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Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

Posted by Kasahabo 
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 10, 2015 03:42PM
As I understand it (and please correct me if I am wrong), Folger expects the RAMPS board to supply 5V to the servo, and feeds the RAMPS board from 12V only. That is guaranteed to overheat the voltage regulator on the Arduino.

If you want a Z probe that works without putting excessive current drain on the Arduino 5V regulator, may I suggest my own mini differential IR Z probe, [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]. As used by Think3DPrint3D in their Mini Kossel kit, and E3D in their BigBox printer.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 10, 2015 03:44PM
Quote
Captain_Tim
Do you have any pictures of what it looks like? It sounds amazing. I was thinking of getting one of these, cutting it to fit the bottom and top, hooking it up to a switch and 3 potentiometers (to control the colour).
12V RGB LED Strip - 5M

That could be pretty cool! I like the thought of having color control. Creating your own manual controller with pots would eliminate the need to purchase the remote separately. I am at work and do not have any pics of that printer on my phone. I have the entire Folger Kossel build, tons of prints and awesome projects, but none of my Frankenstein printer. I bought my first printer as a QUBD 2UP kit, learned what a printer should not be, then tore it apart. Kept the electronics, rods, screw, bearings and motors. Tossed the rest in the trash and proceeded to completely design and build my own printer from scratch. It is a cartesian H-bot style like the QUBD but much bigger and solid as a tank with 1" 8020 extrusions and 1/4" aluminum heated bed, etc. Ugly as hell, but makes absolutely beautiful prints. That's one reason I went for a delta for my 3rd - I wanted something faster and a lot more elegant looking.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2015 04:09PM by Vlerherg.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 10, 2015 04:06PM
Quote
fattmann
As a related question, what springs are you using for bed leveling? I've seen some on a couple websites, but figured it would be something I could pick up locally if I knew the preferred spring rates/lengths and what not.

Can't really comment on the probe/servo, as I have never used one myself. Even on my cartesian printer I use manual leveling and lock the leveling screws in place with a nut above and below the fixed mount. I have to adjust it maybe once every few months or when I switch to a different diameter nozzle. Did the same with the kossel. As for springs, I do not think there is any real standard. I picked up a $5 variety pack of springs (about 200 or so) from Harbor Freight and nested three different diameters until I ended up with something that was nice and firm, but not overly hard to adjust.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2015 04:10PM by Vlerherg.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 10, 2015 04:28PM
Quote
fattmann
As a related question, what springs are you using for bed leveling? I've seen some on a couple websites, but figured it would be something I could pick up locally if I knew the preferred spring rates/lengths and what not.

Almost any springs that strong enough to support the bed + 1kg roll of filament smiling smiley My springs are not so strong, actually. Sometimes, when I use scraper to detach printed model, I push it too much and the bed goes down, sometimes not only one side. After that everything is still perfectly leveled.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 10, 2015 04:49PM
Quote
Vlerherg
That could be pretty cool! I like the thought of having color control. Creating your own manual controller with pots would eliminate the need to purchase the remote separately. I am at work and do not have any pics of that printer on my phone. I have the entire Folger Kossel build, tons of prints and awesome projects, but none of my Frankenstein printer. I bought my first printer as a QUBD 2UP kit, learned what a printer should not be, then tore it apart. Kept the electronics, rods, screw, bearings and motors. Tossed the rest in the trash and proceeded to completely design and build my own printer from scratch. It is a cartesian H-bot style like the QUBD but much bigger and solid as a tank with 1" 8020 extrusions and 1/4" aluminum heated bed, etc. Ugly as hell, but makes absolutely beautiful prints. That's one reason I went for a delta for my 3rd - I wanted something faster and a lot more elegant looking.

I currently have a Two Up... My goodness is this thing a pain in my lower region! I'm getting this Kossel to add a Delta, this will be my second printer and I think delta's look awesome! This Kossel will be used to print parts to fix/upgrade my Two Up, then in the summer, I think I'll turn my Two Up into a 3up, as designed by "ddegonge888" here: 3up. He can also be found on Youtube as "3DPrintedLife" and he just released a new printer called the Eclips3d. So yeah, hopefully mid summer, this two up will be no more. At least I know how these printers work mechanically.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 10, 2015 05:15PM
Quote
Captain_Tim
I currently have a Two Up... My goodness is this thing a pain in my lower region! I'm getting this Kossel to add a Delta, this will be my second printer and I think delta's look awesome! This Kossel will be used to print parts to fix/upgrade my Two Up, then in the summer, I think I'll turn my Two Up into a 3up, as designed by "ddegonge888" here: 3up. He can also be found on Youtube as "3DPrintedLife" and he just released a new printer called the Eclips3d. So yeah, hopefully mid summer, this two up will be no more. At least I know how these printers work mechanically.

