Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

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09zx-6r
*Wall of text.*

Do you mean you get no responses at all in pronterface when issuing a M114 for instance?

There are known problems with the graphics display and deltas, the display takes up to much processing time.

correct... i get no response of any kind when using the FW that folger tech says to use... however it works with marlin 1.0.2 thats currently running my mendel90... display or no display, makes no difference...tried pronterface, repetier, and octoprint, and my normal choice mattercontrol...i even call matterhacker to see if it was the controller and they said its the FW...

---

Nophead Mendel90 Remixed in aluminum
Marlin v2.0
Matterhacker Control (latest)
Ramps 1.4
Sainsmart LCD
MK2B heatbed
E3dV6 hotend .4mm tip
1.75mm filaments
dedicated 12v33a psu
dedicated 12v5a laptop psu mod

Quote
09zx-6r
correct... i get no response of any kind when using the FW that folger tech says to use... however it works with marlin 1.0.2 thats currently running my mendel90... display or no display, makes no difference...tried pronterface, repetier, and octoprint, and my normal choice mattercontrol...i even call matterhacker to see if it was the controller and they said its the FW...

That is strange....
There must be several others who have flashed their firmware in this thread but this is the first I've heard of no communication at all.

I have one of these myself, but I got the rev. A (with a lot of mods to it)
And I got to say I never even tried using the firmware from FolgerTech, it was so outdated so I downloaded 1.03 dev first thing.

thevisad has a Marlin repo based on 1.03 dev: [github.com] that works with this printer.
The 1.03 has now become 1.1 RC though, so maybe its worth configuring from scratch.

baudrate and everything set in the host to match that of the printer?

Maybe you could post your configuration.h?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2015 03:59AM by Koenig.

baudrate at 250000..serial 0... it all registers just fine on the pc on COM3 as Arduino Mega2560...

i just got a FW DL from forum member pazza that hes using on his revision B printer... same as mine.. but his works... ill test in the morning..its 1am here...

strange how it works with marlin 1.0.2 but not the FW directly from FT

---

Nophead Mendel90 Remixed in aluminum
Marlin v2.0
Matterhacker Control (latest)
Ramps 1.4
Sainsmart LCD
MK2B heatbed
E3dV6 hotend .4mm tip
1.75mm filaments
dedicated 12v33a psu
dedicated 12v5a laptop psu mod

Quote
davidf01

Ah I see what you are saying now. So the acrylic that I have my print bed attached to in this picture I should change to something different and more solid?

I used longer screws to hold the hot bed to the acrylic, with a stack of O rings. Changed it to 3 points of attachment instead of 4, much easier to align.
Then cut a piece of glass to lay on the AL hot bed, held in place with a few binder clips. No more worries of a convex bed. Cheap and simple, still use the blue painter tape on the glass and PLA sticks just fine.

Rick

Quote
llamatrails

Quote
davidf01

Ah I see what you are saying now. So the acrylic that I have my print bed attached to in this picture I should change to something different and more solid?

I used longer screws to hold the hot bed to the acrylic, with a stack of O rings. Changed it to 3 points of attachment instead of 4, much easier to align.
Then cut a piece of glass to lay on the AL hot bed, held in place with a few binder clips. No more worries of a convex bed. Cheap and simple, still use the blue painter tape on the glass and PLA sticks just fine.

Rick

Rick, I'm going to have to do something because this print bed is really giving me an issue because of the warped convex shape. How long does it take
For your glass bed take to heat up when you print?
Would out be easier to replace this print bed? Does anyone know of a quality print bed I can buy that would be an easy replacement for this one?

Quote
09zx-6r
baudrate at 250000..serial 0... it all registers just fine on the pc on COM3 as Arduino Mega2560...

i just got a FW DL from forum member pazza that hes using on his revision B printer... same as mine.. but his works... ill test in the morning..its 1am here...

strange how it works with marlin 1.0.2 but not the FW directly from FT

09zx 6r,

I just built the same printer you have. The instructions and help from folder are a complete joke so expect no help from them except for screws.
I loaded the FW that had the KBE in the name. My print head came crashing into the print head also. There are a bunch of changes in the FW you have to change. I'm not at my computer now but will look it up when I get home. Also my carriages are not the correct one and I had to pad them to get then in the right alignment.

You have to invert the z pos in the FW someplace. I will check when I get home.

