Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

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mmcginnis9272

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cislom
I am a newb - but have been holding my own using this forum as reference, but I have an odd one...

Got my Foldertech 2020 2 weeks back and have loved it - been printing in PLA for a while and I figured it was time to do some upgrades, so I wanted to print out a new effector and mount some new rod lengths - anyways long story short I got some ABS to print.

So I started out with a temp of 220 and 75 for the bed. The printer took some time to get there, but it did and it started printing about 3 layers and stopped (I wasn't watching that close after the 1st layer). The printer had "Locked up" I have a small computer hooked up to it with Repetier running and it had lost connection apparently. Odd - I have printed about 20 part of PLA and no issues - so I reboot everything and try again. Does the same thing - this time I was watching it. Looks like the extruder drops to about 215 and then basically locks up and stops the printer - the heat is still on for the bed and the extruder after that - but no communication - I have to power it all off.

I am thinking it is heat related? Any ideas? How can I tell?

Thanks in advance -

Try to print a PLA object again. Does it print?
Does the ABS job stop at the same spot each time? Could be a corrupt slicing job.
If it is heat related, it could be that running the bed so hot (and if you following the Folgertech instructions to put the electronics under the heat bed) is causing the electronics to overheat. Try blowing a fan under the printer to cool it while your printing to see what that does.

Chapter 2....

So - I can print with PLA without issue (190 for extruder / 50 for Bed) works like a charm. When I tried to print ABS - it was hanging up about 10-15% into the print. (See above). So I put a couple of small fans under the bed, blowing on the controller and it seems to keep the thing running.

The issue I have is getting the extruder temp to stay above 215 - it will fall to 195 or so and struggle to stay up above 205. I made sure all the connections to the power supply were tight and that the temp sensor was snug in the heating element, but still has the same outcome.

So:
1. replace the sensor in the heating element? is there a way to tell if it is bad (other than using an infrared thermometer)
2. New Power supply?
3. Sacrifice a chicken to the 3D printer gods?

I don't mind trying the sensor - is there one that is recommended? (Brand, size, etc) I think that the power supply should be good, everything seems to work fine up to 200 degrees or so.

Just looking for some input or a starting point I guess.

Thanks again everyone for the help / info.

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thevisad
There are at several hundred dollars apiece, iGus is a company that provides bearings for replacements and is what I am using in my next printer build.

I got in contact with igus asking for price on 3 800mm rails (TS-04-15) + 3 carriages (TW-04-15) and was surprised, $154 + VAT and shipping, sure a bit more expensive but not as much as I expected.

The quality of theese chinese rails is real bad.

I got my replacements from Folgertech and they too were missing balls, so I took them apart and gave them a thorough cleaning (plan was to use balls from the old ones to get complete carriages), this time using plenty of transmission-oil, bathed the carriages in it while pushing the balls through the canal and using a brush on the surfaces I could reach,
there were plenty of metal shavings and shit at the bottom of the bowl I was using when I was finished.
They got much better but still not as they should be, they still get "snagged" when running the carriages real slow back and forth, with a little speed they are silky smooth, but when going slow...

Folgertech informed me that they probably are going to drop the rails and go for a roller system.

@ cislom

Try using a piece of cardboard to block the side of the of the hotend that the fan is blowing at, as the hotend is heating up.... I noticed early on that my fan would cool the heat block and by blocking it would heat up much faster. So some type of fan shroud might help.

I think the point of the fan is too cool the fins(coolend?) before the hotend. Don't block the fan from cooling the fins. I wouldn't recommend ever having this fan off if the hotend is on because, heat from the block will creep up and heat that area with the cooling fins and get actually hot enough to melt the effector plate. -Done it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2015 11:33AM by Flish.

I had trouble maintaining ABS extruder temps until I added a fan shroud to keep the air off the hotend. Some day I will change to one that wraps the fins, but this does the job.

@ Flish @Deguello - Great Idea I think that is a winner - I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again.

I agree with everyone that has said the fan shroud is a must. Without it, I could not get over 200-210. With a shroud I can go as high as I need.

Chapter 3....

So after I added the fan shroud I could get the temp up over 215 to print in ABS, so that part is solved (Thanks again @Flish and @Deguello). But now another issue (maybe its all related?)

