Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

Been getting amazing smaller prints and tried something bigger but was having issues so I adjusted endstops. Passes the paper test at all towers and center. When I move the nozzle from Y tower to Z tower, it drags the paper the whole time and same as Z to X. When I move from x to y, it does not touch the paper except for the start and stop points. This isn't delta radius is it? I'll also note I have a glass bed and do not use the probe.

You need to adjust the tower position corrections. You may find my calibration calculator at [escher3d.com] useful.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I've run a bed bump map successfully a couple of times, it ran just like in the youtube videos. Finally, I decided to attempt to import the corrections, but now on the last few attempts to run, it aborted and crashed repetier before completing. The program ran excruciationly slow before crashing midway through the scan. Not sure what's changed, or more likely what I'm doing/not doing that might cause repetier to crash. Running the current 1.65 repetier host and 92.8 with paul delta's slightly modified firmware config, (horizontal rod radius, endstop correction, Z height and his excellent 0 offset Zprobe). Calibrated with paper test and g29 3 point probing, which seems to work properly. I have successfully (mostly) printed numerous calibration cubes up to to 40 mm (off by +0.2 mm )so I don't think any printer parameters are way off. Oh, and using on windows 7 64 bit if it matters. Thanks.

Kossel 2020 Rev B.
When building the upper assembly, the aluminum corners have a hex nut hole cut into one side. In the finished assembly, it is not clear to me if this hex nut hole should point up towards the ceiling or down toward the print plate. Will someone please answer this. Thank you in advance.

Is it the one for the tensioner bolt?

Like in the picture I attached, the nut is on the bottom and a bolt goes through the vertex, with a washer on it. It's used to adjust the belt tension.

@FA-MAS: It *was* used to adjust belt tension.

But yes, put the hex nut on the bottom, fredw. Don'tw worry about belt tensioning, thats done manually (just pull the triangle upwards with some force while tightening the screw).

@Gingerbreadman: I dont understand what you mean by importing corrections? Do you refer to a G30 command running slow? Or do you refer to Repetier host height map? If the latter - its kinda jerky. You will want to go sure that Repetier host software finished every command (none in the buffer) and knows the actual position (i.e. dont open the height map window until everything has stopped moving and is at its place).
Other than that... have you tried to switch it off an on again? ... jk, sorry.

Yes, I see now. It is for the tensioner bolt. Thank you FA-MAS.
Also, thank you docpayce, maybe I won't need it. Glad to know what it is.I am learning a lot about 3D printers as I build this one.I hope to finish it in a couple of weeks.

Murphy strikes. I'm currently running a series of decent prints, no serious issues. Then out of the blue, when I go to print the effector drops to the bed while moving off center towards a tower base and crashes into the bed. I tried resetting repetier host, and turning the printer on and off to no avail. Using repetier host v1.61, firmware 92.8 ,slicer3.

OK weird , I switched to Cura and it is printing correctly. Is my version of slic3r corrupted?

Just tried this, downloaded an updated version of Slic3r 1.2.9; used their configuration wizard hoping to clear any misconfigurations, but it still exhibits the weird "off center bed crashing" behavior noted above. Switched back to Cura and it prints as expected.

Could there be a setting in Slic3r that would persist though a download? Or is it that there a misconfiguration in my firmware that Cura ignores and Slic3r doesn't? Or as likely, are my ideas way off base ?

Solved. Slic3r was corrupted, new download fixed it.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2016 04:20PM by Gingerbreadman.

Hello,

I'm a 3d printing newbie from France, and since I'm don't have a lot of money, I was looking at this FolgerTech kit, which is cheap.

So, I understand that the quality control isn't the best argument of FT, but the printer, once calibrated seem to produce beautiful pieces of plastic !

I just have one question about the build volume of this printer. The FT site says 210mm diameter and 310mm height, but after reading all 104 pages of this topic, it seems like the reality is more about 170mm diameter and 240mm height, which is a lot smaller !

So, did FT recently update their kit for bigger prints, or is there an "error" on their website ?

I'm also looking at the kits from this site [builda3dprinter.eu]. They're less cheap, but the quality seem to be better, and maybe the final cost will not be so different, what do you think ?

