Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

PS: also you can play with perimeter/infill overlap parameter in your slicer (slic3r and Sliplify3D have this option, don't know about Cura).

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

I'll look into adjusting those settings too. Thanks for the Help Paul

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paul_delta
PS: also you can play with perimeter/infill overlap parameter in your slicer (slic3r and Sliplify3D have this option, don't know about Cura).

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

Actually, I'm sure you can use this part as is. These gaps will not affect the performance. But check your extrusion width anyway and calibrate it for 2-3 speed values and write it down for future use.

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Captain_Tim
I will redo my extrusion width calibration. Then I'll reprint the part. It is still fairly solid though.

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paul_delta
Looks like underextrusion. Did you calibrate your extrusion with? If so, probably you did it at at much lower speed. Probably the speed was too high for this print.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 12:00PM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

For high speed printing I increase overlap sometimes to 50%-80%, but it depends on filament type, temperature, etc.

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paul_delta
PS: also you can play with perimeter/infill overlap parameter in your slicer (slic3r and Sliplify3D have this option, don't know about Cura).

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Yeah, Cura has infill overlap setting that, too. Its to be found under the "..." section of infill setting.

@Captain: Tbh you started with the correct upgrade. For me, having a zero x/y offset probe was one of the most important steps to get the printer working more reliably. Use dc42/Escher calculator to dial it in and you should be much better off.
2nd next big improvement for me: Glass bed on top of the aluminium. A bit of hairspray and you will have a lot less issues with the print not sticking to the bed. Also, the glass bed is "plainer" compared to the aluminium, which makes the results of dc42/Escher calculator more reliable.

About your print, I agree with paul: Dont sweat it, should work just fine. And it does look like under-extrusion. Maybe your filament diameter varies? Cheap filament? I had similar issues with Velleman brand filament (1.65 mm ... 1.78 mm diameter variation - abysmal print quality).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 12:23PM by docpayce.

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docpayce
Yeah, Cura has infill overlap setting that, too. Its to be found under the "..." section of infill setting.

@Captain: Tbh you started with the correct upgrade. For me, having a zero x/y offset probe was one of the most important steps to get the printer working more reliably. Use dc42/Escher calculator to dial it in and you should be much better off.
2nd next big improvement for me: Glass bed on top of the aluminium. A bit of hairspray and you will have a lot less issues with the print not sticking to the bed. Also, the glass bed is "plainer" compared to the aluminium, which makes the results of dc42/Escher calculator more reliable.

About your print, I agree with paul: Dont sweat it, should work just fine. And it does look like under-extrusion. Maybe your filament diameter varies? Cheap filament? I had similar issues with Velleman brand filament (1.65 mm ... 1.78 mm diameter variation - abysmal print quality).

What size glass would I get, 200mm? I'm looking into getting a glass plate soon, as the aluminum seems to have about a .1 - .2mm height difference from one side to another. Perhaps it's just endstop offset settings, but I've run through dc42's calculator quite a few times and it always seems to be very close to 0 on the X/Z side of the plate, but the X/Y side seems to always need more changes to the offsets.

As far as the filament I'm using, it's Hatchbox Green PLA. Hatchbox seems to be a pretty good medium range filament from what I've observed. It's better than the filament I bought from ToyBuilderLabs (even though that filament isn't to bad in my opinion.)

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

Is a glass plate really worth it? I've been pretty happy with my aluminum plate... I just put some blue tape on it and everything sticks like crazy and the bed heats up quickly. I have noticed I don't even have to be careful with the tape -- it gets cut or scratched, but until it starts looking like swiss cheese I still get good adhesion and a smooth bottom surface. And when it *does* look like swiss cheese, I just rip off the offending pieces and put new ones down.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 01:08PM by spiffcow.

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spiffcow
Is a glass plate really worth it? I've been pretty happy with my aluminum plate... I just put some blue tape on it and everything sticks like crazy and the bed heats up quickly. I have noticed I don't even have to be careful with the tape -- it gets cut or scratched, but until it starts looking like swiss cheese I still get good adhesion and a smooth bottom surface. And when it *does* look like swiss cheese, I just rip off the offending pieces and put new ones down.

I have great adhesion with my aluminum bed as well, but it's just got imperfections in it causing half of the bed to be lower than the other. So larger prints would be hard to print.

