Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

Update:

Still have the same problem of all inputs for moving the head result in the entire carriage assembly moving straight up. I tried changing:

const bool Z_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = true; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.

to:

const bool Z_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = false; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.

and while that resulted in the Z_MIN always reporting "open" (even when I placed some metal under the probe to trigger it), it didn't change the behavior. Should I just disconnect the probe entirely?

Also, I have no idea why, but now the X/Y/Z max end stops work properly (i.e. the carriage does not keep trying to go up after triggering one of the end stops). I do not know why this suddenly started functioning, but it did... progress (?) I guess...

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chaster
Thanks paul_delta, will do. EDIT: Um, this is a stupid question - but what is the proper way to disable my z-probe? I tried to disable it by uncommenting the following line in my Configuration.h file:

EDIT #2: I figured out how to properly disable end stops (by editing pins.h) using information from this webpage: [ohmeye.com]
(hopefully, others who encounter the same problems as I will see this post and find it helpful). However, I'm still seeing the same behavior with all servos moving in sync to raise the print head straight up no matter what kind of input I give them from Repetier-host..

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//#define DISABLE_MIN_ENDSTOPS

But that didn't seem to make any difference.... I apologize for the newb questions. I appreciate your help a LOT.

Eric

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paul_delta
triggered z-min is the source of problem. disable your probe completely and try again.

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chaster
Hi everyone,

I have been following this thread for quite a while as I slowly have been putting together my FT Kossel RevB. I finally got it all together and powered up, but as my last post above shows, I have some issues... One is the Z_MIN always being TRIGGERED regardless of whether or not the light comes on, but I am going to try re-wiring it (it currently has the blue wire connected to ground, whereas I see that most people have it connected to V-). If that doesn't fix it, I will try removing the resistors and just connecting to 5V as a previous poster mentioned it works for him that way..

My main issue though, is that using Repetier-Host (and the FT Marlin firmware compiled using Arduino and flashed with no errors), no matter what I do with the manual controls, they all just result in all the carriages moving up until they hit the end stops... and they don't stop when hitting the end stops either. If I try to do a 0.1mm move on Z, it just goes up and keeps going up. Same if I try to do a move on X or Y or even extruder (!).. It was not like this at first, so I thought perhaps I had messed up the firmware, so I re-compiled the FT firmware (with no changes) and reuploaded to the printer... same problem still persists though...

Any clues as to why all the movement commands just end up causing the entire print head to move straight up? Did I fry something?

Thanks for all of the help you folks have already given... I'm still learning and all this shared info is great...

Eric

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2016 07:28PM by chaster.

Inverting z-probe you just opened it forever because your probe doesn't work (wrong resistors wiring, wrong pin on RAMPS, etc). But now firmware doesn't try to get off the bed thinking that z-probe is triggered. Check your z-probe wiring, resistors. Or just disconnect it and calibrate manually. Or load my Repetier configuration, probably your Marlin is just misconfigured: [forums.reprap.org]

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chaster
Update:

Still have the same problem of all inputs for moving the head result in the entire carriage assembly moving straight up. I tried changing:

const bool Z_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = true; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.

to:

const bool Z_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING = false; // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.

and while that resulted in the Z_MIN always reporting "open" (even when I placed some metal under the probe to trigger it), it didn't change the behavior. Should I just disconnect the probe entirely?

Also, I have no idea why, but now the X/Y/Z max end stops work properly (i.e. the carriage does not keep trying to go up after triggering one of the end stops). I do not know why this suddenly started functioning, but it did... progress (?) I guess...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2016 08:42PM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

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chaster
but what is the proper way to disable my z-probe?

Looks like Marlin doesn't have such option, so you can edit pins.h and change pin to unused. Or disconnect the probe and make sure that firmware returns "open/not triggered" state.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2016 08:52PM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

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paul_delta

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chaster
but what is the proper way to disable my z-probe?

Looks like Marlin doesn't have such option, so you can edit pins.h and change pin to unused. Or disconnect the probe and make sure that firmware returns "open/not triggered" state.

I did this (edited pins.h):

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#define Z_MIN_PIN -1 //18 // autolevel for deltabot

but it didn't seem to have any noticeable effect on the behavior (although m119 reported only X_MAX, Y_MAX, and Z_MAX and no Z_MIN). I think the next step I will try is (as you suggest) just to physically remove the probe completely from the setup. If THAT doesn't work, then I will try the Repetier firmware that you so graciously provided.

Thank you again paul_delta. I will report back asap.