Quote
davidf01

Rick, I'm going to have to do something because this print bed is really giving me an issue because of the warped convex shape. How long does it take
For your glass bed take to heat up when you print?
Would out be easier to replace this print bed? Does anyone know of a quality print bed I can buy that would be an easy replacement for this one?

I preheat the hotbed and hot end while running my code to exercise/lube the slides prior to the first print of the day which takes a couple of minutes. By then, everything is nicely heated and sliding, so I can run my autoconfig and print. Having the glass plate hasn't impacted the time to first print, I'm usually futzing around with the print code anyway.

Ideally, a cast aluminum plate with a heating pad on it would be the way to go. I'm only printing PLA now, and it isn't worth my time/expense at the moment. Plus, I do want to print, not work on the printer forever.

Rick

Quote
09zx-6r
baudrate at 250000..serial 0... it all registers just fine on the pc on COM3 as Arduino Mega2560...

i just got a FW DL from forum member pazza that hes using on his revision B printer... same as mine.. but his works... ill test in the morning..its 1am here...

strange how it works with marlin 1.0.2 but not the FW directly from FT

09zx-6r

Here are the settings I used in the config.h file that stopped my printer from crashing into the print bed. Try changing some of these and hopefully it will get you going
in the right direction. This is only from the mechanical settings in the FW. Maybe some other people can chime in and see if anything is wrong because I'm no pro
at doing this sort of thing.

//=============================Mechanical Settings===========================
//===========================================================================

// Uncomment the following line to enable CoreXY kinematics
// #define COREXY

// coarse Endstop Settings
#define ENDSTOPPULLUPS // Comment this out (using // at the start of the line) to disable the endstop pullup resistors

#ifndef ENDSTOPPULLUPS
// fine Enstop settings: Individual Pullups. will be ignored if ENDSTOPPULLUPS is defined
// #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_XMAX
// #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_YMAX
// #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMAX
// #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_XMIN
// #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_YMIN
// #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMIN
#endif

#ifdef ENDSTOPPULLUPS
#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_XMAX
#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_YMAX
#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMAX
#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_XMIN
#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_YMIN
//#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMIN
#endif

// The pullups are needed if you directly connect a mechanical endswitch between the signal and ground pins.
const bool X_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = true; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
const bool Y_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = true; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
const bool Z_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = true; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
const bool X_MAX_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = true; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
const bool Y_MAX_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = true; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
const bool Z_MAX_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = true; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
//#define DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS
//#define DISABLE_MIN_ENDSTOPS

// Disable max endstops for compatibility with endstop checking routine
#if defined(COREXY) && !defined(DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS)
#define DISABLE_MAX_ENDSTOPS
#endif

// For Inverting Stepper Enable Pins (Active Low) use 0, Non Inverting (Active High) use 1
#define X_ENABLE_ON 0
#define Y_ENABLE_ON 0
#define Z_ENABLE_ON 0
#define E_ENABLE_ON 0 // For all extruders

// Disables axis when it's not being used.
#define DISABLE_X false
#define DISABLE_Y false
#define DISABLE_Z false
#define DISABLE_E false // For all extruders

#define INVERT_X_DIR false // for Mendel set to false, for Orca set to true
#define INVERT_Y_DIR false // for Mendel set to true, for Orca set to false
#define INVERT_Z_DIR false // for Mendel set to false, for Orca set to true
#define INVERT_E0_DIR true // for direct drive extruder v9 set to true, for geared extruder set to false
#define INVERT_E1_DIR true // for direct drive extruder v9 set to true, for geared extruder set to false
#define INVERT_E2_DIR true // for direct drive extruder v9 set to true, for geared extruder set to false

davidf01...thanks for the bit of info... definitly helps some, but before i can test it i need to get it to communicate properly. i think im goin to port over all the serial and main files from my mendel90 to the folgertech version since i know my mendel works great. basically everything but the LCD, language, SD and any other small files not associated with comms..will post more w/in the day...

---

Nophead Mendel90 Remixed in aluminum
Marlin v2.0
Matterhacker Control (latest)
Ramps 1.4
Sainsmart LCD
MK2B heatbed
E3dV6 hotend .4mm tip
1.75mm filaments
dedicated 12v33a psu
dedicated 12v5a laptop psu mod

well the good news is, i uploaded successfully with the FW from forum member pazza and from davidf01...weird, cuz its the same firmware i think..i didnt go thru all the files and compair them to the old one i had that didnt work..but who cares, it works... now i need to calibrate and figure out why the inductive probe isnt working...