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

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Captain_Tim

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spiffcow
Is a glass plate really worth it? I've been pretty happy with my aluminum plate... I just put some blue tape on it and everything sticks like crazy and the bed heats up quickly. I have noticed I don't even have to be careful with the tape -- it gets cut or scratched, but until it starts looking like swiss cheese I still get good adhesion and a smooth bottom surface. And when it *does* look like swiss cheese, I just rip off the offending pieces and put new ones down.

I have great adhesion with my aluminum bed as well, but it's just got imperfections in it causing half of the bed to be lower than the other. So larger prints would be hard to print.

What firmware are you on? Repetier supports bump-mapped Z correction, which mitigates the unevenness by quite a bit. The surface in contact with the bed might be off slightly, but the print head will always be the same distance above the bed.

I'm not saying it's a bad investment (I honestly have no idea if it is or not), but it's pretty far down the list of things I would change about this kit.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 02:36PM by spiffcow.

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spiffcow
What firmware are you on? Repetier supports bump-mapped Z correction, which mitigates the unevenness by quite a bit. The surface in contact with the bed might be off slightly, but the print head will always be the same distance above the bed.

I'm using Repetier... That sounds just like what I need, do you have a link by chance?

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

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Captain_Tim

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spiffcow
What firmware are you on? Repetier supports bump-mapped Z correction, which mitigates the unevenness by quite a bit. The surface in contact with the bed might be off slightly, but the print head will always be the same distance above the bed.

I'm using Repetier... That sounds just like what I need, do you have a link by chance?

[www.repetier.com]

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spiffcow

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Captain_Tim

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spiffcow
What firmware are you on? Repetier supports bump-mapped Z correction, which mitigates the unevenness by quite a bit. The surface in contact with the bed might be off slightly, but the print head will always be the same distance above the bed.

I'm using Repetier... That sounds just like what I need, do you have a link by chance?

[www.repetier.com]

Thanks, when I get home from work, I'll check this out and hopefully I can smooth out the bed.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 02:42PM by Captain_Tim.

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

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Captain_Tim

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spiffcow

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Captain_Tim

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spiffcow
What firmware are you on? Repetier supports bump-mapped Z correction, which mitigates the unevenness by quite a bit. The surface in contact with the bed might be off slightly, but the print head will always be the same distance above the bed.

I'm using Repetier... That sounds just like what I need, do you have a link by chance?

[www.repetier.com]

Thanks, when I get home from work, I'll check this out and hopefully I can smooth out the bed.

You'll need 0.92.8 to use this feature IIRC. I installed the latest version, and it looks like in the latest version they have fixed their bed correction to normalize at (0,0) and give you the output at G33 commands, so my app is no longer needed for migrating the data when you change z height.

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spiffcow
You'll need 0.92.8 to use this feature IIRC. I installed the latest version, and it looks like in the latest version they have fixed their bed correction to normalize at (0,0) and give you the output at G33 commands, so my app is no longer needed for migrating the data when you change z height.

Is converting from 0.92.6 to 0.92.8 just a matter of flashing the board and re-entering the previously stored EEPROM values?

Have you had any issues with 0.92.8, or is it pretty stable?

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

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Captain_Tim

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spiffcow
You'll need 0.92.8 to use this feature IIRC. I installed the latest version, and it looks like in the latest version they have fixed their bed correction to normalize at (0,0) and give you the output at G33 commands, so my app is no longer needed for migrating the data when you change z height.

Is converting from 0.92.6 to 0.92.8 just a matter of flashing the board and re-entering the previously stored EEPROM values?

Have you had any issues with 0.92.8, or is it pretty stable?

In theory you can import your config with their web tool. In practice, you'll need to recreate your config based on your current settings. I wouldn't count on being able to import the EEPROM values, so make sure to use your latest values when creating the new config.

I had a number of issues with the previous version. They're still calling it 0.92.8, but it looks like they've fixed most of what has been bugging me about the previous 0.92.8 release. They really should increase the version number when they release a new version..

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spiffcow

In theory you can import your config with their web tool. In practice, you'll need to recreate your config based on your current settings. I wouldn't count on being able to import the EEPROM values, so make sure to use your latest values when creating the new config.

I had a number of issues with the previous version. They're still calling it 0.92.8, but it looks like they've fixed most of what has been bugging me about the previous 0.92.8 release. They really should increase the version number when they release a new version..

That would be a good practice.

So you just used their website to configure it? Perfect. Perhaps I'll try an update tonight/this weekend.