I used to be active in the QUBD forums when I had the Two Up. I didn't have as many problems with it as a lot of folks did, which I attribute to meticulous assembly, which is about the only way to make that bag of MDF work well. Before I tore it up, it was heavily modded (pulley mod, replaced entire X gantry, upgraded z-screw flange and flex coupler (did not even come with one that early on), extruder, hot-end, heated bed, etc....). I knew about the 3uP "mod" (really a whole new printer just re-using the metal from the two-up) but wanted the experience of starting from scratch. I kept the moving bed in the Y-axis, but in retrospect I should have built it with the bed on the Z-axis. I used the beast to re-print all of the plastic for the kossel and have used the kossel to fix broken parts on the beast. It is a symbiotic relationship.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 10, 2015 05:26PM
Quote
Vlerherg
I used to be active in the QUBD forums when I had the Two Up. I didn't have as many problems with it as a lot of folks did, which I attribute to meticulous assembly, which is about the only way to make that bag of MDF work well. Before I tore it up, it was heavily modded (pulley mod, replaced entire X gantry, upgraded z-screw flange and flex coupler (did not even come with one that early on), extruder, hot-end, heated bed, etc....). I knew about the 3uP "mod" (really a whole new printer just re-using the metal from the two-up) but wanted the experience of starting from scratch. I kept the moving bed in the Y-axis, but in retrospect I should have built it with the bed on the Z-axis. I used the beast to re-print all of the plastic for the kossel and have used the kossel to fix broken parts on the beast. It is a symbiotic relationship.

I also bought it to early to have it come with a flex coupler. I got a E3D Lite6 for it, and had the pulley mod. That's as far as I got with it. Tried to upgrade the Y-Drive, but now there appears to be to much tension on the stepper motor to be able to drive it properly, so I'm putting it aside as I build this one. I love how printers can work to upgrade and fix each other. Hail our printer overlords!
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 11, 2015 06:20PM
So I started my kit today. It took my much longer then I'd like to admit to get just that base done. While doing this, I noticed that it requires around 24 m3 T-nuts for the base, and another 12 m3 T-Nuts for the top. The packaging says it contains 16 2020 m3 T-Nuts, but I had 20, still not enough. So now I suppose I should find some t-Nuts... great.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 11, 2015 06:35PM
Nevermind. I was looking at the wrong set of instructions. It would seem the Rev B is not the set of instructions that I need, instead, I need to use the draft copy. That copy seems to have the aluminum corners, and it uses m4 x 10mm and M4 Tnuts instead of M3. Time to take it apart.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 11, 2015 07:25PM
Hopefully you fare better than I, but don't be surprised if you run out of hardware. I was short t-nuts, and three different sizes of bolts, jumpers, and a plug. Many others have reported missing parts as well.

Thankfully Folger Tech was able to send out more hardware, but it may take a little while.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2015 07:25PM by fattmann.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 11, 2015 07:34PM
I think the main problem is wrong hardware sizes in instruction. I had a lot of short screws and with some patience and curse words it was possible to use them for frame assembly. Sometimes I hat do cut longer screws. FolgerTech sells overall good quality parts, but poor assembly manual and bad hardware organization scream "don't buy from us again! we hate customers! they are idiots that can't read forums!".

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2015 07:42PM by paul_delta.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 11, 2015 07:49PM
Heck, it's so easy for Folgertech - I'm sure there are a lot of people on this forum who will with pleasure make step by step assembly/calibration video - just send them free sample/kit.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 11, 2015 08:02PM
Quote
paul_delta
Heck, it's so easy for Folgertech - I'm sure there are a lot of people on this forum who will with pleasure make step by step assembly/calibration video - just send them free sample/kit.