---

Nophead Mendel90 Remixed in aluminum
Marlin v2.0
Matterhacker Control (latest)
Ramps 1.4
Sainsmart LCD
MK2B heatbed
E3dV6 hotend .4mm tip
1.75mm filaments
dedicated 12v33a psu
dedicated 12v5a laptop psu mod

Ok so I have been messing around with the print bed for a bit and have figured out that there is something funky with this aluminum plate. Here is a picture
where you can see where the nozzle scrapes along the bed and no filament can get extruded and then it starts again once it clears the pinched area. I'm guessing
there is no way to correct for this. I contacted Folger but dont have a lot of confidence of getting a reply.

So I'm thinking of just replacing it with a good quality aluminum print bed but I don't know who makes a good quality heated bed and and who makes crappy ones.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to who I can order a heated bed from?

Thx

Seems like your delta radius is off.
Have you done the flatness calibration?
Before you do it, you should try to get your bed as level as possible, I used a right angle, and put washers under the mounts to get it as level as possible.
- Check that the nozzle touches the bed at the same z-height at all three towers + center.
If center is higher, you need to increase #Delta_smooth_rod_offset if i remember correctly.
To get the towers the same height, you can move the endstops, either physically or in firmware. I did it physically, so I don't know how to do it in FW.

And the delta dimensions from folger is inncorrect! I had to measure my printer, enter them into the firmware and recalibrate to get the xy dimensions correct.

Here's a guide: [builda3dprinter.eu]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2015 07:10PM by Joeybane.

Quote
Joeybane
Seems like your delta radius is off.
Have you done the flatness calibration?
Before you do it, you should try to get your bed as level as possible, I used a right angle, and put washers under the mounts to get it as level as possible.
- Check that the nozzle touches the bed at the same z-height at all three towers + center.
If center is higher, you need to increase #Delta_smooth_rod_offset if i remember correctly.
To get the towers the same height, you can move the endstops, either physically or in firmware. I did it physically, so I don't know how to do it in FW.

And the delta dimensions from folger is inncorrect! I had to measure my printer, enter them into the firmware and recalibrate to get the xy dimensions correct.

Here's a guide: [builda3dprinter.eu]

Thanks Joeybane,

The nozzle is great at each tower. The paper test is perfect at each tower and the center. This is where my problem is. I leveled the print bed
but on the side between the Z tower and the X tower if I put the level across from X to Z the level will tetter totter .1 to .2 millimeters. There seems to be a small bulge
on that side and it feathers out towards the Z/Y axis but not completely. I have passed the paper test 50 times at each tower but I get the same in between the tower issue
every time. The problem is the worst between the Z/X axis. Could the Delta smooth rod offset effect only part of the print bed? Plugging the auto level numbers into excel
seems to confirm that between the Z/X axis is higher then the rest and slopping down towards the Y tower. Putting a level on the bed it is pretty level except for the bulge.

What delta dimensions from folger did you have to measure and correct?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2015 07:41PM by davidf01.

Try to level it out with mallet if you have one. But be careful too. I saw someone here did it and it worked for them.

Quote
cman8
Try to level it out with mallet if you have one. But be careful too. I saw someone here did it and it worked for them.

Well I would try but I'm not sure I will be able to do it. I took a straight edge and put it across the print bed holding it down on the X tower side.
Well you can see the gap it has on the Z tower side. If you split that gap in half thats what I end up with on both sides of the bulge in the middle.
It may just be easier to replace this with a better quality print bed then to disconnect all the heater leads and try to bang it flat. Needless to say
it is extremely frustrating being so close to printing quality prints with correct size and scale.

Here is the picture:

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2015 10:12PM by davidf01.

I am late to the party, but was wondering if anyone else had to reverse the motor plugs from what is in the folger documentation? also, how do you disable the auto bed leveling for the kossel rev b?

Quote
plrmaker7
I am late to the party, but was wondering if anyone else had to reverse the motor plugs from what is in the folger documentation? also, how do you disable the auto bed leveling for the kossel rev b?

Just dont use the G29 code and it wont auto level. It does not run the auto level automatically.

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davidf01

Quote
plrmaker7
I am late to the party, but was wondering if anyone else had to reverse the motor plugs from what is in the folger documentation? also, how do you disable the auto bed leveling for the kossel rev b?

Just dont use the G29 code and it wont auto level. It does not run the auto level automatically.

