Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

Quote
Flish
Got my kit finally delivered, assembled, configured (re-assembled, re- reconfigured)...

My X axis endstop doesnt seem to work right... - because of this, the carrage ended up sliding off the linear rail. (was able to get this back on without losing any ballbearings)

When homing, all the carriges rise up to the top and bump the switch -which activate the stop but the X axis seems to keep 'grinding' away after the switch is pressed and the light comes on. It grinds like this for a few seconds, causing alot of vibration and belt skipping - then it seems to finally register and stops... -like theres a delay.

I believe the connections are all good and the motor seems to perform like it should otherwise... I haven't tried swapping the end switches yet.

Check the pin connections in the connector and verify that the endstop actually functions by using a multimeter on it. This way you can tell if it is actually function and sending the signal back as it is supposed to. http://reprap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Endstop

Quote
Flish
Got my kit finally delivered, assembled, configured (re-assembled, re- reconfigured)...

My X axis endstop doesnt seem to work right... - because of this, the carrage ended up sliding off the linear rail. (was able to get this back on without losing any ballbearings)

When homing, all the carriges rise up to the top and bump the switch -which activate the stop but the X axis seems to keep 'grinding' away after the switch is pressed and the light comes on. It grinds like this for a few seconds, causing alot of vibration and belt skipping - then it seems to finally register and stops... -like theres a delay.

I believe the connections are all good and the motor seems to perform like it should otherwise... I haven't tried swapping the end switches yet.

I had one end stop switch that was hitting the slide rail. I carefully bent the switch so that it was free moving.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2015 02:42PM by Djkingsley.

They seem to have had an issue with their endstops lately, I put together 10 of their machines and had to re-crimp 2 of the 3 wires on the black connector side of the end stop cable. I had to do this for 12 out of 30 end stops.

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Quote
Djkingsley

Quote
Flish
Got my kit finally delivered, assembled, configured (re-assembled, re- reconfigured)...

My X axis endstop doesnt seem to work right... - because of this, the carrage ended up sliding off the linear rail. (was able to get this back on without losing any ballbearings)

When homing, all the carriges rise up to the top and bump the switch -which activate the stop but the X axis seems to keep 'grinding' away after the switch is pressed and the light comes on. It grinds like this for a few seconds, causing alot of vibration and belt skipping - then it seems to finally register and stops... -like theres a delay.

I believe the connections are all good and the motor seems to perform like it should otherwise... I haven't tried swapping the end switches yet.

I had one end stop switch that was hitting the slide rail. I carefully bent the switch so that it was free moving.

If you are using their endstops and their endstop holders then you will need to modify the endstop or the holder. Do not bend the switch, as you have now just changed the endstop location. Instead either use a grinder on the ensdstop holder to make it flat OR use a flat cutter and cut the solder points that are touching the holder. Otherwise your endstops will be at an angle. I will take a picture of how I did it on my holders, but I used a Dremel to smooth out a spot for the solder points on the sensor.

Quote
MakerFront
They seem to have had an issue with their endstops lately, I put together 10 of their machines and had to re-crimp 2 of the 3 wires on the black connector side of the end stop cable. I had to do this for 12 out of 30 end stops.

They are just repackaging the Chinese endstops, so you cannot blame them. After I ordered this printer, I started ordering the parts from China. After I opened their package I laughed and pulled out handfuls of the same parts that I had ordered.

Last night I fed the sample pack of ABS filament into the extruder drive and it would not go, the first issues was it hung in the molded block just before it goes into the hole above the gear. I manually lined up the filament in the block and re-installed it on the stepper motor, then it hit the brass fitting. Again I pulled some more length and got past that snag. It then smoothly followed the PFTE tubing until entering the second brass fitting, I have no idea what it is snagged on in the hot end.

Has this happened to anyone else? and if so how do you fix it. I assume I will have to take the hot end apart and check it to see what the filament is catching on.

Quote
Djkingsley
Has this happened to anyone else?

I have to unscrew both ends of the teflon tube every time I change filament. Run a few cm's out of the extruder, then slip the tube down on it and screw in place. Extrude enough to get past the other end of the tube, then thread it into the hole in the top of the hotend before screwing down that end.

Changing filament is a challenge, too. It will never fully retract from the hotend on its own. There is always a little ridge that keeps it from backing out smoothly. Unscrew the tube at the hotend, then extrude enough filament to push the tube up a few cm's. Use a pair of pliers to firmly but gently lever the filament out of the hotend.