Thank you for your advices

Joris

Joris, I've really been pleased with my Folger tech build, and very happy I went with a delta. I can't speak to the Sintron since my experience is so limited but I can say that my Folger rev.b has been a solid build so far.
Build size exaggeration seems to be the norm. I over obsessed about size when I first started. I have since come to realize it will take quite some time to master the print volume I have. By the time that happens, I will likely be ready for new maybe bigger machine.
The best thing about the Folger Tech for me, a rank amateur, has been this forum. So whatever style, brand or quality machine you decide to build make sure there is an comparable resource for it. Good luck with your choice.

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docpayce

@Gingerbreadman: I dont understand what you mean by importing corrections? Do you refer to a G30 command running slow? Or do you refer to Repetier host height map? If the latter - its kinda jerky. You will want to go sure that Repetier host software finished every command (none in the buffer) and knows the actual position (i.e. dont open the height map window until everything has stopped moving and is at its place).
Other than that... have you tried to switch it off an on again? ... jk, sorry.

Yes thanks, the host height map. Tried a clean attempt with reset as you suggested but it was a no go. I suspect I have a firmware setting that is glitching the height mapping up.

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Zoolander06
I just have one question about the build volume of this printer. The FT site says 210mm diameter and 310mm height, but after reading all 104 pages of this topic, it seems like the reality is more about 170mm diameter and 240mm height, which is a lot smaller !

The print bed is around 210 - but since mounting screws sit above the surface of the bed you're limited in printable radius to the area between the bolts at Z0 to about 2mm in height. In theory, you could print at the full radius as long as the footprint of your model and printer head movement doesn't coincide with any of the mount points, at least for the first couple mm of height.

As for height, that depends a bit on if you leave any 2020 above your top triangle, how much room below the triangle you leave before your endstops, how long your diagonal rods are, etc. Any of these could be reduced to give you more print height, but less wiggle room for making corrections further down the line if you need to (and of course, changing the length of your diagonal rods change your print fidelity, especially at the edges of your printable radius).

@Zoolander06:
If you are completely new to 3D printing, I would honestly suggest to go with a I3 Prusa design. They are comparable cheap and HECK a lot easier to set up.
Don't get me wrong: FT Kossel was my first printer and I learnt a LOT with this route. But the learning curve is very, very steep and partly frustrating. From finishing the build (1 week) to *reliable* printing it took approximately a month and a half. And my printer is still not "finished" as I want to redo a few parts which I screwed up when building it (the carbon rods). My point is, I would say that there is as much to learn about 3D printing as there is to learn about Delta kinematics. I.e. I would suggest to split the learning up into two parts and go with the easier-to-handle (cartesian kinematic) design as a first printer. With that, you may even try to print your next (Delta) printer parts...

If you want to stick to the Delta route, *BECAUSE* you want to learn a LOT, yes, the FT Kossel is a nice kit. I get 240 mm height (barely) and 160 mm diameter (will be a little bit more with new rods).
Builda3Dprinter: If you refer to the Kossel Mini kit: Kossel mini is very, very common, too. But the frame motor mounts seem to be made out of plastic (FT: aluminium), which I dont trust too much.

@Zoolander06,

Delta printers have traditionally been hard to calibrate. About a year ago I implemented least squares auto calibration in the firmware that runs on Duet electronics, which means that if you have a delta printer with a good Z probe, calibration is quick and easy. As far as I know, there have been only two kits produced that make use of this. The RepRapPro Fisher was one, but sadly RepRapPro ceased trading at the end of last year. The other is the Think3DPrint3D Mini Kossel, which is available from T3P3's web site. They have a larger Kossel kit in preparation.

The other factor that helps make delta printers easy to set up is good quality parts. The T3P3 parts are of excellent quality, whereas many of the Chinese kits have low quality parts.

So my advice is that if you want a delta as your first printer and you don't want too much hassle getting it to print well, go for the T3P3 kit. You can upgrade the size later if you want, using many of the same components - which is what I did (see the link in my signature for what it has turned into). If you want a larger print area than the Mini Kossel has straight away, or if your budget won't run to the T3P3 kit, then you are probably better off with a Prusa i3 kit because they are more forgiving of poor quality parts and budget electronics.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

If I was to do it over again and lived in Europe I would probably order this:[smartfriendz.com]

Your first printer is always going to be inadequate in some way. I love my FT Kossel but I'm building a large corexy from scratch and enjoying the ability to source parts depending on where I see the need for quality vs price.

