.
#define DELTA_CARRIAGE_OFFSET 16.5 // mm | 16.5 mm from blog on first design

It goes right to the center at 0-height when I execute:
G0 F8000 X0 X0 Z0

But it goes just a hair off the side of the bed and ~6mm above the bed when I execute this:
G0 F8000 X-58 Y-34 Z0

I've been _increasing_ the smooth rod offset to try and get the heights at the center and edge on the same plane, but all it seems to be doing is pushing the thing further to the side. (It makes sense that it would too, but I guess I need to know what to adjust to get the heights on the same plane.)

I think that is because the bed is not translated into a completely flat circle in the firmware (or something like that). I remember when I had my Rostock MAX, you had to calibrate it for the theoretical bed curvature.

There is a pretty in depth guide on the SeeMeCNC website about setting up their delta printers. It should basically apply to every delta printer.


greghoge.com

HUGE 3D PRINTER PARTS SALE!!!
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 25, 2014 07:53PM
Good news! By carefully reading the blog here I was able to get the heights at all 4 points pretty damn close.

Thanks jaydmdigital for that. I was adjusting in the wrong direction, that's why things made so little sense.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 25, 2014 09:03PM
OK, first print happened!

Decided I needed to wire up the fan, but it didn't work.

After some research I found that I needed to set the fan pin to 16 instead of 22. That fixed it.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 25, 2014 11:34PM
E steps / mm were way off. Seeing as I just stole some values from a random repository of AirTripper's I wasn't surprised.

Measured and set them more correctly at 97/mm. That'll do well enough to keep calibrating.


Now I'm printing a 20X20 test shape pretty well. It's measuring out to be right around 20mm on both sides (20.1X20.5). But, it seems skewed in one direction.

The print is not exactly centered on the bed (Repetier doesn't seem to want to do that when "center" is pressed.), so I wonder if that is why it is skewed in a particular direction...

Any pointers on removing the skew?
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 26, 2014 12:13AM
Here are the numbers that I get directly from my SolidWorks files:

#define DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET 133.54 // mm
#define DELTA_EFFECTOR_OFFSET 22.87 // mm
#define DELTA_CARRIAGE_OFFSET 16.5

The first number is a little smaller because the image in my blog post on firmware settings isn't correct. It should be the distance from the rods to the plane through the center, not to the center itself. I'll update my blog post and this should become clearer. In any event, the value of 133.54 is the correct value to use as a starting point. Your actual value will depend on how well your printer is calibrated, so you'll most like need to change this value a little to ensure the head stays the same distance from the build plate throughout it's travel.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 26, 2014 12:58AM
Now that is just weird.

I printed a 50mm tall tower. The first ~14mm of it skewed toward my Z tower but the rest of it printed pretty well true.

I wonder if that might actually be something with the spool on that axis.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 26, 2014 01:03AM
Thanks JohnSL.

My calibration was heading toward that number (I was .5 off). I'll try again with exactly that number since I'm pretty confident in the quality of my parts.


I see that my z tower top frame is 3mm higher (in relation to the aluminum extrusion) than the other 2 towers. I suspect that is the source of my skew.

I'll fix that and try the exact numbers from the CAD files tomorrow.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 01:03AM by brendanjerwin.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 26, 2014 01:05AM
Another thing.

I slowed down my homing speed even more. Now its 70*60.

I think it might be knocking the end-stops too hard and messing with the height calibration.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 26, 2014 10:49AM
After adjusting the Z-Tower top to be the same height as the other two, the skew problem has gotten better, but not eliminated.

Now what I'm seeing is a slight amount of skew, still towards the Z-Tower, only happening about 8mm up the print from the bottom. After about 8mm, the skew stops and things seem pretty normal.

It seems that in the area of the skew, in the direction of the skew, things are just a bit oversized as well.

I suppose I could try pushing the top of the Z-Tower down further, since that did affect this problem before, but at the moment it is pretty much dead on the same height as the other 2 towers...

Any suggestions?
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 27, 2014 08:24AM
I've ordered a set of the machined spools in the hopes that what I'm seeing is due to errors in my printed spools.


Looking here, and specifically at:




Makes me think that, if the problem is errors in my spools, I should see a difference in the affect by printing the object closer to the edge of my print area. I'll test that tonight.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 27, 2014 12:45PM
Here is an example of the problem:




Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 27, 2014 05:21PM
My theory on the skew: DELTA_DIAGONAL_ROD is wrong. This would cause the X-Y symmetry to be maintained but skew Z.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 27, 2014 06:57PM
I'm pretty sure I found the problem!

I decided to examine the bot a lot more closely after re-re-re-measuring the tower heights and found this:



That looks a bit warped, huh?

Took it apart and this is the platform:



So, I'm going to print another one in ABS at a fairly high infill density and try that.