Ok, thanks for the response! Am I correct regarding the motor wire orientation?

Quote
plrmaker7

Quote
davidf01

Quote
plrmaker7
I am late to the party, but was wondering if anyone else had to reverse the motor plugs from what is in the folger documentation? also, how do you disable the auto bed leveling for the kossel rev b?

Just dont use the G29 code and it wont auto level. It does not run the auto level automatically.

Ok, thanks for the response! Am I correct regarding the motor wire orientation?

My motors and wires were installed like the documentation and work correctly.

Its not a big deal to reverse motor wires. I have done it, but I did upgrade my motors so thats probably why I had to reverse them to work correctly. I think the other way is to do it in the FW too.

I have the Rev B. with the inductive proximity sensor. I can home with G28 fine, but when I try the G29 to probe the bed, it moves down to about 30mm above the bed then "dances" up and tries to crash through the endstops???? Any help would be greatly appreciated....

Quote
plrmaker7
I have the Rev B. with the inductive proximity sensor. I can home with G28 fine, but when I try the G29 to probe the bed, it moves down to about 30mm above the bed then "dances" up and tries to crash through the endstops???? Any help would be greatly appreciated....

Scroll up on this page I posted parts of my firmware and some code that works for me. You can try comparing that code to whats is in your firmware. It worked for me. You will also have to adjust your prob settings in the firmware
so it probs a larger area on your print bed.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2015 03:58PM by davidf01.

Here are some probe settings that I use and it seems to work well.

Ok so here are my settings for the inductive probe. FYI so Folgers instructions stink when it comes to this info. I looked at the pictures they have on the google
site but even those show different things. The blue wire has to be wired to the V- on the power supply. The pictures on the web site show it wired to the neutral and V-
so you have no clue where it goes. If you have the capacitors wired right you should get it working. The -.7 in the setting #define Z_PROBE_OFFSET {0,0,-.7,0}
you will have to measure depending on how high off the print bed your probe triggers. You can test it be using pronterface and stepping the print head down till you see
red light get brighter. When that happens the probe triggered, you should note the Z pos using M114 and use that number in the setting. #define Z_PROBE_OFFSET

Not sure if you have read my posts on the form but my print bed has a bulge in it and I dont think I can over come it with endstop settings. Check your print bed for flatness
and contact Folger if it is out of wack. I sent them an email asking for a replacement so we will see what happens. I may just upgrade to a much better bed.


#define AUTOLEVEL_GRID 20
// 26 Distance between autolevel Z probing points, should be less than print surface radius/3.
//// MOVEMENT SETTINGS
#define NUM_AXIS 4 // The axis order in all axis related arrays is X, Y, Z, E
#define HOMING_FEEDRATE {80*60, 80*60, 80*60, 0} // set the homing speeds (mm/min)

#define Z_RAISE_BETWEEN_PROBING=3
#define Z_PROBE_OFFSET {0,-30,-.7,0} // (0, 14, -6.5, 0){24.6,-21,0,0}{24.6,-21,0,0} X, Y, Z, E distance between hotend nozzle and deployed bed leveling probe.(0,19,-8,0)

// default settings

#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {80, 80, 80, 103.7}
#define DEFAULT_MAX_FEEDRATE {2500, 2500, 2500, 400} // (mm/sec)
#define DEFAULT_MAX_ACCELERATION {5000,5000,5000,1000} // X, Y, Z, E maximum start speed for accelerated moves. E default values are good for skeinforge 40+, for older versions raise them a lot.

#define DEFAULT_ACCELERATION 2000 // X, Y, Z and E max acceleration in mm/s^2 for printing moves
#define DEFAULT_RETRACT_ACCELERATION 8000 // X, Y, Z and E max acceleration in mm/s^2 for retracts wired correctly you should get it to work.

Ok so I'm trying to calibrate my print as best I can while I'm trying to figure out what to do with my warped build bed.
I ran a simple 3mm star print so I could measure how accurate the printer is. I noticed that there is space between the
perimeter shells and I'm thinking there shouldn't be any space there. You can see what I'm talking about in this picture.
If I'm correct and these should be solid what is it that I should be looking to adjust? Should there be more filament coming
out of the nozzle so it spreads out more or should the nozzle be closer to the plate?