Hello,

Thank you all for your advices !

A lot of people told me about the Prusa I3, but I have to say that I kind of dislike this design. I know it's efficient, and easy for the newbies, but I don't like moving Y axis... And maybe I'm an outsider, I don't like the easy way

So my choice is not definitive, but for now, I prefer deltas... I think I'm capable of setting it up, even after reading a lot of testimonies about how it can be a PITA But I have to say the smartrapcore seems nice, and it's a local product, that's a +1, thank you spiffcow ! I will check to the T3P3 site too !

And if my first try is a success, I already have a big size corexy design in my bookmarks (the 3C-bot, based on openbuild extrusions)

Thank you all again !

PS : excuse me if my english is not always good, I try to be comprehensible, but sometimes, I fail ^^

Joris

Same here. These cartesian epileptic moving tables drive me crazy

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Zoolander06
A lot of people told me about the Prusa I3, but I have to say that I kind of dislike this design. I know it's efficient, and easy for the newbies, but I don't like moving Y axis... And maybe I'm an outsider, I don't like the easy way

So my choice is not definitive, but for now, I prefer deltas... I think I'm capable of setting it up, even after reading a lot of testimonies about how it can be a PITA But I have to say the smartrapcore seems nice, and it's a local product, that's a +1, thank you spiffcow ! I will check to the T3P3 site too !

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

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Zoolander06
Hello,

Thank you all for your advices !

A lot of people told me about the Prusa I3, but I have to say that I kind of dislike this design. I know it's efficient, and easy for the newbies, but I don't like moving Y axis... And maybe I'm an outsider, I don't like the easy way

So my choice is not definitive, but for now, I prefer deltas... I think I'm capable of setting it up, even after reading a lot of testimonies about how it can be a PITA But I have to say the smartrapcore seems nice, and it's a local product, that's a +1, thank you spiffcow ! I will check to the T3P3 site too !

And if my first try is a success, I already have a big size corexy design in my bookmarks (the 3C-bot, based on openbuild extrusions)

Thank you all again !

PS : excuse me if my english is not always good, I try to be comprehensible, but sometimes, I fail ^^

Joris

Nice! I hope it works out whatever you decide. You just missed a big sale they had where you could have gotten the larger SmartRapCore for roughly the same price, but honestly I wouldn't trust 2020 to be rigid enough for a 300mm cube build volume.

The CoreXY I'm building is a C-Bot Rework, so your target and mine are close relatives C-Bot is actually an active project now with various configurations, including the 3 lead screw option. I would encourage you to look into the main project as the community is pretty active. D-Bot is a more popular derivative and has better instructions, though most D-Bot builds tend not to deviate from instructions. It'll be interesting to see where the community goes from here.

Also another option -- source the Kossel parts yourself. The parts are being mass produced at this point, and you can probably get high quality metal parts off ebay or aliexpress pretty cheap.

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spiffcow
Nice! I hope it works out whatever you decide. You just missed a big sale they had where you could have gotten the larger SmartRapCore for roughly the same price, but honestly I wouldn't trust 2020 to be rigid enough for a 300mm cube build volume.

I think the same way about this design, it doesn't seems to be stiff...

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spiffcow
The CoreXY I'm building is a C-Bot Rework, so your target and mine are close relatives C-Bot is actually an active project now with various configurations, including the 3 lead screw option. I would encourage you to look into the main project as the community is pretty active. D-Bot is a more popular derivative and has better instructions, though most D-Bot builds tend not to deviate from instructions. It'll be interesting to see where the community goes from here.

I went to the 3C-Bot from the original C-Bot, but I didn't like the cantilevered table, and the triple lead screw is an elegant solution, I think. Plus, I heard about one of my french fellow who made a nice auto leveling system with a triple lead screw setup (on another type of printer), but it's off the topic ^^

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spiffcow
Also another option -- source the Kossel parts yourself. The parts are being mass produced at this point, and you can probably get high quality metal parts off ebay or aliexpress pretty cheap.

