Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

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Plasticmonkey
Still having challenges getting mine to just auto home. I have tried making every combination of flipping motor wires without luck, inverting in firmware, wired and rewired, and tripled checked voltage. I suspect the firmware and/or rails.

So, sorry for the newbie questions (at the brink of my frustrations)...

1) How may I confirm how many teeth my motors are?

2) one of my rails is a little rough. I did try to use a paper toil to clear out the rails and then oil after but it still feels like there are burrs. any suggestions for making them "butter-smooth"?

Thanks again...

I don't know what you mean about your motors having teeth, but I can tell you that the pulleys are the ones that most refer to. You can count how many teeth they have. The ones shipped out have 36. All my rails were a little tight when I got them. I just kept moving them up and down while dropping some lithium grease on the rails. They eventually because super smooth.

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MakerFront

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putnam777
Apologies for the double-post...

I haven't gotten the autolevel to work with Marlin FW at all. When I was using the Repetier FW, it worked fine, yet it didn't print nearly as well as the Marlin FW does. When I enter the G29 code, the steppers go nuts and the head swings wildly. It clearly isn't working properly... I've changed the grid size from 20 to 0 in the config.h file, yet I'm still having the same issue.

What gives?

Make sure you have the correct FW for the amount of teeth on your pulleys, newer kits will be shipping with 20 tooth pulleys, the older ones have 36 tooth pulleys.

If you have 36 tooth pulleys and you try to use the 20 tooth FW, the steps per mm will be wayyyyy off. Causing erratic behavior.

Check the stepper wires against the V2 manual and make sure they are oriented the same way. There are changes between the V1 FW and the V2 FW as far as stepper direction goes.

Lastly, make sure you enter your values into Configuration.h as the config manual explains.

Thanks for all the tips. I figured out my issue... one of the stepper boards was bad. When I swapped it with the provided spare (E01), all started behaving as expected...printing now...

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MakerFront

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putnam777
Apologies for the double-post...

I haven't gotten the autolevel to work with Marlin FW at all. When I was using the Repetier FW, it worked fine, yet it didn't print nearly as well as the Marlin FW does. When I enter the G29 code, the steppers go nuts and the head swings wildly. It clearly isn't working properly... I've changed the grid size from 20 to 0 in the config.h file, yet I'm still having the same issue.

What gives?

Make sure you have the correct FW for the amount of teeth on your pulleys, newer kits will be shipping with 20 tooth pulleys, the older ones have 36 tooth pulleys.

If you have 36 tooth pulleys and you try to use the 20 tooth FW, the steps per mm will be wayyyyy off. Causing erratic behavior.

Check the stepper wires against the V2 manual and make sure they are oriented the same way. There are changes between the V1 FW and the V2 FW as far as stepper direction goes.

Lastly, make sure you enter your values into Configuration.h as the config manual explains.

awesome, bought this a little over a week ago and was gonna change to 20 tooth pulleys anyways! now I dont have to

So far it makes nearly perfect prints at about two inches thick. Anything over 2 inches shows severe layer separation. I have the correct FW for 36 tooth pulleys. What the deuce am I missing? Could it be settings, or the fact that I prefer to use the Repetier program?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2015 05:09PM by putnam777.

So I greased my bearing with lithium grease, and it's still not working. I emailed the guys at Folgertech twice, so hopefully they'll get back to me soon.

Rock on...

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Plasticmonkey
Still having challenges getting mine to just auto home. I have tried making every combination of flipping motor wires without luck, inverting in firmware, wired and rewired, and tripled checked voltage. I suspect the firmware and/or rails.

So, sorry for the newbie questions (at the brink of my frustrations)...

1) How may I confirm how many teeth my motors are?

2) one of my rails is a little rough. I did try to use a paper toil to clear out the rails and then oil after but it still feels like there are burrs. any suggestions for making them "butter-smooth"?

Thanks again...

One of my rails is exactly the same. I think that's why I'm getting funky prints. Can anyone confirm that this is common and can be fixed without replacement?