Note: If you want to run the extruder without heating the hotend, comment out this line in configuration.h:

#define PREVENT_DANGEROUS_EXTRUDE

Quote
Djkingsley
Last night I fed the sample pack of ABS filament into the extruder drive and it would not go, the first issues was it hung in the molded block just before it goes into the hole above the gear. I manually lined up the filament in the block and re-installed it on the stepper motor, then it hit the brass fitting. Again I pulled some more length and got past that snag. It then smoothly followed the PFTE tubing until entering the second brass fitting, I have no idea what it is snagged on in the hot end.

Has this happened to anyone else? and if so how do you fix it. I assume I will have to take the hot end apart and check it to see what the filament is catching on.

It snagged on one of the many protrusions inside the head once out of the bowden there is a collar inside that feeds it into the shaft and then through the shaft to the throat, down through the throat into the bottom of the head. When I change my filament, I heat the head, unscrew both bowdens and extrude it to 3 inches past the end of the PTFE tubing. Straighten the filament out, then you can slide it into the head and you will fee the stops. The hothead is about 3 inches top to bottom, so if you get it right, it should extrude a little plastic as you manually insert it.

First thing I suggest printing is a new extruder, the one that comes with the kit is only good for about half a dozen prints depending on your filament. My print quality increased as soon as I created a new extruder.

Replacing pronterface/slic3r and moving to Simplify3d also increased the speed, accuracy and reliability of the prints. Thee last prints I made on normal with Simplify3d were absolutely stunning. I handed them to my son and he asked me where I go them. When I said I printed them, he freaked out and started inspecting them.

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thevisad
First thing I suggest printing is a new extruder, the one that comes with the kit is only good for about half a dozen prints depending on your filament. My print quality increased as soon as I created a new extruder.

Which extruder did you print? Do you have a link to the files?

Quote
Deguello

Quote
thevisad
First thing I suggest printing is a new extruder, the one that comes with the kit is only good for about half a dozen prints depending on your filament. My print quality increased as soon as I created a new extruder.

Which extruder did you print? Do you have a link to the files?

I printed this one http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:275593 The part is mirrored so you either need to flip your motor wire at the ramps, change the direction in the firmware or mirror the part. The gear on ours is a little different, but this works like a charm. I had tons of skate bearings laying around from our 2 other 3dprinter builds.

This is the gear I would be using Hobb-Goblin

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2015 10:22AM by thevisad.

Quote
thevisad
It snagged on one of the many protrusions inside the head once out of the bowden there is a collar inside that feeds it into the shaft and then through the shaft to the throat, down through the throat into the bottom of the head. When I change my filament, I heat the head, unscrew both bowdens and extrude it to 3 inches past the end of the PTFE tubing. Straighten the filament out, then you can slide it into the head and you will fee the stops. The hothead is about 3 inches top to bottom, so if you get it right, it should extrude a little plastic as you manually insert it.

First thing I suggest printing is a new extruder, the one that comes with the kit is only good for about half a dozen prints depending on your filament. My print quality increased as soon as I created a new extruder.

Are you talking about the molded block the extruder gear fits into? if so I have already decided it had to go, one of my office mates found a design that works much better on his upscale version of the Folger design.

Quote
thevisad
Replacing pronterface/slic3r and moving to Simplify3d also increased the speed, accuracy and reliability of the prints. Thee last prints I made on normal with Simplify3d were absolutely stunning. I handed them to my son and he asked me where I go them. When I said I printed them, he freaked out and started inspecting them.

I will eventually get Simplify3d, I am using the Folger printer as a stepping stone to prove the design of a line of products I am working on for the high power model rocket community.

Quote
Djkingsley

Are you talking about the molded block the extruder gear fits into? if so I have already decided it had to go, one of my office mates found a design that works much better on his upscale version of the Folger design.

Yes sir, that hunk of junk, which one did you go with?

Quote
Djkingsley
I will eventually get Simplify3d, I am using the Folger printer as a stepping stone to prove the design of a line of products I am working on for the high power model rocket community.

It will definitely do the job, just needs a bit of hand holding to get started.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2015 11:35AM by thevisad.

Quote
thevisad

Quote
Djkingsley

Are you talking about the molded block the extruder gear fits into? if so I have already decided it had to go, one of my office mates found a design that works much better on his upscale version of the Folger design.

Yes sir, that hunk of junk, which one did you go with?