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

Just as an FYI for those of you out there not running Repetier, I'm now using Craftware as my slicer/gcode engine.... It's pretty smexy and highly configurable, way better than pronterface. Allows for custom support placement, live update previews of changes you're making to the code (shells, infill, layer height, etc.). Has every option for customizing your printing.

Craftware

That looks like some pretty good software. Why didn't you recommend it to those who use Repetier? If you don't mind me inquiring.

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Legrand
Just as an FYI for those of you out there not running Repetier, I'm now using Craftware as my slicer/gcode engine.... It's pretty smexy and highly configurable, way better than pronterface. Allows for custom support placement, live update previews of changes you're making to the code (shells, infill, layer height, etc.). Has every option for customizing your printing.

Craftware

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

I don't know much about Repetier at all as I can't get it to install on my computer, but what I've heard from reading the posts here is that it might get used for updating the firmware? If so, then this can't do that. It's just a slicer/gcode creation program that's pretty user friendly.

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Captain_Tim
That looks like some pretty good software. Why didn't you recommend it to those who use Repetier? If you don't mind me inquiring.

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Legrand
Just as an FYI for those of you out there not running Repetier, I'm now using Craftware as my slicer/gcode engine.... It's pretty smexy and highly configurable, way better than pronterface. Allows for custom support placement, live update previews of changes you're making to the code (shells, infill, layer height, etc.). Has every option for customizing your printing.

Craftware

It's used to update the EEPROM settings of the firmware. I noticed though that Craftware is still in beta, so they may add it in later on down the development road.

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Legrand
I don't know much about Repetier at all as I can't get it to install on my computer, but what I've heard from reading the posts here is that it might get used for updating the firmware? If so, then this can't do that. It's just a slicer/gcode creation program that's pretty user friendly.

Quote
Captain_Tim
That looks like some pretty good software. Why didn't you recommend it to those who use Repetier? If you don't mind me inquiring.

Quote
Legrand
Just as an FYI for those of you out there not running Repetier, I'm now using Craftware as my slicer/gcode engine.... It's pretty smexy and highly configurable, way better than pronterface. Allows for custom support placement, live update previews of changes you're making to the code (shells, infill, layer height, etc.). Has every option for customizing your printing.

Craftware

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

@Captain_Tim and spiffcow: Whatever sticks. ;D I didn't have as much luck as you guys with my aluminium bed. Glass bed has some advantages and disadvantages to my experience: Bad: Heats up WAY slower, reaches ~ 105°C max. Good: Waaay more plain compared to my aluminium bed, which makes the job of dc42's calculator quite a bit easier. And sturdy as hell. Cannot scratch it a bit.

I use hairspray method. But if blue tape works, imho stick with it (pun intended). I got a 220 mm diameter glass bed of aliexpress for 15 bucks. For that to fit I had to countersink the screw holes in my aluminium bed.

Just a remark on bump map: Yes, it does work *to some extent*. It will help to overcome deviations of +/- 0.2 mm, but not so much more. If you still run into problems, try to increase the height until which the correction is active (DISTORTION_END_HEIGHT). At 2 mm, that worked out quite well for me.

I've tried all sorts of bed solutions:

ABS slurry: Stinks to high heaven, PITA to get off the remnants, didn't like at all.

Glass bed: Doesn't conform to the heat bed, so possible air gaps which will slow down heating. Prints stuck OK. Didn't like that I had to clip on and off all the time. Nozzle head hit clips sometimes on large prints.

Blue painters tape:
3DXTech brand: was sent a 100mm (~4") wide roll for free after buying a bunch of filament from them. Stuck like crazy for PLA to the extent that I couldn't get it off of the print.
3M Blue tape: Second most favorite surface. PLA sticks great, sometimes too well. Leaves "bumpy", matte finish on print.

Polyimide tape: Most favorite surface. What I use all the time with ABS/PLA/PETG (basically everything I print). It can be a PITA to get on the bed (I use the 200mm wide stuff from Folger) but once it's on, it lasts forever unless you gouge it up with your nozzle. Prints will just pop off, especially if the bed cools down.

Tricks: To get on, unroll enough for bed (you might have to stick a little on the bed so it doesn't get stuck to itself), spray the bed and the sticky side of the tape with water. Carefully lay it down from one edge to the next using a squeegee (I use a credit card) to push out the bubbles. Since the bubbles are water and not air, they will be easier to push out. Leaves a smooth, glossy finish on print.
Also, when you go to print, heat the bed to a minimum of 40-50°C and clean with a liberal amount of isopropyl alcohol.