I did a couple of test prints without the fan, so maybe that caused it? In either case, this is pretty surely the source of my weirdness.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 07:03PM by brendanjerwin.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 27, 2014 10:08PM
Finally got the replacement printed in ABS with no curling...



Sheesh, PLA is so much easier to work with!


EDIT:
Well, it actually warped a little even with the ears... It's not much at all, so I'll give it a go anyway.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 10:12PM by brendanjerwin.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 27, 2014 11:58PM
Much better now!

Also, it turns out the as-designed numbers for the measurements are dead on!

I'm doing the last bit of calibration now to make sure my rods are right at 200mm as well.

Edit: They are.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2014 12:00AM by brendanjerwin.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 28, 2014 02:15AM
Hmmm. It turns out the totally warped and deformed platform was _not_ the cause of the strange skewing.

After I got it all back together with the new platform, and got it re-calibrated, I tried the 50mm tower again. It had the same skewing...

I've decided to start adjusting the top of the z-tower again. I've adjusted it to ~18mm, as apposed to the other tower's ~20mm.

Those adjustments produced these results:



Better, but the affect seems to be getting less. My new theory is that the issue isn't actually the height of the top, but rather that the linear rods on the z-tower are being flexed. Letting off the top reduced the flex. So, I've twisted them a bit and am trying the print again.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 28, 2014 02:19AM
In other news: I've added active cooling to my extruder stepper, since it is under a good bit of load all the time:



A heatsink and fan are epoxied on with heatsink epoxy and a 40C N.O bimetal switch is wired in and epoxied on. When the stepper gets to 40C, the fan kicks on and cools it down.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 30, 2014 10:02PM
What's the sequence for getting the updated firmware onto the Printrboard? I've got the latest version of Marlin with the necessary modifications, it compiles in the Arduino environment, then what?

I've updated the Printrboard with precompiled binaries from Printrbot before which required toggling a jumper pin on the Printrboard, then loading some software to upload the binary. Is that the sequence the same for this, I just point it at the newly compiled Marlin binary?
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 31, 2014 12:45AM
Yep, I think so.

I've never installed precompiled binaries from printrbot though.

I used dfu-programmer to send the firmware to the board.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
January 31, 2014 11:47AM
At the very end of my latest entry you'll find links to instructions

Building the 3DR “Simple” Delta Printer, Part III [trains.socha.com]

And yes, you have to follow the same steps as it seems the Printrboard doesn't have a bootloader that would allow you to download the firmware directly from the Arduino IDE.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
March 22, 2014 10:51PM
Quote
Funkymonk
I designed a plastic spool holder for the 3DR Simple. It works great in conjunction with:[www.thingiverse.com].
Just place it in the upper frame.

[www.thingiverse.com]
3DR-Simple Filament spool holder
by Funkymonk, published Jan 20, 2014
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Is there a way to get this designed to fit a Mini Kossel?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2014 10:54PM by RTurnock.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
March 27, 2014 01:32PM
Quote
RTurnock
Quote
Funkymonk
I designed a plastic spool holder for the 3DR Simple. It works great in conjunction with:[www.thingiverse.com].
Just place it in the upper frame.

[www.thingiverse.com]
3DR-Simple Filament spool holder
by Funkymonk, published Jan 20, 2014
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Is there a way to get this designed to fit a Mini Kossel?

Feel free to modify it.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
March 27, 2014 03:42PM
Quote
JohnSL
And yes, you have to follow the same steps as it seems the Printrboard doesn't have a bootloader that would allow you to download the firmware directly from the Arduino IDE.

I was screwing around for hours trying to get the DFU thingy to work on my mac. Finally I got really pissed and tried to upload from arduino IDE anyway and behold, it worked smiling smiley

Unfortunately I was so tired and went to bed afterwards so I don´t remember what of all the things I tried made it work. I added a hardware/teensy folder and it was some mucking about getting the right combo of versions of the files/folders in there or something.
Re: Building a 3DR "Simple"
April 11, 2014 11:35PM
Firmware updates to Printrboard to upload Marlin for 3DR Simple.
[www.printrbottalk.com]

I use a MAC and have to do a bunch of things for Updating Firmware.
I downloaded the Printrbot Firmware Updater and use Arduino IDE to verify/complie and create the HEX file.

Unplug everything, including USB to Printrboard, turn off power or unplug.
Use pre-configured Arduino IDE to modify Marlin code and verify-compile. Note the file name at the end of the list.
For me:
/var/folders/6x/pk1wrcvs07s4b0c067y_3sgw0000gn/T/build6641325177505948607.tmp/Marlin.cpp.hex
Use Terminal app: open $TMPDIR
Drag and drop Marlin.cpp.hex onto Printrbot Firmware Updater app.
Follow the directions exactly.
Remove jumper
Disconnect power and then reconnect power.
Open Repetier, connect and confirm changes.
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