I am not sure if this is the final one he went with but there are several designs out there that are similar.( [www.thingiverse.com])

His upscale of the Folger delta printer started with their corner bracket design for the 40x20 rail. His printer is 1 m tall and he has fabricated all of his own plastic parts on a borrowed printer.

I got the bed autolevel probing and clicking all the spots -so physically it works for me but, I added g29 and the deploy probe codes to Cura and it goes thru the probing routine then tries to print from the z probing height...
I'm new to gcode and 3D printing for that matter... so follows is the default start print routine in Cura with what I inserted in red:

;Sliced at: {day} {date} {time}
;Basic settings: Layer height: {layer_height} Walls: {wall_thickness} Fill: {fill_density}
;Print time: {print_time}
;Filament used: {filament_amount}m {filament_weight}g
;Filament cost: {filament_cost}
;M190 S{print_bed_temperature} ;Uncomment to add your own bed temperature line
;M109 S{print_temperature} ;Uncomment to add your own temperature line
G21 ;metric values
G90 ;absolute positioning
M82 ;set extruder to absolute mode
M107 ;start with the fan off
G28 X0 Y0 ;move X/Y to min endstops
G28 Z0 ;move Z to min endstops
M280 P0 S5 // lowers the z probe thingy
G29 // autolevel probing
M280 P0 S120 // raises the z probe thingy
G1 Z15.0 F{travel_speed} ;move the platform down 15mm
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length
G1 F200 E3 ;extrude 3mm of feed stock
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length again
G1 F{travel_speed}
;Put printing message on LCD screen
M117 Printing...

What am I missing?

Quote
Flish
I got the bed autolevel probing and clicking all the spots -so physically it works for me but, I added g29 and the deploy probe codes to Cura and it goes thru the probing routine then tries to print from the z probing height...
I'm new to gcode and 3D printing for that matter... so follows is the default start print routine in Cura with what I inserted in red:

;Sliced at: {day} {date} {time}
;Basic settings: Layer height: {layer_height} Walls: {wall_thickness} Fill: {fill_density}
;Print time: {print_time}
;Filament used: {filament_amount}m {filament_weight}g
;Filament cost: {filament_cost}
;M190 S{print_bed_temperature} ;Uncomment to add your own bed temperature line
;M109 S{print_temperature} ;Uncomment to add your own temperature line
G21 ;metric values
G90 ;absolute positioning
M82 ;set extruder to absolute mode
M107 ;start with the fan off
G28 X0 Y0 ;move X/Y to min endstops
G28 Z0 ;move Z to min endstops
M280 P0 S5 // lowers the z probe thingy
G29 // autolevel probing
M280 P0 S120 // raises the z probe thingy
G1 Z15.0 F{travel_speed} ;move the platform down 15mm
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length
G1 F200 E3 ;extrude 3mm of feed stock
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length again
G1 F{travel_speed}
;Put printing message on LCD screen
M117 Printing...

What am I missing?

Z probe height is a negative value in the firmware, did you add it as a positive?

I'm still waiting on my kit...

But i'm wondering why more people haven't given up on the servo driven z probe and moved to a proximity sensor? Has anybody actually done it yet?

I use a proximity sensor (LJ12A3-4-Z/BX) on my Folger i3 and i've got one waiting for my Folger Kossel.

• + and - go directly to the PSU.. simple voltage divider in the middle.. one signal wire to the ramps (no power issues)
• No need to swing up/down the prob arms (Having been in the RC hobby for decades i know how 'accurate' low cost 9g servos are.. spoiler.. not very accurate)
• No change to firmware.. just leave out the servo setup.
• 1 extra line to your start gcode not 3.... G29 and be done with it.
• ~$7 from Amazon (prime)

I've seen some posts here that say the auto leveling in Marlin is messed up.. thats not true. I've used both v1.0.2 and the dev branch with no issues (other then commenting out a few 'safety checks' because the X & Y axis are backwards on my i3 to what the auto level code expects)

Sounds like a great idea. My only question is how to account for a glass build plate since the proximity sensor is inductive. It would detect the aluminum bed under the glass. I guess I could give it something like M206 Z-2.5 after auto level.

Give us photos (and your OpenSCAD code for the mount) when you get it on your Kossel.