The only downside I have with the Polyimide tape is that I sometimes I have to use a skirt on the black filament I have as the corners might curl.

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docpayce
@Captain_Tim and spiffcow: Whatever sticks. ;D I didn't have as much luck as you guys with my aluminium bed. Glass bed has some advantages and disadvantages to my experience: Bad: Heats up WAY slower, reaches ~ 105°C max. Good: Waaay more plain compared to my aluminium bed, which makes the job of dc42's calculator quite a bit easier. And sturdy as hell. Cannot scratch it a bit.

I use hairspray method. But if blue tape works, imho stick with it (pun intended). I got a 220 mm diameter glass bed of aliexpress for 15 bucks. For that to fit I had to countersink the screw holes in my aluminium bed.

Just a remark on bump map: Yes, it does work *to some extent*. It will help to overcome deviations of +/- 0.2 mm, but not so much more. If you still run into problems, try to increase the height until which the correction is active (DISTORTION_END_HEIGHT). At 2 mm, that worked out quite well for me.

Quote
Legrand
I've tried all sorts of bed solutions:

ABS slurry: Stinks to high heaven, PITA to get off the remnants, didn't like at all.

Glass bed: Doesn't conform to the heat bed, so possible air gaps which will slow down heating. Prints stuck OK. Didn't like that I had to clip on and off all the time. Nozzle head hit clips sometimes on large prints.

Blue painters tape:
3DXTech brand: was sent a 100mm (~4") wide roll for free after buying a bunch of filament from them. Stuck like crazy for PLA to the extent that I couldn't get it off of the print.
3M Blue tape: Second most favorite surface. PLA sticks great, sometimes too well. Leaves "bumpy", matte finish on print.

Polyimide tape: Most favorite surface. What I use all the time with ABS/PLA/PETG (basically everything I print). It can be a PITA to get on the bed (I use the 200mm wide stuff from Folger) but once it's on, it lasts forever unless you gouge it up with your nozzle. Prints will just pop off, especially if the bed cools down.

Tricks: To get on, unroll enough for bed (you might have to stick a little on the bed so it doesn't get stuck to itself), spray the bed and the sticky side of the tape with water. Carefully lay it down from one edge to the next using a squeegee (I use a credit card) to push out the bubbles. Since the bubbles are water and not air, they will be easier to push out. Leaves a smooth, glossy finish on print.
Also, when you go to print, heat the bed to a minimum of 40-50°C and clean with a liberal amount of isopropyl alcohol.

The only downside I have with the Polyimide tape is that I sometimes I have to use a skirt on the black filament I have as the corners might curl.

Quote
docpayce
@Captain_Tim and spiffcow: Whatever sticks. ;D I didn't have as much luck as you guys with my aluminium bed. Glass bed has some advantages and disadvantages to my experience: Bad: Heats up WAY slower, reaches ~ 105°C max. Good: Waaay more plain compared to my aluminium bed, which makes the job of dc42's calculator quite a bit easier. And sturdy as hell. Cannot scratch it a bit.

I use hairspray method. But if blue tape works, imho stick with it (pun intended). I got a 220 mm diameter glass bed of aliexpress for 15 bucks. For that to fit I had to countersink the screw holes in my aluminium bed.

Just a remark on bump map: Yes, it does work *to some extent*. It will help to overcome deviations of +/- 0.2 mm, but not so much more. If you still run into problems, try to increase the height until which the correction is active (DISTORTION_END_HEIGHT). At 2 mm, that worked out quite well for me.

The Replicator clone I bought from Monoprice (and returned after a week) came with a BuildTak sheet that worked pretty well -- I was able to print PETG on an unheated bed. The problem was that, once it was too torn up to continue using, I couldn't get the damn thing off the bed. I think I might try it again, but this time just clip it to the bed.

Erm... clip the glass bed on and off all the time? ... why? I have the glass bed on all the time - with 6 clips to accomodate for any gaps in between heated aluminium bed and glass bed. For the nozzle head hits clips problem: Use picture frame clips instead of paper clips. Much smaller. no hitting the head nor the z probe.

Will try the Polyimide tape. So many people swear on that stuff.