Thanks

davidf01, have you tried to do the bed leveling calibration with the bed at temp ? i had a similar issue with my mendel90 and a cheapo aluminum HB... as it warmed up it warped in the center, so i did a calibration while hot and just did all my prints with the bed on...works perfectly.. for me anyway... just a thought

---

Nophead Mendel90 Remixed in aluminum
Marlin v2.0
Matterhacker Control (latest)
Ramps 1.4
Sainsmart LCD
MK2B heatbed
E3dV6 hotend .4mm tip
1.75mm filaments
dedicated 12v33a psu
dedicated 12v5a laptop psu mod

Quote
09zx-6r
davidf01, have you tried to do the bed leveling calibration with the bed at temp ? i had a similar issue with my mendel90 and a cheapo aluminum HB... as it warmed up it warped in the center, so i did a calibration while hot and just did all my prints with the bed on...works perfectly.. for me anyway... just a thought

09zx-6r,

Yes I have calibrated with a hot bed and a hot nozzle. It does help a little bit but not enough to over come all of the bulge. I think it is just a really strange
plate that may have been a little off when they cut it. Thank for the input, every little but helps.

Quote
davidf01

Quote
09zx-6r
davidf01, have you tried to do the bed leveling calibration with the bed at temp ? i had a similar issue with my mendel90 and a cheapo aluminum HB... as it warmed up it warped in the center, so i did a calibration while hot and just did all my prints with the bed on...works perfectly.. for me anyway... just a thought

09zx-6r,

Yes I have calibrated with a hot bed and a hot nozzle. It does help a little bit but not enough to over come all of the bulge. I think it is just a really strange
plate that may have been a little off when they cut it. Thank for the input, every little but helps.

This is pure and simple thermodynamics and mechanical properties of what you are dealing with. The aluminum most likely was not "miscut" even thick ass brake rotors warp while sitting on the shelf waiting for customers to purchase them. The plate has solder points in the middle, when you rest a stack together the ones in the middle will bend due to the weight from above. Add to that the PCB heating up and causing an additional warping issue. I corrected the bulge in my plate by mounting it to a hard surface by the bolts and knocked it in the center with a rubber mallet. This flattened the curve out, I then mounted it to the printer onto the larger aluminum plate to try and prevent further warping. If you want to eliminate the bulge and get pure flatness, switch to glass and a polyamid heater with adhesive on it, like these here.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2015 09:34AM by thevisad.

Quote
thevisad

Quote
davidf01

Quote
09zx-6r
davidf01, have you tried to do the bed leveling calibration with the bed at temp ? i had a similar issue with my mendel90 and a cheapo aluminum HB... as it warmed up it warped in the center, so i did a calibration while hot and just did all my prints with the bed on...works perfectly.. for me anyway... just a thought

09zx-6r,

Yes I have calibrated with a hot bed and a hot nozzle. It does help a little bit but not enough to over come all of the bulge. I think it is just a really strange
plate that may have been a little off when they cut it. Thank for the input, every little but helps.

This is pure and simple thermodynamics and mechanical properties of what you are dealing with. The aluminum most likely was not "miscut" even thick ass brake rotors warp while sitting on the shelf waiting for customers to purchase them. The plate has solder points in the middle, when you rest a stack together the ones in the middle will bend due to the weight from above. Add to that the PCB heating up and causing an additional warping issue. I corrected the bulge in my plate by mounting it to a hard surface by the bolts and knocked it in the center with a rubber mallet. This flattened the curve out, I then mounted it to the printer onto the larger aluminum plate to try and prevent further warping. If you want to eliminate the bulge and get pure flatness, switch to glass and a polyamid heater with adhesive on it, like these here.

thevisad, now we are talking. I assume you are talking about the silicone pad or would the kapton heat bed work also on a pice of glass? Also would the 12v 120w version be the correct one to buy for this printer. I can't find the specs on
the heat bed that came with this printer. Also I think somebody said I could just buy a piece of glass and put it ontop of my current plate. I think that would correct the uneven part and still get heated? I think I will
try a piece of Borosilicate Glass ontop of the plate I have now. My question is how would I level the glass on top of the aluminum plate do I just shim it?

Thanks again for the advise.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2015 12:28PM by davidf01.

Help with calibration - questions:

1. G29 only probes 1 half of bed - is this caused by incorrect z probe offset setting? the distance between my nozzle and zprobe was -37mm. I put {0,-37,-.7,0} in config and it only probes right side.

2. Does EEPROM need to be turned on for the proximity sensor to work?

3. Do I still have to adjust each tower endstop?