Quote
thevisad

Quote
Flish
I got the bed autolevel probing and clicking all the spots -so physically it works for me but, I added g29 and the deploy probe codes to Cura and it goes thru the probing routine then tries to print from the z probing height...
I'm new to gcode and 3D printing for that matter... so follows is the default start print routine in Cura with what I inserted in red:

;Sliced at: {day} {date} {time}
;Basic settings: Layer height: {layer_height} Walls: {wall_thickness} Fill: {fill_density}
;Print time: {print_time}
;Filament used: {filament_amount}m {filament_weight}g
;Filament cost: {filament_cost}
;M190 S{print_bed_temperature} ;Uncomment to add your own bed temperature line
;M109 S{print_temperature} ;Uncomment to add your own temperature line
G21 ;metric values
G90 ;absolute positioning
M82 ;set extruder to absolute mode
M107 ;start with the fan off
G28 X0 Y0 ;move X/Y to min endstops
G28 Z0 ;move Z to min endstops
M280 P0 S5 // lowers the z probe thingy
G29 // autolevel probing
M280 P0 S120 // raises the z probe thingy
G1 Z15.0 F{travel_speed} ;move the platform down 15mm
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length
G1 F200 E3 ;extrude 3mm of feed stock
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length again
G1 F{travel_speed}
;Put printing message on LCD screen
M117 Printing...

What am I missing?

Z probe height is a negative value in the firmware, did you add it as a positive?

Thanks... Went thru the trouble of making sure the X and Y offsets were correct so my probe didnt keep falling off the bed and left the Z a positive.

Quote
Flish

Quote
thevisad

Quote
Flish
I got the bed autolevel probing and clicking all the spots -so physically it works for me but, I added g29 and the deploy probe codes to Cura and it goes thru the probing routine then tries to print from the z probing height...
I'm new to gcode and 3D printing for that matter... so follows is the default start print routine in Cura with what I inserted in red:

;Sliced at: {day} {date} {time}
;Basic settings: Layer height: {layer_height} Walls: {wall_thickness} Fill: {fill_density}
;Print time: {print_time}
;Filament used: {filament_amount}m {filament_weight}g
;Filament cost: {filament_cost}
;M190 S{print_bed_temperature} ;Uncomment to add your own bed temperature line
;M109 S{print_temperature} ;Uncomment to add your own temperature line
G21 ;metric values
G90 ;absolute positioning
M82 ;set extruder to absolute mode
M107 ;start with the fan off
G28 X0 Y0 ;move X/Y to min endstops
G28 Z0 ;move Z to min endstops
M280 P0 S5 // lowers the z probe thingy
G29 // autolevel probing
M280 P0 S120 // raises the z probe thingy
G1 Z15.0 F{travel_speed} ;move the platform down 15mm
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length
G1 F200 E3 ;extrude 3mm of feed stock
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length again
G1 F{travel_speed}
;Put printing message on LCD screen
M117 Printing...

What am I missing?

Z probe height is a negative value in the firmware, did you add it as a positive?

Thanks... Went thru the trouble of making sure the X and Y offsets were correct so my probe didnt keep falling off the bed and left the Z a positive.

This sample code and group debugging is priceless to me. I have been pondering about how to incorporate the bed leveling into the gcode for printing and it magically appears, thanks. Anyone know if there is a tips/tricks site with more of these kind of examples.

Quote
Deguello
Sounds like a great idea. My only question is how to account for a glass build plate since the proximity sensor is inductive. It would detect the aluminum bed under the glass. I guess I could give it something like M206 Z-2.5 after auto level.

My Kossel kit hasn't arrived yet.. but i don't see anything about this kit using a glass plate. Correct me if i'm wrong, but you print directly to the Aluminum plate covered in either Blue (or Kapton) tape. Those sensors are rated at a 4mm detection distance... Its the same sensor Printrbot uses on their printers.

On my i3 w/aluminum build pate (3mm) covered with 'Buildtak' (not sure how thick it is.. but its thick!) i still have plenty of wiggle room for adjustments.
(here is a picture of my Folger i3.. i expect it to be easier on the Kossel to get setup)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2015 03:12PM by TheLost.

Quote
TheLost
Correct me if i'm wrong, but you print directly to the Aluminum plate covered in either Blue (or Kapton) tape.

Printing on blue tape is fine, but it's a bit of a pain to clean off. I use a piece of glass coated with purple AquaNet hair spray. Works great for both ABS and PLA. ABS has to cool down completely before it lets go, so I have several plates ready. PLA lays down beautifully and pops loose after it cools just a couple of minutes.

I set up "Glass" and "No Glass" buttons in Pronterface to set the Z offset accordingly with M206.