I tried print an ABS part - Temp 220 - Bed 80 (I have a 40 mm fan blowing across the controller with a small switch so I can turn it off if I want). So now with the shroud I can get up to temp on the extruder and the bed I never had any issues (until now). So everything starts out fine, but about 1/2 through the print (this was about 15 mins) my bed temp start dropping slowly until it gets to about 40. The print still continues, but now I get a little warping of the part. I tried printing from my computer and from a SD card - but it does the same for both. When connected to my computer I even manually tried to raise the bed temp during the print, but it never kicks in. It registers that it gets the command, but for some reason it can't hold the temp. The temp doesn't drop like it turns off, it just slowly starts dropping like it is controlled, which is the confusing part.

So I put in the switch on the fan on the controller, I thought maybe the it worked too well - but even if I turn off the fan when I see the bed temp start to drop, it still is unrecoverable.

But - If I print in PLA, I can keep the bed temp at 50 or 55 all day long with extruder temp at 190.

This is why I have trust issues.

So - I turn to the wisdom of the forum - any ideas of where I should start?

Thanks again -

Well, I would think it's the same kind of thing with the thermistor on the heatbed. -If the fan is blowing in that area it could possibly cool the sensor down... but you said you can turn off your under the bed fan. I went thru the same kind of thing with my heatbed. -added a fan to blow on the electronics then noticed the bed took forever to heat up. I have since added a thin piece of plywood under the bed to act as a thermal barrier and just have my electronics fan on all the time. -no more heating problems.

I put a layer of cork under my bed. The tiles come 12x12 inches and are the same thickness as the acrylic washers used to attach the bed.

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Deguello
I put a layer of cork under my bed. The tiles come 12x12 inches and are the same thickness as the acrylic washers used to attach the bed.

cork.jpg

any increase in bed heatup time?

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gaddcasey1
any increase in bed heatup time?

I assume you mean decrease? It heats faster. It heats faster still if I use the other 3 cork tiles from the package to block air from the bed while it's heating.

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Deguello

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gaddcasey1
any increase in bed heatup time?

I assume you mean decrease? It heats faster. It heats faster still if I use the other 3 cork tiles from the package to block air from the bed while it's heating.

ya, that is what i mean. you should time it. mine takes 10 minutes to heat up.

I started assembling the electronics while I wait on my replacement rail and I hit another snag within 30 mins. When I tried to install the RAMPS board on the Arduino I discovered my Arduino has a power input that the one in the instructions manuals does not have and it’s keeping the Ramps board from fully seating by interfering with the pins on the bottom of the ramps board. I’ve attached a couple pictures of what’s happening.

Is this an issue or should the Ramps have enough of a connection like this? If not I figured my options are too either file down the pins on the Ramps board (it’s barely interfering so I think removing the excess past the solder will be enough) or remove the power input from the Arduino. I’m not super excited about either option but I don’t want to waste time and money sending another part back to Folger tech. Thanks!

You should have plenty of contact as it is.

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matthew900
I started assembling the electronics while I wait on my replacement rail and I hit another snag within 30 mins. When I tried to install the RAMPS board on the Arduino I discovered my Arduino has a power input that the one in the instructions manuals does not have and it’s keeping the Ramps board from fully seating by interfering with the pins on the bottom of the ramps board. I’ve attached a couple pictures of what’s happening.

Is this an issue or should the Ramps have enough of a connection like this? If not I figured my options are too either file down the pins on the Ramps board (it’s barely interfering so I think removing the excess past the solder will be enough) or remove the power input from the Arduino. I’m not super excited about either option but I don’t want to waste time and money sending another part back to Folger tech. Thanks!

There is plenty of contact there, if you are concerned get a flat cut pliers and snip of a bit off of those mustard colored fuses. That will allow it to lay flatter, but you should have no issues as is.

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gaddcasey1

any increase in bed heatup time?

I raised the height of the rails, then added in the following. I lowered my temps under the bed by 80 Celcius and stopped baking my ramps. I was also able to add 3 fans blowing directly onto the motors to a point under the bed. With the fans off I can reach temperature (115+) in about 10-15 minutes, with them on full blast it takes another 5-10 minutes to get to temp. I am ordering a replacement bed (no aluminum on it), I believe I can lower them heat time by removing that extra aluminum. I used all 6 mounting holes to sandwich the wrap.