I think I have found an error in the Folgertech 20 tooth v2 firmware. In the firmware the steps/mm is set to 189/2.25 which yields the incorrect result of 84 steps/mm. GT2 20-tooth is supposed to be set at 80 steps/mm (not 84 steps/mm like the folgertech firmware).
The firmware for the 36-tooth version seems correct. That one is set to 100/2.25 which yields 44.44, which is correct for 36 tooth GT2.
Please someone, correct me if I'm wrong?

(200*16) / (20 * 2 ) = 80 steps/mm
(200*16)/(36 * 2) = 44.44 steps / mm

Putnam, check the extruder motor gear and mechanism. Mine "skips" a lot on certain filaments (white PLA never skips but two different brands of black PLA do for some reason). I've tried different temps and the only correlation I think I see is that, the longer I print continuously, the more likely it is to happen. I'm wondering if it's a type of heat soak in the print head, but I've also noticed that the spools don't always rotate well on the rectangular spool holder. Not sure why that wasn't made round.

I can hear it when it's really stuck, and you can test it by just manually extruding some filament...it should be silent without any small popping (skipping) noises. Sometimes the filament gets unstuck on its own and I get weak layers or missing infill like you're describing.

I'm printing some bearing rollers now to see if I can get the spool to turn more freely and also printed out a geared extruder I will probably try today. I'd like to be able to adjust tension on the filament to solve my problem, which the stock extruder doesn't seem to be able to do.

Olivier

I finally got mine to feed consistently for long enough to print this, and it's made a big difference. So far no more skipping. If this proves less than completely reliable, then I have a Wade extruder and an "EZ Extruder" on hand to try. So far, the simpler and cheaper option is working, though...

It really smoothed out the rotation and also prevents the weight of the remaining filament drom always pulling back as the feeder tries to feed it.

Olivier

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2015 06:35PM by ohecht.

Olivier,

Were you ever able to figure out the auto-level issue on only probing on the + side of the axis? I have that exact same problem.

Gary

Hi Gary. No, I still haven't fixed that. Once I got the end stops and smooth rod ends calibrated to print flat I haven't needed the auto level at all. My prints have been dead flat and that's even after moving the printer around the house a few times. I will look into it again sometime just to have it in case I ever need it, but I've been too busy with the filament feeding issues recently...hopefully that's fixed now! Let me know if you figure anything out.

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ohecht
Putnam, check the extruder motor gear and mechanism. Mine "skips" a lot on certain filaments (white PLA never skips but two different brands of black PLA do for some reason). I've tried different temps and the only correlation I think I see is that, the longer I print continuously, the more likely it is to happen. I'm wondering if it's a type of heat soak in the print head, but I've also noticed that the spools don't always rotate well on the rectangular spool holder. Not sure why that wasn't made round.

I can hear it when it's really stuck, and you can test it by just manually extruding some filament...it should be silent without any small popping (skipping) noises. Sometimes the filament gets unstuck on its own and I get weak layers or missing infill like you're describing.

I'm printing some bearing rollers now to see if I can get the spool to turn more freely and also printed out a geared extruder I will probably try today. I'd like to be able to adjust tension on the filament to solve my problem, which the stock extruder doesn't seem to be able to do.

Olivier

ohecht, I think you were right. I put my spool on some printed bearings and it seems to have fixed the issue so far. I'll see if a longer print yields the same results. Thanks!!

Olivier and others,

I've seen some filament feed issues as well but this auto-level thing really is bugging me.

Right now, I'm printing a new Bowden feed system (the Kossel is my 3rd printer so I have some flexibility thank goodness) and I am definitely going to change out that holder bracket with something better with rollers or bearings, but definitely something with a lot less drag on the spool.

Has everyone stuck with the hotend that came with the printer or has anyone replaced it with something else? I have a Prometheus Hotend and an E3D, both of which are not in use right now that I'm thinking about swapping in for the stock one. I am about to change out the 6 rods with a longer set I have so that will be the time to swap the hotend out too I think.