Well what took me around 13 hours to do took me 40 minutes to do once I found the right instructions. So far everything seems good, but they do really need to manage and update their manuals more. Also, would it be so much more work if Folgertech could just bag each indiviual sized piece of hardware in their own bag, so all m3x10 go in one bag and so on.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 11, 2015 08:08PM
BTW can anyone recommend a good place to buy inexpensive set of metric nuts/screws in US? Like bunch of sizes, for life.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 11, 2015 08:16PM
Lucky. Took my brother and I a week working 6hrs a day to get it together. Instructions were awful in some parts, and we had to hand file/drill all the 3D pieces rather significantly to make things fit.

I want to get the aluminum corners, but have also heard horror stories of people having to ratchet strap it together they were so poorly formed.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 11, 2015 08:33PM
Quote
fattmann
Lucky. Took my brother and I a week working 6hrs a day to get it together. Instructions were awful in some parts, and we had to hand file/drill all the 3D pieces rather significantly to make things fit.

I want to get the aluminum corners, but have also heard horror stories of people having to ratchet strap it together they were so poorly formed.

Took me about an hour/hour and a half to get both the top and bottom frame assembled. Hard to get at some of the screws. Using the M4x10mm and M4 T-Nuts made it a lot easier then trying to do it with M3x8mm with not enough M3 T-Nuts
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 02:48AM
Adafruit.com sells the t nuts and screws


Nophead Mendel90 Remixed in aluminum
Marlin v2.0
Matterhacker Control (latest)
Ramps 1.4
Sainsmart LCD
MK2B heatbed
E3dV6 hotend .4mm tip
1.75mm filaments
dedicated 12v33a psu
dedicated 12v5a laptop psu mod
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 09:56AM
I recently printed out a calibration sample and the text was inverted. Is this an easy fix in the firmware? I tried inverting the x-axis, but after seeing the results, and thinking about it for a couple of seconds, I'm guessing that only works for Cartesian machines.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 10:01AM
Quote
Legrand
I recently printed out a calibration sample and the text was inverted. Is this an easy fix in the firmware? I tried inverting the x-axis, but after seeing the results, and thinking about it for a couple of seconds, I'm guessing that only works for Cartesian machines.

[github.com]
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 10:04AM
Quote
paul_delta
[github.com]

Thanks for the link. I'll keep that for future reference and I hope that solves Legrand's problem.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 02:52PM
Does anyone happen to have the ball bearing size for the linear rail sliders (or how many are supposed to be in each block)?

I tore down the worst one last night and it certainly seems like I am missing a few, which I hear is a common problem. I cleaned, then lubed the hell out of it with gun oil- still rolls like crap...
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 04:20PM
Anyone who cut their diagonal rods to be around 250mm, what was your build size? I'm almost at the part where I need to cut them, and I'm deciding if I should go with the recommended 230mm or go for a 250mm
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 04:56PM
Quote
Captain_Tim
Anyone who cut their diagonal rods to be around 250mm, what was your build size? I'm almost at the part where I need to cut them, and I'm deciding if I should go with the recommended 230mm or go for a 250mm
I made mine 250 mm total length but my build is not finished yet.
My goal is to get a higher lowest angel on the arms to reduce the impact of build errors and also a bit larger build area. 50/50 between the two is the plan at the moment. I got a rev A kit so I will not lose much in build hight but, if I get it right, I will lose resolution when the effector is moving towards a tower.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2015 04:57PM by SlowFoot.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 05:11PM
Quote
SlowFoot
Quote
Captain_Tim
Anyone who cut their diagonal rods to be around 250mm, what was your build size? I'm almost at the part where I need to cut them, and I'm deciding if I should go with the recommended 230mm or go for a 250mm
I made mine 250 mm total length but my build is not finished yet.
My goal is to get a higher lowest angel on the arms to reduce the impact of build errors and also a bit larger build area. 50/50 between the two is the plan at the moment. I got a rev A kit so I will not lose much in build hight but, if I get it right, I will lose resolution when the effector is moving towards a tower.

What is your planned build area? I'd like a 210mm diameter from mine. I'm willing to sacrifice some height for that
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 05:21PM
Quote
Captain_Tim
Quote
SlowFoot
Quote
Captain_Tim
Anyone who cut their diagonal rods to be around 250mm, what was your build size? I'm almost at the part where I need to cut them, and I'm deciding if I should go with the recommended 230mm or go for a 250mm
I made mine 250 mm total length but my build is not finished yet.
My goal is to get a higher lowest angel on the arms to reduce the impact of build errors and also a bit larger build area. 50/50 between the two is the plan at the moment. I got a rev A kit so I will not lose much in build hight but, if I get it right, I will lose resolution when the effector is moving towards a tower.