Well, thats right on time and topic: Review commercial build plate coatings


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2016 02:51PM by docpayce.

so how do i incorporate the settings for my 2020 folger tech kossel into paul_delta's repetier firmware? there are probably more, however those are the ones i am stuck at as of now.

From the folger tech:

//===========================================================================
//============================== Delta Settings =============================
//===========================================================================
// Enable DELTA kinematics
#define DELTA

// Make delta curves from many straight lines (linear interpolation).
// This is a trade-off between visible corners (not enough segments)
// and processor overload (too many expensive sqrt calls).
#define DELTA_SEGMENTS_PER_SECOND 200

// Center-to-center distance of the holes in the diagonal push rods.
#define DELTA_DIAGONAL_ROD 240 // mm (215)

// Horizontal offset from middle of printer to smooth rod center.
#define DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET 189// mm (137.0 187)

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on the end effector.
#define DELTA_EFFECTOR_OFFSET 25// mm (19.9)

// Horizontal offset of the universal joints on the carriages.
#define DELTA_CARRIAGE_OFFSET 20 // mm (19.5)

// Effective horizontal distance bridged by diagonal push rods.
#define DELTA_RADIUS (DELTA_SMOOTH_ROD_OFFSET-DELTA_EFFECTOR_OFFSET-DELTA_CARRIAGE_OFFSET)

// Effective X/Y positions of the three vertical towers.
#define SIN_60 0.8660254037844386
#define COS_60 0.5
#define DELTA_TOWER1_X -SIN_60*DELTA_RADIUS // front left tower
#define DELTA_TOWER1_Y -COS_60*DELTA_RADIUS
#define DELTA_TOWER2_X SIN_60*DELTA_RADIUS // front right tower
#define DELTA_TOWER2_Y -COS_60*DELTA_RADIUS
#define DELTA_TOWER3_X 0.0 // back middle tower
#define DELTA_TOWER3_Y DELTA_RADIUS

// Diagonal rod squared
#define DELTA_DIAGONAL_ROD_2 pow(DELTA_DIAGONAL_ROD,2)


-----------------into the repetier----------------

// Delta settings
#define DELTA_DIAGONAL_ROD 240 // mm
#define DELTA_ALPHA_A 210
#define DELTA_ALPHA_B 330
#define DELTA_ALPHA_C 90
#define DELTA_RADIUS_CORRECTION_A 0
#define DELTA_RADIUS_CORRECTION_B 0
#define DELTA_RADIUS_CORRECTION_C 0
#define DELTA_DIAGONAL_CORRECTION_A 0
#define DELTA_DIAGONAL_CORRECTION_B 0
#define DELTA_DIAGONAL_CORRECTION_C 0
#define END_EFFECTOR_HORIZONTAL_OFFSET 0
#define CARRIAGE_HORIZONTAL_OFFSET 0
#define DELTA_MAX_RADIUS 90
#define ROD_RADIUS 147.4
#define PRINTER_RADIUS 147.4
#define DELTA_HOME_ON_POWER 0
#define STEP_COUNTER
#define DELTA_X_ENDSTOP_OFFSET_STEPS 0
#define DELTA_Y_ENDSTOP_OFFSET_STEPS 0
#define DELTA_Z_ENDSTOP_OFFSET_STEPS 0
#define DELTA_FLOOR_SAFETY_MARGIN_MM 5

@Professor:
Looks fine to me, honestly. I would still suggest to use the GUI to set your configuration.h up: http://www.repetier.com/firmware/v092/
It's just so helpful. Look out though: If you changed variables manually using Arduino GUI, you may have to re-type them in the firmware tool.

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docpayce
@Professor:
Looks fine to me, honestly. I would still suggest to use the GUI to set your configuration.h up: http://www.repetier.com/firmware/v092/
It's just so helpful. Look out though: If you changed variables manually using Arduino GUI, you may have to re-type them in the firmware tool.

lol i keep trying to use the gui on repetier's website however i seem to have been bitten by the "stupid bug" and i have no idea what values to enter in past the initial measurements, or what boxes to check or what to include or not include...

i was going to use "paul_delta"'s repetier firmware however when i compile it and get ready to upload it, it says the firmware is using too much memory(EDIT: too much memory in the printer) and that may cause errors, can i safely ignore this error message?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2016 10:42PM by ProfessorBean.

If you got more than 900 bytes left, yes, ignore. If it gets less than 900 bytes, you should start to worry.