I also don't like the way the cooling fan works on the machine so I think when I replace the hotend, I will put a more "directed" fan mount on so it definitely is blowing across the cooling fins.

Gary

Gary, this is my first printer so I'm just starting to experiment and look into upgrades. So far my hotend has seemed fine for me...no issues at all and no maintenance so far after going through at least a spool's worth of PLA in a couple different colors.

My fan blows directly across the coing fins...not sure if your setup is different somehow. I have noticed some other printers that have fans pointing directly at the nozzle and I've been wondering if there's an advantage to that...

My only new issue from yesterday is that the bed heater seems to need a "jump start" now. It won't come on right away but so far will always start beating and come up to temp later in a print. It only seems to happen if I let it cool down a lot, like overnight or for many hours during the day. The prints are still fine even if I start with a cool bed, though.

Olivier,

The second fan you're referring to is a fan that lots of folks use to help cool the printed piece more quickly. It is especially helpful if you are printing a small part I think. I am getting ready to put one on my Prusa printer right now in fact.

That's a different fan than the one required for cooling the hotend. However, I've found that if I don't somewhat direct the air across the hotend's cooling fins, things don't always print well. So, some sort of shroud that directs all the air directly across the hotend works best for me.

Gary

its great for overhangs

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woodywong
I think I have found an error in the Folgertech 20 tooth v2 firmware. In the firmware the steps/mm is set to 189/2.25 which yields the incorrect result of 84 steps/mm. GT2 20-tooth is supposed to be set at 80 steps/mm (not 84 steps/mm like the folgertech firmware).
The firmware for the 36-tooth version seems correct. That one is set to 100/2.25 which yields 44.44, which is correct for 36 tooth GT2.
Please someone, correct me if I'm wrong?

When I worked on the FW, the final values I entered for the steps per mm were not from calculations but from exact measurements of an as built configuration. I started with the calculated steps, but found the movements to be off.

On the printer I used to compile the manual the actual steps were not moving the effector the requested travel distance. I may have been wrong here, but I thought they all may be off by that much.

I apologize if this has caused any issues, you may want to take exact measurements and adjust the steps per mm accordingly.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 09:53AM by MakerFront.

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abybody use these with their Kossel?

[www.ebay.com]. They look nteresting and an upgrade I might try if possible once I receive and build my Kossel. So anxious to receive it.

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cman8
abybody use these with their Kossel?

[www.ebay.com]. They look nteresting and an upgrade I might try if possible once I receive and build my Kossel. So anxious to receive it.

I built a Deltaprintr (yes without the e) for a friend of mine and they used those. It's interesting, but it requires a different firmware to use them. They wire in parallel and plug into an unused temperature sensor port (usually T1 or T2).

How it works is:
Upon G29 command, the resistance (or temperature value) is measured as a baseline
The printer goes about it's auto level routine as normal, measuring all the spots by pressing the hot end against the bed. When the resistance (temperature) changes, it know's it hit the sensor.

It's a different type of auto level, pretty cool. Relieves the need for having a sensor on the effector.

The only drawback is that if you have any filament stuck to the hot end, it will throw the measurement off a little, so this auto level should only be performed when it's hot.

Rule of thumb with deltas: The less weight on the effector the better!

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 02:45PM by MakerFront.

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Intersting. Well it seems like autolevel is something you have to tweak regardless. But looks like once its operational its fantastic. the videos Ive seen make it look so cool.

On another note, Did you ever get the heatbed working better as to print ABS? Would changing the heatbed help or is it just what it is?

Auto level is a novel idea, I like it sometimes because it takes the guess work out of any changes to the printer especially if you move it.

I personally trued-up the printer and bed to make sure it's level and straight so I could bypass the auto level routine. IMO, an accurately calibrated printer shouldn't need auto level. As long as your bed it flat, the printing repeat-ability will be the same every time.

Just this guy's opinion though

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Agreed. Well when I get mine in Ill surely check to see if the bed is level as I want to start printing as soon as possible. Already have been making a folder of things I want to print. Do you print ABS or PLA? whats the preference?