UPDATE #1: I completely disconnected the z-probe from everything (even power) and m119 reports x_max, y_max, and z_max all OPEN (and no mention of z_min). Same behavior still present. Welp, I'm tossing in the towel on Marlin for now and going to try the Repetier FW....

UDPATE #2: Hurrah! The Repetier Firmware works (mostly). My vertical motion is reversed, but I should be able to fix that just by reversing the connections, and my extruder is not functioning, but I see that as relatively minor. I am just glad to see it actually moving as expected when I try to manually move it. Thank you so much paul_delta!

UPDATE #3: I've got the vertical motion going in the right direction now (reversed the connections). However, the extruder is still not functioning (but I haven't fiddled with that much yet). Another issue has cropped back up: the end stops are not stopping the motion when triggered (and I know they are working because I get a message in Repetier-host saying "end stops hit...")... Getting closer...

UPDATE #4: I just figured out why the end stops weren't working properly - the end stops didn't match up with the servos (i.e. X end stop was on the rail for the Z motor, etc.) so that messed up the homing process... *facepalm*... I'm so dumb. Now to move some connections.. and... that fixed it. Homing now works correctly. (so dumb of me... shaking my head.. lol) Extruder still not functioning though.. hmmmm..

UPDATE #5: Another *facepalm* moment. The extruder works. I just forgot to heat up the extruder first, so the min temp safety was preventing it from working. Yay. Now to get to calibrating.

Eric

Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2016 02:38PM by chaster.

I thought I'd add an update on my status with my printer. I could not for the life of me get any eeprom settings to work and take hold properly with any of the different firmware versions I tried. Despite that, the process of figuring it out helped me wrap my head around the entire calibration process much better. I fell back on my strength, the mechanical side of things. I added some quick DIY spring loaded levelers to the bed, at the base of each tower, and leveled it that way. I leveled it with the nozzle at Z0 at a point in front of each tower. I am using the stock marlin firmware, with my exact figures in the delta section. It seems my delta radius is spot on. I made my arms longer than called for in the instructions, in order to be sure I could reach all around the bed once I add a larger glass plate on top. This seems to not cause any issues. I went with 256mm, center to center. I was trying to make my jig 255, but there you have it. I used one jig to do all 6 arms, one at a time. I know they are exactly the same. It seems to have paid off. The parts are coming out dimensionally accurate, and square.

I decided at this point to print some parts. I ran off a few keychain doodads and was happy with my first layer adhesion. I have an LCD for my printer, but didn't want to install it until I got the machine running, and could make an enclosure for it. So this was to be my first big print. I started printing, only to realize a few layers in, that it had clipped off both ends of the enclosure and not printed past a certain point. I stopped the print, realizing something in firmware was limiting the max radius. I know my arms are long enough to reach the full bed without too much distortion, so I just had to track down the right setting in the configuration.h. Sure enough I found it, in the endstop settings, with all the other mechanical stuff. I simply adjusted the max travel to 90 or -90, as appropriate, to give the printer access to 180mm diameter section of the plate(still not the entire thing, but the screws are there for now and I dont want to accidentally run the nozzle into them). After the adjustment, I began printing, and said a little prayer to the 3d printing gods. It was going to take 6 hours to print. I got some lifting on two corners after about the 50th layer, but it held on, and lifted slowly enough to not ruin the print. I need to raise the bed .05mm in front of one tower, and the lifting should disappear. Here's what the print looked like right after finishing:


And after a little bit of cleanup:

It looks like it will still line up with the lcd module and it's screw holes, despite the corner lifting. It's a very nice fit against the base of the printer. The thingiverse item number for this is 1237708. I haven't installed it yet, as I'm still busy printing more items.

You can clearly see I need to tune my extruder/hotend. But since I haven't even tried to do so yet, I'm happy with where I'm at, relative to a few days ago.

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread! It's been a great help in learning all this new stuff!

You can use M302 command to allow cold extrusion - when you will calibrate your extrusion steps. M302 S1 will disallow cold extrusion.

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chaster
UPDATE #5: Another *facepalm* moment. The extruder works. I just forgot to heat up the extruder first, so the min temp safety was preventing it from working. Yay. Now to get to calibrating.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Ahhh. Thank you for the tip, paul_delta. Much appreciated.

As an aside - one of my servos driving the X rail has decided to bind up. I am not particularly surprised. It was binding up earlier, so I took it apart and out popped a metal shaving (!). I think there is still more 'gunk' in there for me to clean out. Hopefully, it's not a case of the bearings failing... [me doesn't want to buy another motor right now]...