This is roughly what I used, you can buy the titanium, but I do not believe it's worth it.

http://www.amazon.com/DEI-010121-Black-Exhaust-Wrap/dp/B000E243CA

1/4 inch plywood -> motorcycle muffler pipe wrap (good to 1700 degrees!!) <- aluminum bed



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2015 05:29PM by thevisad.

So I decided to disassemble one of the linear rails to see if I could get it to work right since I'm running out of things to work on till the aluminum corners get here. I discovered the same thing others have, missing bearings and minor metal shavings, but what I also discovered was that the channels the bearings move thru inside the slide where not manufactured evenly. I tried to take a couple pics of what I'm seeing and drew an arrow on one.

I looks like when they machined the slide, instead of boring the hole for the bearings the whole way through, they did it half way from each side. Since the holes did not line up perfectly it resulted in an edge in the middle of the chamber the bearings are moving through. I don't know if it's enough to cause them to bind but I do think it's why they don't feel smooth as they slide. It was hard to take a picture of but I verified with a small allen wrench that there is an edge there on both sides.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2015 07:21PM by matthew900.

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matthew900
So I decided to disassemble one of the linear rails to see if I could get it to work right since I'm running out of things to work on till the aluminum corners get here. I discovered the same thing others have, missing bearings and minor metal shavings, but what I also discovered was that the channels the bearings move thru inside the slide where not manufactured evenly. I tried to take a couple pics of what I'm seeing and drew an arrow on one.

I looks like when they machined the slide, instead of boring the hole for the bearings the whole way through, they did it half way from each side. Since the holes did not line up perfectly it resulted in an edge in the middle of the chamber the bearings are moving through. I don't know if it's enough to cause them to bind but I do think it's why they don't feel smooth as they slide. It was hard to take a picture of but I verified with a small allen wrench that there is an edge there on both sides.

That looks real bad, even if it would not be enough to make the rails feel smooth (which I think it is) it is definitely enough to cause a lot of extra wear on the balls.

The quality of these rails...

I think you should mail that pic to Folgertech, I'm sure you'll get a replacement.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2015 01:07AM by Koenig.

Unfortunately this was one of the better feeling ones. I'm assuming this is the issue with all of them so a replacement would have the same or similar issues.

I did ask for a replacement of the one that was really bad and they are taking care of it. They have been very responsive which is great.

My recommendation would be that they start testing them all before shipping and pull the worse ones. Then find a better supplier, with so many options over there in china they may be able to find a better quality source without increasing the cost too much. I’d rather spend $50 to $100 more and get nice smooth bearing s.

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3D52
I took the time yesterday and manually leveled my bed, not only did I learn a lot, my prints are awesome. No more auto level for me.....

So - just for my own knowledge - did you use the existing acrylic mounts and put some springs on, or did you make/mount it to something new? Are you using anything else on top of the aluminum plate?

I was looking to so the same thing, for some reason my auto-level is not as accurate as I would hope.

My next plan is to insulate the plate from the controller and then manually leveling my bed. If I can accomplish this, harmony will once again return to my household

There are two ways to "level" the bed - from the bottom (bed springs) or from the top (adjust the endstops). I added screws to the top of the carriages and replaced the end effector with a dial indicator, then adjusted the endstops and DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET to achieve flat travel across the bed.

Later I installed the latest Marlin firmware and used M666 to adjust endstops and M665 to adjust the radius.

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Deguello
There are two ways to "level" the bed - from the bottom (bed springs) or from the top (adjust the endstops). I added screws to the top of the carriages and replaced the end effector with a dial indicator, then adjusted the endstops and DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET to achieve flat travel across the bed.

Later I installed the latest Marlin firmware and used M666 to adjust endstops and M665 to adjust the radius.

Yes I saw the new Marlin firmware - just wasn't brave enough to use it yet - But I may give it a try over the long weekend...

Any Gotchas that you can think of? or did you just update the Configuration.h file with all the proper values (I wouldn't want to forget something - there seems to be quiet a lot of settings in there)

thevisad has published a GitHub repository of the new Marlin firmware pretty much ready to go.