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cman8
Agreed. Well when I get mine in Ill surely check to see if the bed is level as I want to start printing as soon as possible. Already have been making a folder of things I want to print. Do you print ABS or PLA? whats the preference?

That's a matter of preference, I print PLA mostly (because we stock 500+ spools at any given time). I use the heated bed at 40C while I print PLA. I haven't done much with ABS because I haven't had the need to.

Some swear by ABS, but like I said, it's a matter of preference.

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Hello everyone.

I just finished building my Kossel with custom dimensions, using 2020 profile. While exploring for firmware, I came across of this forum and decided to use FolgerTech_kossel_firmware_V2 for 20 tooth (modified for 16 tooth pulley).

After manual calibration for surface flatness and correct Z travel (I changed steps/mm because the calculated value using formula above, was giving me some wired results), I tried autolevel function using G29 command. Very strange behavior! it seem to me that it tries to calibrate a plane which is inclined with almost 45 degree and located somewhere in the middle of the print height. Basically it is same as here but plane is inclined: [www.youtube.com]

Does anyone know how to fix this?


I'm using both, Repetier_Host and Pronterface.
Hardware is Ramps 1.4 + Mega 2560 V3 + DRV8825

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 05:24PM by ilotam.

I use the allen wrench switch system on mine and this very thing happens to me when I forget to deploy my sensor before I start the G29 probe. Basically, the printer detects the bed the moment it starts to travel down and thius compesated by moving up the next probe. Your z-min (auto level) switch might be wired wrong, normally closed instead of normally open or vice versa, depending on what your firmware is looking for.

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mmcginnis9272
I use the allen wrench switch system on mine and this very thing happens to me when I forget to deploy my sensor before I start the G29 probe. Basically, the printer detects the bed the moment it starts to travel down and thius compesated by moving up the next probe. Your z-min (auto level) switch might be wired wrong, normally closed instead of normally open or vice versa, depending on what your firmware is looking for.

I also use allen wrench switch. in retracted position the switch is triggered, in extended, it becomes open. I will change that and see the results. thanks for reply.

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ilotam
Hello everyone.

I just finished building my Kossel with custom dimensions, using 2020 profile. While exploring for firmware, I came across of this forum and decided to use FolgerTech_kossel_firmware_V2 for 20 tooth (modified for 16 tooth pulley).

After manual calibration for surface flatness and correct Z travel (I changed steps/mm because the calculated value using formula above, was giving me some wired results), I tried autolevel function using G29 command. Very strange behavior! it seem to me that it tries to calibrate a plane which is inclined with almost 45 degree and located somewhere in the middle of the print height. Basically it is same as here but plane is inclined: [www.youtube.com]

Does anyone know how to fix this?


I'm using both, Repetier_Host and Pronterface.
Hardware is Ramps 1.4 + Mega 2560 V3 + DRV8825

The only thing I can think of is that you wired your z-probe switch wrong. It's possible that it is thinking that the switch is pushed when it's not supposed to be. Input M119 with all axes at home and then do it again with the z-probe switch pushed.
When all axes are homed and z-probe NOT pushed, it's supposed to report back:
x max-triggered
y max-triggered
z min-open
z max-triggered

with z-probe pushed, then the z min will show triggered.
If the opposite is happening, invert it in the firmware or just rewire your switch. Remember, one of the terminals on the mechanical switch is normally open(meaning that it is triggered when the switch is pushed) and one is normally closed(which means that it disconnects when the switch is pushed).

If you use D9 for the fan, see my earlier note on this same thread. Using the files at Blomker, you actually have to know what you are doing, it's not plug and play. You have to make sure the arm's length, end switches (TRUE or FALSE), stepper motor speed, etc are properly entered. Otherwise, this could take you hours to configure and tweak. Also the files for Repetier and Marlin are different. I'm currently using Marlin's, but FolgerTech have the files for Repetier. There using to be a google drive like under their blog, but I just try it and it's not there any more. PM me if you need the Marlin's version (which I did modified from blomker).

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