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paul_delta
You can use M302 command to allow cold extrusion - when you will calibrate your extrusion steps. M302 S1 will disallow cold extrusion.

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chaster
UPDATE #5: Another *facepalm* moment. The extruder works. I just forgot to heat up the extruder first, so the min temp safety was preventing it from working. Yay. Now to get to calibrating.

I'd say that the print looks very good and extruder calibration is OK. You can play with retraction amount and speed (and probably reduce hotend temperature) to get rid of these strings.

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faithblinded
You can clearly see I need to tune my extruder/hotend. But since I haven't even tried to do so yet, I'm happy with where I'm at, relative to a few days ago.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2016 04:28PM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

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paul_delta
I'd say that the print looks very good and extruder calibration is OK. You can play with retraction amount and speed (and probably reduce hotend temperature) to get rid of these strings.

Thanks Paul. Sadly, the hotend just went cold 2.5hrs into a 4hr print and I don't know why. Once I figure it out, I'll look at trying a lower temp, and mucking around with the retraction settings. Do you have any recommendations for retractions settings with the stock extruder?

For Folgertech PLA I use 7mm retraction with 60mm/s speed and 0.1mm vertical lift and 180C hotend temperature.

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faithblinded
Do you have any recommendations for retractions settings with the stock extruder?

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Has anyone found a fully printable spool holder that works well with the stock revB configuration? This dumb acrylic arm is making me nuts, I have to babysit the thing for it to feed.

I just got my rev b delta printer after Christmas and i got it all built and set up and i can get good dimensional prints in the middle of the plate.
But where i am having problems is getting the bed to level, i got the flatness or what ever it talks about in the configuration figured out
and i got the nozzle to pass the paper test under all three towers and in the middle.
The first problem is that when i move the extruder across the x axis the auto level sensor is lined up with it and at the outer edges the extruder tilts and causes the sensor to hit the bed and drag through my prints.
The second problem is that the print bed is still not level even with the auto level turned on or off below is a picture with it off of a astrisk test print first layer.

Looks like your diagonal rods are not equal. If you have a tilt only across one axis - diagonal rods of just one set (the pair of rods that serves the tower) are not equal.
You may try to find such rod, soak the end of the rod in acetone, disassemble and re-glue it, adjusting the lenght. You can make a jig using dimensions of second rod from this set to make sure that they will be equal.

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zavala
I just got my rev b delta printer after Christmas and i got it all built and set up and i can get good dimensional prints in the middle of the plate.
But where i am having problems is getting the bed to level, i got the flatness or what ever it talks about in the configuration figured out
and i got the nozzle to pass the paper test under all three towers and in the middle.
The first problem is that when i move the extruder across the x axis the auto level sensor is lined up with it and at the outer edges the extruder tilts and causes the sensor to hit the bed and drag through my prints.
The second problem is that the print bed is still not level even with the auto level turned on or off below is a picture with it off of a astrisk test print first layer.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2016 10:41PM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

So that's causing both of my problems the tilt of the extruder in the X and the plate un leveled in the y?

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zavala
I just got my rev b delta printer after Christmas and i got it all built and set up and i can get good dimensional prints in the middle of the plate.
But where i am having problems is getting the bed to level, i got the flatness or what ever it talks about in the configuration figured out
and i got the nozzle to pass the paper test under all three towers and in the middle.
The first problem is that when i move the extruder across the x axis the auto level sensor is lined up with it and at the outer edges the extruder tilts and causes the sensor to hit the bed and drag through my prints.
The second problem is that the print bed is still not level even with the auto level turned on or off below is a picture with it off of a astrisk test print first layer.

your gettting effector tilt.
I use a lot of filament chasing problems like that. What i do now is do a calibration then run the bed leveling gcode.
Once it finish i drop the nozzle to Z0 in the center and move it around the bed in pronterface. I use a light and check that the nozzle is equal all over the bed.
It beats wasting filament printing out parts that are going to error.

But yea it looks like your effector is tilting while moving.
Try to calibrate it manually without using the probe. Then once your done move the nozzle down to Z5 and move it around the bed just to see what is happening.
You could have an unlevel bed and uncalibrated printer.

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zavala
So that's causing both of my problems the tilt of the extruder in the X and the plate un leveled in the y?