I'm not sure about self sourcing, since I'm not experimented with building of 3D printer, I know I will forgot a lot of things, and for the first, I'd prefer to get a kit as complete as possible

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spiffcow

Nice! I hope it works out whatever you decide. You just missed a big sale they had where you could have gotten the larger SmartRapCore for roughly the same price, but honestly I wouldn't trust 2020 to be rigid enough for a 300mm cube build volume.

I actually took one of the FT Kossel Deltas and scaled it up to 300mm. It prints just fine and is plenty rigid.

Do you guys know how to hook up a 3 pin fan? I tried to connect the wires to the PSU, but I didn't get anything. The wires are Red, Black, Yellow.

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

Red is +
Black is -
Yellow is tachometer (not used if just powering the fan)

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stephenrc
Red is +
Black is -
Yellow is tachometer (not used if just powering the fan)

That was I thought. When I touched the wires to the PSU terminal, it didn't power the fan on, perhaps I just didn't have good contact. Thanks

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

Should the cooling fan for the prints be connected to the RAMPS board, or should it just be always on and connected to the PSU. If it should be connected to the RAMPS board, anyone know which pinit gets connected to for Paul's Repetier FW?

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

In my 0.92.6configuration only hotend fan connected to RAMPS pin 9 (ORIG_FAN_PIN). This way firmware turns the fan only if hotend temperature greater than EXTRUDER_FAN_COOL_TEMP. You can re-configure your setup and run hotend fan directly from PSU (always On) and use 9 pin for filament fan. In this case you can use slicer commands to turn fan on/off when needed (depending on layer height for example) and change fan speed.

Update: you will need to change Configuration.h and pins.h to let firmware know how to operate the cooler.

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Captain_Tim
Should the cooling fan for the prints be connected to the RAMPS board, or should it just be always on and connected to the PSU. If it should be connected to the RAMPS board, anyone know which pinit gets connected to for Paul's Repetier FW?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2016 07:33PM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

PS: if you want to manage both fans using firmware commands, you can fuy RAPMS fan extender for $5-6.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Thanks for the reply Paul. It's greatly appreciated.

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paul_delta
In my 0.92.6configuration only hotend fan connected to RAMPS pin 9 (ORIG_FAN_PIN). This way firmware turns the fan only if hotend temperature greater than EXTRUDER_FAN_COOL_TEMP. You can re-configure your setup and run hotend fan directly from PSU (always On) and use 9 pin for filament fan. In this case you can use slicer commands to turn fan on/off when needed (depending on layer height for example) and change fan speed.

Update: you will need to change Configuration.h and pins.h to let firmware know how to operate the cooler.

Quote
Captain_Tim
Should the cooling fan for the prints be connected to the RAMPS board, or should it just be always on and connected to the PSU. If it should be connected to the RAMPS board, anyone know which pinit gets connected to for Paul's Repetier FW?

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

So last night I set up an airstruder (basically suspending the extruder above the print head and using a ~6 inch bowden tube). I'm still recalibrating, but I have to say the results so far have been amazing, and it was probably the one of the easiest mods I've done to my kossel. My only complaint is that the effector drops after the motors disengage. Has anyone else tried this out? Have you seen any significant downsides to it?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2016 02:22PM by spiffcow.

Did you try >90mm/s printing? I think the whole assembly will have too much inertia to get adequate quality for high sped.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

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paul_delta
Did you try >90mm/s printing? I think the whole assembly will have too much inertia to get adequate quality for high sped.

I have not.. I have been using PETG for the last month or so, and high speed printing with that stuff is a bad idea. I'm almost out though, so I'll switch to PLA and give it a try .

I have been impressed as to the relatively low amount of backlash though. The motor is hanging in the air on springs and really doesn't move very much -- it just seems to rotate slightly and bounce around a little. Looking at the prints so far I actually see much cleaner edges, but there are multiple factors in play and so I can't really say why that would be the case.

My motors are definitely working harder than they used to though. I'm going to try replacing the XYZ motors for some 72 oz/in motors and use one (or two?!) of the old motors for the extruder. Hopefully 38 oz/in is enough to drive an almost-direct drive extruder. Worst case scenario I just buy an extra extruder motor and switch off depending on the use case.