One thing - the thevisad's firmware is configured for a geared extruder. I had to #define INVERT_E0_DIR true

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2015 02:31PM by Deguello.

So I took the advice and put a small thermal break between my controller and the heat bed (3 pieces of cardboard - for starters - I know, I know - cheap bastard... but I just wanted to test it first) - seems to do the trick. BUT - my print would still fail about 15 mins in - It was driving me crazy... So just out of curiosity, I unplugged the RepRap Discount Smart Controller and low and behold I have been able to print 3 things in ABS without a problem.

Go Figure - it was that stupid LCD board. Obviously the word Discount in the name should have been the first clue. Dunno if I have a bad one, or if it was causing an issue with driving the screen and the extra load of the higher temps (never had an issue with the screen and PLA), but it is on the shelf for now.

So - with my small fan shroud on the extruder, the cardboard (for now) thermal break and 2 40mm fans blowing on the controller, I am a printing madman... and finally happy.

Thanks to all for the advice! Now to look for some things to print...

If you're using multiple layers of cardboard you might try a sheet of aluminum foil between them. That would reflect the heat back toward the bed and should speed up heating.

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cislom

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3D52
I took the time yesterday and manually leveled my bed, not only did I learn a lot, my prints are awesome. No more auto level for me.....

So - just for my own knowledge - did you use the existing acrylic mounts and put some springs on, or did you make/mount it to something new? Are you using anything else on top of the aluminum plate?

I was looking to so the same thing, for some reason my auto-level is not as accurate as I would hope.

My next plan is to insulate the plate from the controller and then manually leveling my bed. If I can accomplish this, harmony will once again return to my household

I used the existing acrylic mounts, same screws and nuts, 3 ink pen springs and six thin washers ( I used 1/8 inch pop rivet washers). I'm using blue hawk painters tape on the aluminum plate, I need to figure out another option here because it sticks to well, I'm going to make a clip or a new mount with an inset for my nut, so I don't have to hold it with a wrench. I leveled my bed using these instructions.

Although removing the LCD has fixed your issue, the true culprit might be a weak Ramps board. Removing the extra current of the LCD could be alowing the Ramps board to sustain the needed current to operate.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2015 10:23AM by mmcginnis9272.

has anyone else had trouble with their bed temps continually dropping after being on for just a few minutes? I have added a cork board material as a heatshield and the ramps board seem to be shielded from heat now.

im printing ABS so theyre from 100-110, but it will just gradually fall once the z home finishes probing,

also to disable the z probe do i just need to remove the jumper signal?

Also my last attempt ended in my motors "stuttering" in place then freezing, what can be the cause of that?

thanks in advanced for any help guys this things been a headache for 3 days

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2015 03:31AM by alvinaw11.

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alvinaw11
has anyone else had trouble with their bed temps continually dropping after being on for just a few minutes? I have added a cork board material as a heatshield and the ramps board seem to be shielded from heat now.

im printing ABS so theyre from 100-110, but it will just gradually fall once the z home finishes probing,

also to disable the z probe do i just need to remove the jumper signal?

Also my last attempt ended in my motors "stuttering" in place then freezing, what can be the cause of that?

thanks in advanced for any help guys this things been a headache for 3 days

I had the same problem with the heat. I had to install a heat shield (couple of pieces of cardboard) between the bed and the controller and put in 2 small 40 mm fans that blow across the controller for me to be able to hold the bed temp over 70. I wired up a small switch to be able to turn them off and on since I had no problems printing in PLA with the bed at 50.

I am not sure on the studdering, did that happen in the middle of an ABS print? If so that might be heat related too. I would try a small fan on the controller and see if that helps.

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cislom

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alvinaw11

Also my last attempt ended in my motors "stuttering" in place then freezing, what can be the cause of that?

Studdering our of nowhere is usually causee by a Polulo driver overheating. The Thermal protection kicks in and it studders. After it cools, it will start up again. I recommend:
1. turn down your Polulo reference voltage. (This can cause other problems if you go too low)
2. install heatsinks in Polulo boards if you havent already.
3. install a cooling fan to blow air accross the Polulo drivers (and all electronics)
4. Insulate your heat bed from the Pululo drivers (and all the electronics)