It depends..
1. If you use your probe to level the bed - then yes.
2. If you use only paper test to calibrate your printer - you may need to adjust the tower angle, diagonal rod lenght per tower or horizontal radius per tower to level your bed. Dc42 calculator may help you in this case.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

PS: but it will not solve your tilt problem. To minimize effector tilt you have to make your rods as equal as possible. I did my rods using very accurate jig but I still have slight tilt. I dismounted the original probe mount completely because it's useless in real life scenario - slight tilt is always there.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2016 11:33PM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Ok thanks I just pulled the rods back off here is how I glued them together, I followed the rev b manual I guess I will try to pull them back apart they look close but I will measure them at work tomorrow as I don't have big enough calipers here at home.

Btw there is a chance that your aluminum bed is not flat I covered my aluminum bed with glass because by bed is bumpy enough to drive me and my probe crazy.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Also what is a good length for the rods I did 240mm as recommended in the manual.

Actually, the rev.B manual way to glue them is not so good - it's pretty easy to get every next rod shorter or longer in this case. It will work only if you have already glued two equal rods and glue another rods between them.

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zavala
Ok thanks I just pulled the rods back off here is how I glued them together, I followed the rev b manual I guess I will try to pull them back apart they look close but I will measure them at work tomorrow as I don't have big enough calipers here at home.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

After reading through the previous pages I see that others have found that 255mm rods work better and that they used thicker rods. Where is the best place to get the materials and what are the best materials to get to make these longer rods.

I tried the acetone to see if I could get my messed up 240 rods apart and I did not have any luck any other ideas to get these apart or should I just give up and make a new set.

ok so i have my FT kossel Rev B calibrated on XYZ... PID auto tuned the Bed... BUT when i try to PID atuo tune the nozzle, it wont go over 78C !!! i have a full 12.10VDC at the cartridge connector...

SUGGESTIONS ????

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Nophead Mendel90 Remixed in aluminum
Marlin v2.0
Matterhacker Control (latest)
Ramps 1.4
Sainsmart LCD
MK2B heatbed
E3dV6 hotend .4mm tip
1.75mm filaments
dedicated 12v33a psu
dedicated 12v5a laptop psu mod

This store has good prices [alofthobbies.com] on carbon fiber.
I buy from them my RC stuff.

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zavala
After reading through the previous pages I see that others have found that 255mm rods work better and that they used thicker rods. Where is the best place to get the materials and what are the best materials to get to make these longer rods.
.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2016 08:00AM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Thanks Paul,I'll have to give them a try what rod length and diameter do you recommend for the rev b. Model, and is there any chance you have a picture of how you built your jig.

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zavala
Thanks Paul,I'll have to give them a try what rod length and diameter do you recommend for the rev b. Model, and is there any chance you have a picture of how you built your jig.

I don't have much experience with diagonal rods beyond stock 5x3mm, but the next set I'm going to make 250mm long using 7x5mm rods. I plan to glue pieces of spare 5x3mm rod inside 7x5mm as adapters for 3M threaded rod.

I disassembled my jig, the construction was not so reliable, actually. It was simple block of wood with nails that keep 3M rods parallel with 230mm distance between them.
But now I plan to glue them one by one. I'm going to drill piece of wood using 2.8mm bit and glue two pieces of 3M rod, so it will look like this

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

I've been printing with that same pale green on my printer -- 185 temp, 5mm retraction works pretty good for me.

My heater plate had a little bow in it; I figured out it's geometry, and with a careful and studious use of my foot, and a copy of Bill Shatner's autobiography (hardcover), I was able to make it as flat as my cheap metal ruler and a bright light source could measure.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2016 06:20PM by Dav3xor.

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Dav3xor

My heater plate had a little bow in it; I figured out it's geometry, and with a careful and studious use of my foot, and a copy of Bill Shatner's autobiography (hardcover), I was able to make it as flat as my cheap metal ruler and a bright light source could measure.

LOL! Thanks for the laugh.

Minor question - did other people receive four pieces of plastic U-channel with their kits? They are about 7mm wide and 1.5' long (sorry for mixing units.. I don't have a long metric ruler). I just noticed them sitting in the box and the instructions don't make any mention of them. I am guessing they are for aesthetics (covering up wires that run in the slots of the aluminum extrusion) but just wanted to make sure they aren't for something else...?

Eric

I lowered my temp and adjusted my retraction settings, and now I'm getting really good prints, with no stringing at all. Thanks Paul Delta for all your help and suggestions!

I printed a fan shroud that splits the output between the heat sink and the part, and my hotend seems to be holding a much steadier temp. It was falling off due to the quick infill motions of my printer, so I drilled a couple holes in it, and wrapped a zip tie around the top of the heat sink to secure it. Good to go!

I'm still looking for a printable spool holder that works well with the revB extruder setup, as stock. Any suggestions would be appreciated.