Quote
Deguello
Printing on blue tape is fine, but it's a bit of a pain to clean off. I use a piece of glass coated with purple AquaNet hair spray. Works great for both ABS and PLA. ABS has to cool down completely before it lets go, so I have several plates ready. PLA lays down beautifully and pops loose after it cools just a couple of minutes.

I set up "Glass" and "No Glass" buttons in Pronterface to set the Z offset accordingly with M206.

I was a 'glass & glue stick' guy until i went with an aluminum build plate... now i'm addicted to 'BuildTak'

Quote
TheLost
I'm still waiting on my kit...

But i'm wondering why more people haven't given up on the servo driven z probe and moved to a proximity sensor? Has anybody actually done it yet?

I use a proximity sensor (LJ12A3-4-Z/BX) on my Folger i3 and i've got one waiting for my Folger Kossel.

• + and - go directly to the PSU.. simple voltage divider in the middle.. one signal wire to the ramps (no power issues)
• No need to swing up/down the prob arms (Having been in the RC hobby for decades i know how 'accurate' low cost 9g servos are.. spoiler.. not very accurate)
• No change to firmware.. just leave out the servo setup.
• 1 extra line to your start gcode not 3.... G29 and be done with it.
• ~$7 from Amazon (prime)

I've seen some posts here that say the auto leveling in Marlin is messed up.. thats not true. I've used both v1.0.2 and the dev branch with no issues (other then commenting out a few 'safety checks' because the X & Y axis are backwards on my i3 to what the auto level code expects)

Because a lot of people do not know how to...

Ordered my kit on March 22nd, It was delivered on April 16th. Went through the hardware kit, and a lot of bolts and t-nuts were missing. Anyone have a idea as to how long it usually takes before they ship out the missing parts after you contact orders@ ?

I have gotten a reply within a few hours and parts shipped next day.

Looks like Im not getting a reply today even though I sent off the e-mail at 9am, so I guess my stuff should ship tuesday. Less than thrilled over this whole mess, when I ordered it was a 10 day delay, Day 17 the label was created, and it was actually shipped on day 22. I do understand there were issues with ordering parts in, and I can forgive that. It annoyed me that After I sent a question through the ebay store on the 16th day they did not respond, but created the shipping label. I did send another email on the 22nd day, and they did respond saying that it would be shipping out soon.

The second part that bothers me about this is the disregard for accuracy in the parts bag. I was missing quite a few parts, like all of the M3x10 bolts and M3 washers. A few of the T-nuts arrived as M4s and not M3s, so worthless. When I contacted them again, I was told to inquire with another e-mail address. I guess I can't understand why they were not able to simply forward the email over to get this problem resolved.

The printed parts look like they are running the printers making them near the top limit of their speed. I was not impressed with the quality of the printed parts, and will be reprinting a few of the parts that are horrible.

Few thoughts for Folger on moving forward.

1. Get some small baggies and baggie up the different screws/bolts in individual baggies. This would simplify having to sort everything out, and would make it possible to weigh the baggies when packing to insure the correct number of parts are inside.

2. Ditch the m3 threaded rod in favor of m3x30 set screws.

3. Some sort of simple padding on the ends of the extrusions in the box, mine arrived damaged, but I was able to dress them with a file to get them to fit into the printed parts.

4. Offer pre-made calibrated rods for a small extra fee.

5. I consider myself a smart guy, but I cant see anywhere in the manual where the springs are used.

Where can i download the firmware for my printer. Folger web pages does seem to the the link.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2015 10:19PM by NeckBon3.

Quote
coshtor
4. Offer pre-made calibrated rods for a small extra fee.

Cutting the carbon rods is a bit of a pain. Find an archery shop. They have a saw for cutting arrows to a specific length.

Quote
coshtor
5. I consider myself a smart guy, but I cant see anywhere in the manual where the springs are used.

These springs?

Quote
Deguello

Quote
coshtor
4. Offer pre-made calibrated rods for a small extra fee.

Cutting the carbon rods is a bit of a pain. Find an archery shop. They have a saw for cutting arrows to a specific length.

Quote
coshtor
5. I consider myself a smart guy, but I cant see anywhere in the manual where the springs are used.

These springs?

spring.jpg

Yeah those springs, they are not in the build manual like he indicated. The carbon fiber rods were cake to cut actually, I didn't have any issues with those.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2015 01:04AM by thevisad.