What is your planned build area? I'd like a 210mm diameter from mine. I'm willing to sacrifice some height for that

I don't think that you will be able to print 210mm circle with 250mm rods. Mine are 230mm and my max printable diameter is 158mm. I'd expect around 195mm with 250mm rods.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 05:24PM
Quote
paul_delta
I don't think that you will be able to print 210mm circle with 250mm rods. Mine are 230mm and my max printable diameter is 158mm. I'd expect around 195mm with 250mm rods.
Well that's close enough for me. It's larger then my Two Up and that's what I wanted for it. That's an estimate for a 250mm total arm length, correct?
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 05:30PM
Quote
Captain_Tim
Quote
paul_delta
I don't think that you will be able to print 210mm circle with 250mm rods. Mine are 230mm and my max printable diameter is 158mm. I'd expect around 195mm with 250mm rods.
Well that's close enough for me. It's larger then my Two Up and that's what I wanted for it. That's an estimate for a 250mm total arm length, correct?

Yes, my calculation was simple - we have the bottleneck when one of arms is almost parallel to the bed, trying to reach the opposite side. With my 230mm I have 158mm diameter, extra 20mm will increase the radius (very rough estimate) to 20mm when the arm is parallel to the bed, so the diameter will be 158+40 minus 2mm-5mm.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2015 05:35PM by paul_delta.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 05:37PM
Quote
SlowFoot
Quote
Captain_Tim
Anyone who cut their diagonal rods to be around 250mm, what was your build size? I'm almost at the part where I need to cut them, and I'm deciding if I should go with the recommended 230mm or go for a 250mm
I made mine 250 mm total length but my build is not finished yet.
My goal is to get a higher lowest angel on the arms to reduce the impact of build errors and also a bit larger build area. 50/50 between the two is the plan at the moment. I got a rev A kit so I will not lose much in build hight but, if I get it right, I will lose resolution when the effector is moving towards a tower.

I'm not big on the particular math here but isn't it the other way around, you always have the worst resolution in the center of the build-plate?
My train of thought: Closer to the center small movements of the carriages (fewer steps) yields larger movements in the XY-plane than at the towers where the carriages have to move much more to move the effector same lenght as in the middle, except the carriage at the tower you are close to, but the closer you get the less that carriage affects the movement in the XY-plane (only acts as a Z-axis when the rods are perpendicular to the bed)
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 05:59PM
Just to show the ability of printer with default configuration.

I printed this very small DIY part (joint for my son's action figure) with 0.1 mm layer and I was very happy with result - it's amazing that 0.4mm nozzle is able to produce such small part very accurate. It was in the center of bed:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2015 06:00PM by paul_delta.
Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
November 12, 2015 06:13PM
Quote
Koenig
Quote
jroever
Had my Rev A for a while and everything calibrated nicely ... but always noticed these weird jolts on my extruder - thought in the beginning these were actually retracts but checked the code - no retract commands ...
Finally came across somebody with a Rostock Max mentioning something similar - linked to #define AXIS_RELATIVE_MODES {false, false, false, false} in Configuration_adv.h
Experimentally changed mine to #define AXIS_RELATIVE_MODES {false, false, false, true} and oh what a difference! While my prints were very precise I apparently did not get consistent feed rates which was definitely noticeable
on my translucent PLA prints. My red translucent prints now look like top grade ahi sashimi, while before they looked like, well, cheap plastic smiling smiley

It makes sense to me that extruder mode should be relative feeds instead of absolute - so if for some reason feed gets back logged the error is dropped and it is not constantly fighting to catch up (my interpretation)...
Any comments or observations welcome. And if you are running with folgertech firmware defaults you might want to try the new settings. Really surprised I did not find more hits when googling the topic.

Just as information for those who intend to try this: You must also set something like "Relative extrusion distances" (S3D, what it is called in other slicers I don't know) in your slicer for it to work properly.

Relative extrusion is preferable as you get rid of some rounding errors.

That is interesting - I checked my Slic3r setting and "use relative E distances" is unchecked! Time for some reverse engineering why this combination was working at all ...
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